KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

Okay Im having a hard time choosing my amp and sub..
And I'm also not a audio guru to say the least, but I do know a little something.
Im on a very tight budget first and foremost.

I'm getting a 5 channel amp, to run all 4 door speakers and my sub.

My first choice was a Kicker ZX700.5 and RMS power on the 5th channel was about 420-450RMS @ 2 Ohms

secondly was a
Crunch P5000.5 5th channel pushing 250 RMS @ 2 Ohms
the other 4 channels are basically identical for both Amps as they will be powering my JL audio 5 1/4 speakers

I had decided to go for a Solobaric L7 8 inch because it fits the range that the Kicker amp was pushing... The 8 inch solobaric pushes about 450 RMS...
I had already purchased a sealed box... about 11 X 11 inches

My friend also purchased the same sealed box that I did. and Purchased the solobaric L5 (pushing 300W RMS) because he was using a weaker amp to power it.

We looked in the owners manual and saw that in a sealed box the smallest sealed box would recommend 180 RMS we did NOT see these specs on the Kicker website....

So now, I went back onto the kicker website and looked for the owners manual PDF file for solobaric L7 it says

Minimum Enclosure Volume for Sealed Enclosure
.33 ft3 (9.34L) Power Handling = 200W RMS

so should I stick to the Kicker amp I was originally going to get (Pushing 450 RMS)? or should I get the Crunch amp that would put less power to the sub (250 RMS)?
Does it matter at all?

Spyder78

iTrader: (7)

the more power on tap the more you can push to the sub. Buying an amp that has more power is good because you can reuse the amp in the future. Any reason why you are going with Kicker, IMHO I dont like the way they sound. What are you doing for your interior speakers?

KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

Well I always heard that overpowering the sub is good but I dont wanna blow the sub because the book is talking about 200 RMS for the minimum sealed box. the sealed box I picked up is pretty small probably near the minimum.

the kicker amp would easily be pushing over double the recommended power
The crunch will be pushing 250 RMS but Ive always heard Kicker subs can take a beating past their rated power

But anyway Im going with Kicker because I had a 12 Inch L7 in my old LS400 powered by a Rockford Fosgate old school 1001bd amp.

Im telling you that thing hit hard as hell but Im having a kid soon, so the days of a 12 inch solobaric are over.

And for my interior door speakers I bought a WHOLE setup from another member on here JL 5.25 full range in the back and 5.25 components in the front
I think they can go about 60 W RMS @ 4 Ohms

So when a friend suggest that I do a 5 Channel amp because Im not going to try to sound too bassy anymore and it can take care of all my speakers and sub, I said hey why not.

Spyder78

iTrader: (7)

What is the box spec? U only wrote 2 measurements need 3 to figure out the internal volume. Have you subtracted the volume that the sub eats away from the total volume of your box? You shouldnt have any issues throwing extra power to the kicker, since you are only talking 200watts, that aint much.

sam430

iTrader: (10)

H'bout the pdx5 amp? tiny little amp. 75wx4 rms and I think 300wrms for the sub.

Also, the pheonix gold 10" sounds good... I dumped my 10" kicker comp (already in the trash). Amazon has it for 59 bux.

KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

UPDATED W/ PIX

the box specs are 11 x 11 x 11 and the wood thickness is about 3/4 inch sorry I forgot... I went onto 12volt.com and saw that its

0.49617 Cubic feet and 14.05 Liters after I entered the Dimensions

And the issue isnt will I have enough power, its will I be pushing TOO much power to the sub with the kicker amp (again its pushing 450 RMS)

The L7 can handle 450 RMS and 900 Peak (Thats why I chose it)



but in the smallest sealed enclosure they are saying ~ 200 RMS should be pushed (Maybe so that the speaker wont blow)



So now Im just thinking If this whole setup doesnt work Should I scrap this idea of an 8 inch sub and look to get a different sub? I really wanted to push around 400- 500 watts RMS not some measely
200 ~ 250 RMS


Im considering getting a 10 inch L5 in a sealed box here are the specs



I think the 10 inch L5 compliments the power output of the amp better (again 450 RMS)
or am I wrong again?

tneig002

Honestly, it sounds like you have conflicting opinions here, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I can't really tell if it's sound quality or pure bass volume you want. Either way, wattage doesn't really tell you much. Really you just want to be looking for build quality of the amp, which between the two models you mentioned, gives a significant edge to the kicker amp. I can't say kicker amps are an absolute thrill to work with or even listen to, but they are far and away one of the better "mainstream" audio companies when it comes to designing amplifiers.

That being said, are you planning on buying this amp brand new, or is that even an issue? I know you said you're on a budget, but you could likely find a good-conditioned set of Diamond Audio amps (i.e. a 400.1 and a 400.4) that would blow that one Kicker 5-channel out of the water, for about the same price. Besides Focal, DA is probably my most trusted and favorite audio company out there.

KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

HMM I will look into those amps, but whats the difference compared to the kicker? gives more power? sounds better?

I was most interested in sound quality, nice clean tight bass. I had hardcore bass with my custom ported box for my L7 12 inch, and like I said im having a kid and this car being my daily driver, I cant pound it hard, plus I need trunk space

Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

First off, you shouldn't be choosing a sub based solely on how much power it can take. (BTW, subs don't "push" power, amps do, but I digress)

Second, according to what you posted, the 8" L7 can handle 200 watts, not 450. Notice how in both the small and maximum enclosures it says 200 watts?

This is not just so that the speaker won't blow. Keep in mind that most of the power going in will be generating heat as the coil moves. The thermal power handling is 200 watts (again, see both sides of what you posted).

Are you aware that power is logarithmic? Having 400 watts is only going to be about 3dB louder than 200 watts. This is almost unnoticeable. It's also going to generate more heat.

This woofer can handle 450 watts (again, see both sides). The 8" L5 handles 180 watts.

You can get the Crunch if it's more cost effective and does the job.

Curious about the box size, though. You say 11 x 11 x 11. Is this internal or external? I calculate 0.77 cu ft for external, and 0.62 cu ft for internal. This doesn't deduct the woofer displacement, which will be about another 0.105. This reduces the effective enclosures to 0.665 and 0.515, respectively, which is a good mix of SQ/size, so that should be okay.

Lastly, congrats on the kid, and good looking out on needing space for baby crap.

Big Mack

Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

PS - it's "reliable."

Big Mack

KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

no, the 8 inch L7 pushes 450 RMS atleast so they say



thats why I was asking if I should use the kicker amp to properly power the sub at the Rated 450 RMS
or should the maximum power that I provide the sub with be the 200W RMS that is stated in the illustration which would be with the Crunch amp.

I also find it odd that all the other sizes, 10, 12, and 15 all show the same power handling rating in the minimum sealed enclosure but the 8 Inch is the only one that doesn't I was thinking that it's a typo but I'm not sure.

And like I said, I'm not too much of an audio man, So I automatically thought that more power equals louder music especially a difference from 200 to 400 WRMS I thought would be 2x louder.


Also thanks, im gettin ready for a kid man, and i never realized that mispelling thanks

Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

The specs (look at the RH side) say 200 watts in the small sealed or larger sealed enclosure. I don't care what other says - those numbers are free air. This is, most likely, due to the very small enclosure - again, the thermal power handling is compromised. And the sub does not push power. It takes it.

Yes, use the Crunch.

No worries, it's a common misconception. This is why I usually discourage people from going from a 300 watt amp to a 500 watt amp - the change is negligible. If you want double the volume, you have to have 10 x the power, so if you have 100 watts going to a sub, you'd need 1000 going to it to get twice as loud. The price break between 100 & 1000 is pretty big (although getting smaller every day).

Big Mack

KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

Im sorry I keep saying pushing power for the sub, but It pushes out sound so thats why I sub consciously keep thinking and saying push...

Okay so just to clarify, the 200RMS 8 Inch L7 wouldnt sound much weaker than the 450RMS 10 inch L5? and in this case, if I wanted to sound 2x louder than the 8 inch L7 I would need to get a
2000W RMS sound system? kinda doesnt make sense to me

and you mean that the rated RMS doesnt mean squat? I was just in fear of underpowering the sub and I had always heard that isnt something you want to do....

Im just covering all bases and making sure

tneig002

With the same amount of power pushing each speaker, the L5 and L7 should sound almost identical at equal frequencies. Now obviously the 10 is going to dip a little lower into sub-bass range but I imagine if you're looking at these size subs you just want clear lower midbass anyway. What makes these subs different from one another is the magnet and voice coil structure. The L7 magnet can more readily handle more current because of a larger and more efficient magnet, thus wasting less electricity as heat and therefore giving it a "higher" power rating.

That being said, RMS wattage in no way translates into sound quality. With so many different standards of measuring and rating power, efficiency differs so much between manufacturers and even between the same manufacturers' speakers. Take home audio for instance. Some of the most highly lauded, greatest sounding, and most expensive integrated amplifiers do not exceed 50 watts a channel. Its really how clean the power is, not how plentiful.

As for underpowering a subwoofer, all you may have heard about it being bad is total bunk. Yes it may sound worse than a properly powered speaker but it does not harm the speaker. What underpowering leads to is people misusing their amplifier's gain control as a volume control and thus turning it to max and bleeding heat into the sub's coil. Of all the blown subs I've seen come in for testing in my install bay, on almost every occasion all it took was a quick look at the parameter adjustment ***** on the amp to know immediately what had caused the failure.

Oh and in reference to your earlier question, companies like Diamond and Focal are really in another league when it comes to comparing them with Kicker. Focal is definitely audiophile quality equipment (and audiophile expensive, but worth every penny). Diamond is motr "mainstream" like Kicker, but their products are made with more attention to detail and less concentration on mass production.

KingNasGS4

iTrader: (22)

okay so do you think its necessary to get an 8 inch L7?

Im thinking now I should focus on an L5 8 inch because it is only 20 watts less in the minimum sealed enclosure, can reach upto 300 wrms (Which I still wont reach) and costs less. why pay extra for power that I wont be able to achieve? if that makes sense

so again, you dont think it would really make a difference in sound and how the sub hits if I used a crunch amp compared to kicker?
Ive heard nothing about good things about the crunch.
Im sorry if im asking too much and getting lost