ATTN. PERCY. Manger Bending Wave Drivers?!
07-04-02, 06:27 PM
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ATTN. PERCY. Manger Bending Wave Drivers?!
Hello Percy,
I've been reading a lot of your threads here lately and found them very interesting and informative. Both you and Peter Lufrano have been very helpful in the past with answering my questions. I have some new questions for you as well as some information.
1. Have you seen or heard these Manger Bending Wave Drivers yet? They look very impressive as do the claims of SQ. Do you think that they could be utilized in a high-end auto sound system? They are available in 4-0hm versions, but they are quite large in diameter. Here's a link with photos & specs from the e-speakers web site: http://www.e-speakers.com/Products/manger.htm
http://www.manger-usa.com
2. Related to the recent threads about the Alpine PXA-H900 processor, have you checked out the New Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 Head Unit and DEQ-P9 Digital EQ/X-O/Time Alignment processor? As far as what it claims to do, it seems pretty impressive, however there's no HCCD or SACD support that I can tell. The MSRP on the Head Unit is $1280, but I picked one up for $650. Pioneer says, "For the purest signal transfer, each pre-amp output (low/mid/high) includes separate 24-bit DAC's and high volt outputs (4 volts). Also included are an optical input and output, which further improve the purity of the signal as it's passed to other components." I saw somewhere that the sub preout is converted using a 1-bit DAC, while the front and rear outputs use 24-bit.
I haven't purchased the DEQ-P9 yet, but can get it for $580. I don't know much about the different DAC & DSP chips out there and wondered if you could shed some light on these units and there performance specs as well as it's OP-AMPs? Would this be a worthwhile system to build upon?... Better than the older ODR system? Here's a link to a review by Car Audio & Electronics and the Pioneer web site:
http://www.caraudiomag.com/archives/..._tests01.shtml
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pi...9,2240,00.html
3. I saw a recent thread where David Navone said that they used a stock 2000 Cadillac Bose Head Unit in their IASCA car, and another competitor used the same head unit with Navone Engineering's #N-744V Variable 4-channel Hi-Q Full-Range OEM Adapter for an adjustable preout of 0-9.5 volts, and that it "SPANKED" his previous Nakamichi CD 700 head unit as far as SQ!!! He didn't say what the rest of his system consisted of, but he said to confirm the info with David Navone directly. Any knowlege on this? Here's a link to Navone's site. I wish I could remember where I saw the thread!!! http://www.davidnavone.com
4. Also here's a review of the Arc Audio 4150CLXR amp. I can't afford the Mc's or Brax. The reviews and tested specs look impressive. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, though.
http://www.arcaudio.com/C&A4150_1.htm
Hope all is well and I'd appreciate any info and knowlege you could offer as well as any others out there that would like to respond.
Bill Bodwell
Los Angeles
I've been reading a lot of your threads here lately and found them very interesting and informative. Both you and Peter Lufrano have been very helpful in the past with answering my questions. I have some new questions for you as well as some information.
1. Have you seen or heard these Manger Bending Wave Drivers yet? They look very impressive as do the claims of SQ. Do you think that they could be utilized in a high-end auto sound system? They are available in 4-0hm versions, but they are quite large in diameter. Here's a link with photos & specs from the e-speakers web site: http://www.e-speakers.com/Products/manger.htm
http://www.manger-usa.com
2. Related to the recent threads about the Alpine PXA-H900 processor, have you checked out the New Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 Head Unit and DEQ-P9 Digital EQ/X-O/Time Alignment processor? As far as what it claims to do, it seems pretty impressive, however there's no HCCD or SACD support that I can tell. The MSRP on the Head Unit is $1280, but I picked one up for $650. Pioneer says, "For the purest signal transfer, each pre-amp output (low/mid/high) includes separate 24-bit DAC's and high volt outputs (4 volts). Also included are an optical input and output, which further improve the purity of the signal as it's passed to other components." I saw somewhere that the sub preout is converted using a 1-bit DAC, while the front and rear outputs use 24-bit.
I haven't purchased the DEQ-P9 yet, but can get it for $580. I don't know much about the different DAC & DSP chips out there and wondered if you could shed some light on these units and there performance specs as well as it's OP-AMPs? Would this be a worthwhile system to build upon?... Better than the older ODR system? Here's a link to a review by Car Audio & Electronics and the Pioneer web site:
http://www.caraudiomag.com/archives/..._tests01.shtml
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pi...9,2240,00.html
3. I saw a recent thread where David Navone said that they used a stock 2000 Cadillac Bose Head Unit in their IASCA car, and another competitor used the same head unit with Navone Engineering's #N-744V Variable 4-channel Hi-Q Full-Range OEM Adapter for an adjustable preout of 0-9.5 volts, and that it "SPANKED" his previous Nakamichi CD 700 head unit as far as SQ!!! He didn't say what the rest of his system consisted of, but he said to confirm the info with David Navone directly. Any knowlege on this? Here's a link to Navone's site. I wish I could remember where I saw the thread!!! http://www.davidnavone.com
4. Also here's a review of the Arc Audio 4150CLXR amp. I can't afford the Mc's or Brax. The reviews and tested specs look impressive. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, though.
http://www.arcaudio.com/C&A4150_1.htm
Hope all is well and I'd appreciate any info and knowlege you could offer as well as any others out there that would like to respond.
Bill Bodwell
Los Angeles
07-04-02, 08:30 PM
#2
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Re: ATTN. PERCY. Manger Bending Wave Drivers?!
Originally posted by bbfoto
Hello Percy,
***Hi Bill!***
1. Have you seen or heard these Manger Bending Wave Drivers yet? They look very impressive as do the claims of SQ. Do you think that they could be utilized in a high-end auto sound system? They are available in 4-0hm versions, but they are quite large in diameter. Here's a link with photos & specs from the e-speakers web site: http://www.e-speakers.com/Products/manger.htm
http://www.manger-usa.com
***They're impressive on specs only and their overall frequency response leaves a bit to be desired. Shall we say - they're OVERLY optimistic on the specs. The coil is relatively thin and they burn out quite easily. It's a unique design and I've looked into getting a set of these, only to find out from one of their previous owners (and members of rec.audio.opinion) that they're more hype than actual performance. ***
2. Related to the recent threads about the Alpine PXA-H900 processor, have you checked out the New Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 Head Unit and DEQ-P9 Digital EQ/X-O/Time Alignment processor? As far as what it claims to do, it seems pretty impressive, however there's no HCCD or SACD support that I can tell. The MSRP on the Head Unit is $1280, but I picked one up for $650. Pioneer says, "For the purest signal transfer, each pre-amp output (low/mid/high) includes separate 24-bit DAC's and high volt outputs (4 volts). Also included are an optical input and output, which further improve the purity of the signal as it's passed to other components." I saw somewhere that the sub preout is converted using a 1-bit DAC, while the front and rear outputs use 24-bit.
I haven't purchased the DEQ-P9 yet, but can get it for $580. I don't know much about the different DAC & DSP chips out there and wondered if you could shed some light on these units and there performance specs as well as it's OP-AMPs? Would this be a worthwhile system to build upon?... Better than the older ODR system? Here's a link to a review by Car Audio & Electronics and the Pioneer web site:
http://www.caraudiomag.com/archives/..._tests01.shtml
***The channel seperation looks a touch low. At 88db, it's not a world beater by any means. Alpine's CHA604/605 changers were rated at 80db. Look for a figure higher than 96db. Mc's are rated at 110 for the channel seperation. While other guys on different boards think that channel seperation doesn't mean anything, they're dead wrong. It's like taking two ideal speaker locations and then putting them right next to each other. Stereo image and all of the associated goodies suffer.***
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pi...9,2240,00.html
***Pioneer says 24 bit dacs, but I'm wondering if they're using the Crystal CS4390 or the Burr Brown PCM1704. More than likely the former. There was something that I didn't really like about the Crystal series but forgot what it was. Settling time? In any case, with a properly designed DAC, power supply, timing, REAL op amps (not ne5532/ TL07x, etc) and a clock relatively free of jitter (less than 200ps), you really won't be able to hear the difference between the two dacs.***
3. I saw a recent thread where David Navone said that they used a stock 2000 Cadillac Bose Head Unit in their IASCA car, and another competitor used the same head unit with Navone Engineering's #N-744V Variable 4-channel Hi-Q Full-Range OEM Adapter for an adjustable preout of 0-9.5 volts, and that it "SPANKED" his previous Nakamichi CD 700 head unit as far as SQ!!! He didn't say what the rest of his system consisted of, but he said to confirm the info with David Navone directly. Any knowlege on this? Here's a link to Navone's site. I wish I could remember where I saw the thread!!! http://www.davidnavone.com
***So far I have NOT been impressed with Navone's engineering. I have one of his products (voltage doubler for sub) and took a look inside. CHEAP parts. All "rat shack" specials. Here's the part that got me...ALL the chip numbers were sanded off, as if he didn't want anyone to know what he was using. I'd actually have to take a look inside his Hi-Q Full Range oem adapter to see what's going on.***
4. Also here's a review of the Arc Audio 4150CLXR amp. I can't afford the Mc's or Brax. The reviews and tested specs look impressive. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, though.
http://www.arcaudio.com/C&A4150_1.htm
***Signal to noise looks great. Channel seperation is a little weak. Also, Arc doesn't mention what type of op amps. As for their crossover controls ... who the heck designed that?!?!***
Hope all is well and I'd appreciate any info and knowlege you could offer as well as any others out there that would like to respond.
***Still trying to stay sane...but all the college ladies are keeping me happy.
Working for a school does have it's benefits! ***
Bill Bodwell
Los Angeles
Hello Percy,
***Hi Bill!***
1. Have you seen or heard these Manger Bending Wave Drivers yet? They look very impressive as do the claims of SQ. Do you think that they could be utilized in a high-end auto sound system? They are available in 4-0hm versions, but they are quite large in diameter. Here's a link with photos & specs from the e-speakers web site: http://www.e-speakers.com/Products/manger.htm
http://www.manger-usa.com
***They're impressive on specs only and their overall frequency response leaves a bit to be desired. Shall we say - they're OVERLY optimistic on the specs. The coil is relatively thin and they burn out quite easily. It's a unique design and I've looked into getting a set of these, only to find out from one of their previous owners (and members of rec.audio.opinion) that they're more hype than actual performance. ***
2. Related to the recent threads about the Alpine PXA-H900 processor, have you checked out the New Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 Head Unit and DEQ-P9 Digital EQ/X-O/Time Alignment processor? As far as what it claims to do, it seems pretty impressive, however there's no HCCD or SACD support that I can tell. The MSRP on the Head Unit is $1280, but I picked one up for $650. Pioneer says, "For the purest signal transfer, each pre-amp output (low/mid/high) includes separate 24-bit DAC's and high volt outputs (4 volts). Also included are an optical input and output, which further improve the purity of the signal as it's passed to other components." I saw somewhere that the sub preout is converted using a 1-bit DAC, while the front and rear outputs use 24-bit.
I haven't purchased the DEQ-P9 yet, but can get it for $580. I don't know much about the different DAC & DSP chips out there and wondered if you could shed some light on these units and there performance specs as well as it's OP-AMPs? Would this be a worthwhile system to build upon?... Better than the older ODR system? Here's a link to a review by Car Audio & Electronics and the Pioneer web site:
http://www.caraudiomag.com/archives/..._tests01.shtml
***The channel seperation looks a touch low. At 88db, it's not a world beater by any means. Alpine's CHA604/605 changers were rated at 80db. Look for a figure higher than 96db. Mc's are rated at 110 for the channel seperation. While other guys on different boards think that channel seperation doesn't mean anything, they're dead wrong. It's like taking two ideal speaker locations and then putting them right next to each other. Stereo image and all of the associated goodies suffer.***
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/Pi...9,2240,00.html
***Pioneer says 24 bit dacs, but I'm wondering if they're using the Crystal CS4390 or the Burr Brown PCM1704. More than likely the former. There was something that I didn't really like about the Crystal series but forgot what it was. Settling time? In any case, with a properly designed DAC, power supply, timing, REAL op amps (not ne5532/ TL07x, etc) and a clock relatively free of jitter (less than 200ps), you really won't be able to hear the difference between the two dacs.***
3. I saw a recent thread where David Navone said that they used a stock 2000 Cadillac Bose Head Unit in their IASCA car, and another competitor used the same head unit with Navone Engineering's #N-744V Variable 4-channel Hi-Q Full-Range OEM Adapter for an adjustable preout of 0-9.5 volts, and that it "SPANKED" his previous Nakamichi CD 700 head unit as far as SQ!!! He didn't say what the rest of his system consisted of, but he said to confirm the info with David Navone directly. Any knowlege on this? Here's a link to Navone's site. I wish I could remember where I saw the thread!!! http://www.davidnavone.com
***So far I have NOT been impressed with Navone's engineering. I have one of his products (voltage doubler for sub) and took a look inside. CHEAP parts. All "rat shack" specials. Here's the part that got me...ALL the chip numbers were sanded off, as if he didn't want anyone to know what he was using. I'd actually have to take a look inside his Hi-Q Full Range oem adapter to see what's going on.***
4. Also here's a review of the Arc Audio 4150CLXR amp. I can't afford the Mc's or Brax. The reviews and tested specs look impressive. Haven't had a chance to listen yet, though.
http://www.arcaudio.com/C&A4150_1.htm
***Signal to noise looks great. Channel seperation is a little weak. Also, Arc doesn't mention what type of op amps. As for their crossover controls ... who the heck designed that?!?!***
Hope all is well and I'd appreciate any info and knowlege you could offer as well as any others out there that would like to respond.
***Still trying to stay sane...but all the college ladies are keeping me happy.
Working for a school does have it's benefits! ***Bill Bodwell
Los Angeles
07-05-02, 12:58 PM
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Re: ATTN. PERCY. Manger Bending Wave Drivers.
Percy,
Thanks for all the great info and QUICK response!! I'll have to take some time to digest it and get back to you. Hmmm...maybe I should go back to school, too! I'm around enough beautiful women with my work as a fashion photographer, but most of them are out of reach. Just worked with Christy Turlington, Ines Sastre, and Michelle Pfiefer! Great ladies. It was really tough. ha! Thanks again.
Bill Bodwell
Thanks for all the great info and QUICK response!! I'll have to take some time to digest it and get back to you. Hmmm...maybe I should go back to school, too! I'm around enough beautiful women with my work as a fashion photographer, but most of them are out of reach. Just worked with Christy Turlington, Ines Sastre, and Michelle Pfiefer! Great ladies. It was really tough. ha! Thanks again.
Bill Bodwell
07-05-02, 07:56 PM
#4
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Re: Re: ATTN. PERCY. Manger Bending Wave Drivers.
Originally posted by bbfoto
Percy,
Thanks for all the great info and QUICK response!! I'll have to take some time to digest it and get back to you. Hmmm...maybe I should go back to school, too! I'm around enough beautiful women with my work as a fashion photographer, but most of them are out of reach. Just worked with Christy Turlington, Ines Sastre, and Michelle Pfiefer! Great ladies. It was really tough. ha! Thanks again.
Bill Bodwell
Percy,
Thanks for all the great info and QUICK response!! I'll have to take some time to digest it and get back to you. Hmmm...maybe I should go back to school, too! I'm around enough beautiful women with my work as a fashion photographer, but most of them are out of reach. Just worked with Christy Turlington, Ines Sastre, and Michelle Pfiefer! Great ladies. It was really tough. ha! Thanks again.
Bill Bodwell
They're usually VERY professional (models) to work with at that level. As long there are no attitude problems or clashes then it's all good.
As for the young ladies at college, they're ALL approachable. Percy
Canon/Mamiya 6x7 user.
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