Vaistech SL2iC Review (vs SL2i-UP and SL2Vi) -- ML+ to come
06-03-11, 04:48 PM
#16
a) correct, the cable is built in already, not usb type. if you get ml+, then it's usb connection so you can use the apple cable
b) to be honest i have never tried, but from what i was told by vaistech, if you plug in non ios4 unit, nothing will happen. can double check with them
c) every time you start the car, you have to repeat the process to unlock the nav. there is nothing in the market that truly enable the nav menus without consequence imho. and i can tell you for sure on the 2010+ the nav is still on lock down when the car is moving
for what you want
1) vml and ml+ both allow you to use usb sticks, or plug in ipod cable. you can also install a harddrive if you want. so that's options for you
2) vml and ml+ unfortunately don't have any nav override support. if you want that, you can always get the prestigious override
3) vml is just audio, ml+ has video as well. so those are the choices for you. vml does display audio album and track info on screen
b) to be honest i have never tried, but from what i was told by vaistech, if you plug in non ios4 unit, nothing will happen. can double check with them
c) every time you start the car, you have to repeat the process to unlock the nav. there is nothing in the market that truly enable the nav menus without consequence imho. and i can tell you for sure on the 2010+ the nav is still on lock down when the car is moving
for what you want
1) vml and ml+ both allow you to use usb sticks, or plug in ipod cable. you can also install a harddrive if you want. so that's options for you
2) vml and ml+ unfortunately don't have any nav override support. if you want that, you can always get the prestigious override
3) vml is just audio, ml+ has video as well. so those are the choices for you. vml does display audio album and track info on screen
So it looks like:
a) The interface to the iPod/iPhone is the Apple connector and not a female USB (which would allow for any size, the bumpers Apple made don't fit a variety of third party connectors, ugh.) having female USB there I could use any Apple <-> USB connector that fits (including the defacto white one) - just wanted to confirm that, from the picture it looks like that's the case.
b) You say older iPods won't function "at all" - as in I plug it in and it just gets ignored? Or I just won't get the whiz-bang iPod Out capabilities. Will it still function and play songs and perhaps read some of the metadata? What is the experience with say, an iPod Classic (one of the 60 gig models)
c) The navigation override (allowing GPS to be programmed while moving) isn't enabled by default, but requires a few keys to enable (much like the service menu override, but a little easier) - once you enable it, it's good until the power/car is turned off. I assume when you turn it back on, it's back to being disabled again? Or does it persist across car restarts? I want something to persist ideally. I had a couple loaner cars from my dealer and I swea the newer Lexus built-in nav units allow for full navigation programming/etc. while the car is in motion, and the "joystick" interface I find to be 10x more distracting to drivers. That to me seems like more of a safety issue than my generation nav!
For the record I have an '06 IS350.
Ideally, I want these, if anyone has ideas of how to accomplish this, or if VAIS has updated the units to do this...
a) USB connectivity - for iPod, iPhone, maybe other specially formatted USB devices (HDs etc?) - if I have to stick with Apple products that's fine. I assume I'd have to for this (I have been looking at a lot of different products, some of them allow for any USB devices)
b) Nav override I don't have to even touch - or I touch it once to enable the override and never have to touch it again (unless for some reason I have to disable it.)
c) Video support is neat but I don't care as much. I just want song titles / playlists / full browsing capability using the touchscreen.
I come from using a USA SPEC PA20-TOY, which was "the best on the market" at the time I bought it, and I found it to be horribly limited and annoying. Obviously these units are steps above that, but I don't want to drop a bunch of money + time into installation to wind up finding out other limitations that I thought were part of it. Like the nav override I saw a bullet point perhaps on VAIS's site, but I didn't know that it requires some keystrokes to enable. I thought it was maybe a jumper switch or a config option that isn't forgotten and you only had to do it once
a) The interface to the iPod/iPhone is the Apple connector and not a female USB (which would allow for any size, the bumpers Apple made don't fit a variety of third party connectors, ugh.) having female USB there I could use any Apple <-> USB connector that fits (including the defacto white one) - just wanted to confirm that, from the picture it looks like that's the case.
b) You say older iPods won't function "at all" - as in I plug it in and it just gets ignored? Or I just won't get the whiz-bang iPod Out capabilities. Will it still function and play songs and perhaps read some of the metadata? What is the experience with say, an iPod Classic (one of the 60 gig models)
c) The navigation override (allowing GPS to be programmed while moving) isn't enabled by default, but requires a few keys to enable (much like the service menu override, but a little easier) - once you enable it, it's good until the power/car is turned off. I assume when you turn it back on, it's back to being disabled again? Or does it persist across car restarts? I want something to persist ideally. I had a couple loaner cars from my dealer and I swea the newer Lexus built-in nav units allow for full navigation programming/etc. while the car is in motion, and the "joystick" interface I find to be 10x more distracting to drivers. That to me seems like more of a safety issue than my generation nav!
For the record I have an '06 IS350.
Ideally, I want these, if anyone has ideas of how to accomplish this, or if VAIS has updated the units to do this...
a) USB connectivity - for iPod, iPhone, maybe other specially formatted USB devices (HDs etc?) - if I have to stick with Apple products that's fine. I assume I'd have to for this (I have been looking at a lot of different products, some of them allow for any USB devices)
b) Nav override I don't have to even touch - or I touch it once to enable the override and never have to touch it again (unless for some reason I have to disable it.)
c) Video support is neat but I don't care as much. I just want song titles / playlists / full browsing capability using the touchscreen.
I come from using a USA SPEC PA20-TOY, which was "the best on the market" at the time I bought it, and I found it to be horribly limited and annoying. Obviously these units are steps above that, but I don't want to drop a bunch of money + time into installation to wind up finding out other limitations that I thought were part of it. Like the nav override I saw a bullet point perhaps on VAIS's site, but I didn't know that it requires some keystrokes to enable. I thought it was maybe a jumper switch or a config option that isn't forgotten and you only had to do it once
06-22-11, 08:45 PM
#17
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I'm about to get an '08 GS350 with Mark Levinson to replace my '99 GS300 and I keep going back and forth on the various VAIS iPod integration solutions (looking at SL2iC, ML+ and VML, primarily). My main question at this point relates to audio quality. Most of the files on my iTouch are either M4A or M4P; given that, am I likely to be able to distinguish between the analog (SL2iC) and digital (ML+ and VML) signals? If I knew the answer to that, it would help my decision process. Any thoughts would really be appreciated.
06-22-11, 11:35 PM
#18
welcome to clublexus. of course it also depends on the bitrate of the encoding, but it seems like they are probably not lossless encoding. to me it's probably marginal difference
but keep in mind, you have mark levinson, sl2ic can be tricky to operate. i know a lot of sl2ic owners upgraded to ml+
but keep in mind, you have mark levinson, sl2ic can be tricky to operate. i know a lot of sl2ic owners upgraded to ml+
06-23-11, 09:17 AM
#19
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Thanks for the welcome and your comments. These forums, and your reviews, comments and insights, in particular, are unbelievably helpful. Much appreciated.
You mention Mark Levinson - is the sl2ic trickier with the Mark Levinson system than non-Levinson? Trickier in terms of being less intuitive than ML+ or trickier in terms of bugs/quirkiness relative to the ML+? I like that the sl2ic has nav override built-in but it lacks digital output; if I go with ML+, other than the extra cost, I'd need to do something more to get Nav override (something like the PS solution for approximately $350 assuming that it would be compatible with ML+). If cost weren't a factor, that's the way I'd probably go. Just for reference, what I've been accustomed to using is the system that I installed in the '99 GS - a Pioneer AVIC D3 with ipod bus cable which is a pretty user-friendly and robust interface.
Sorry for so much detail, just wanted to provide some more context. Any additional thoughts? Probably going to pull the trigger today - still trying to decide whether to do the install myself or not. Again, thanks very much for your thoughts.
You mention Mark Levinson - is the sl2ic trickier with the Mark Levinson system than non-Levinson? Trickier in terms of being less intuitive than ML+ or trickier in terms of bugs/quirkiness relative to the ML+? I like that the sl2ic has nav override built-in but it lacks digital output; if I go with ML+, other than the extra cost, I'd need to do something more to get Nav override (something like the PS solution for approximately $350 assuming that it would be compatible with ML+). If cost weren't a factor, that's the way I'd probably go. Just for reference, what I've been accustomed to using is the system that I installed in the '99 GS - a Pioneer AVIC D3 with ipod bus cable which is a pretty user-friendly and robust interface.
Sorry for so much detail, just wanted to provide some more context. Any additional thoughts? Probably going to pull the trigger today - still trying to decide whether to do the install myself or not. Again, thanks very much for your thoughts.
06-23-11, 10:27 AM
#20
you are welcome. yes the sl2ic has nav override feature and that's a plus. although as i mentioned in my review there are quite a few steps to get to override nav (matter of convenience).
when i said trickier, i wasn't referring to bugs. both ml+ and sl2ic are pretty new and there are still new firmwares coming out every now and then. of course, updating firmware on ml+ is easier (usb stick). updating sl2ic firmware and you need extra module from vaistech.
the tricky part, from all the installations i have done, is on cars with mark levinson, and it's only on sl2ic. the problem has to do with my wish list #3. with mark levinson system and in map screen (when you are driving), if you want to get to the sl2ic graphical interface, you can't just press the AUDIO button. it will be the lexus standard screen and the PICTURE button will be grayed out. so the only way to get to the screen (besides stopping), is to use the DISC button to cycle through (go back to dvd, aux, and to ipod).
now here's the thing. on both sl2vi-p4 and sl2ic there is this problem. if you don't press the DISC fast enough, when you are back on the ipod mode, there will be no sound. if that happens, you will need to cycle through very fast again. it becomes a matter of luck. for me i am quite experienced with vaistech products so i can do it better (although still fail sometimes), but some of my customers keep on having trouble.
the funny thing is on cars without mark levinson, cycling through the DISC button is straight forward, no need to do it fast at all.
on the other hand, ml+ doesn't have this problem. when you are driving, all you do is press the AUDIO button and the graphical interface will come up.
of course, i can't stress enough about the graphics on ml+, it's so fantastic. the ml+ ipod video playback, you can also use playlist and control it from screen, vs sl2ic you can only do it through the ipod
but on the other hand, ml+ is more expensive too, absolutely understandable
when i said trickier, i wasn't referring to bugs. both ml+ and sl2ic are pretty new and there are still new firmwares coming out every now and then. of course, updating firmware on ml+ is easier (usb stick). updating sl2ic firmware and you need extra module from vaistech.
the tricky part, from all the installations i have done, is on cars with mark levinson, and it's only on sl2ic. the problem has to do with my wish list #3. with mark levinson system and in map screen (when you are driving), if you want to get to the sl2ic graphical interface, you can't just press the AUDIO button. it will be the lexus standard screen and the PICTURE button will be grayed out. so the only way to get to the screen (besides stopping), is to use the DISC button to cycle through (go back to dvd, aux, and to ipod).
now here's the thing. on both sl2vi-p4 and sl2ic there is this problem. if you don't press the DISC fast enough, when you are back on the ipod mode, there will be no sound. if that happens, you will need to cycle through very fast again. it becomes a matter of luck. for me i am quite experienced with vaistech products so i can do it better (although still fail sometimes), but some of my customers keep on having trouble.
the funny thing is on cars without mark levinson, cycling through the DISC button is straight forward, no need to do it fast at all.
on the other hand, ml+ doesn't have this problem. when you are driving, all you do is press the AUDIO button and the graphical interface will come up.
of course, i can't stress enough about the graphics on ml+, it's so fantastic. the ml+ ipod video playback, you can also use playlist and control it from screen, vs sl2ic you can only do it through the ipod
but on the other hand, ml+ is more expensive too, absolutely understandable
06-23-11, 12:22 PM
#21
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Thanks very much for the additional insights. Very helpful. I've definitely got a better sense of some of the additional, not so obvious, advantages of the ML+ and am definitely leaning that way.
Thanks, again (and I have a sense that this won't be my last post on this topic . . .).
Thanks, again (and I have a sense that this won't be my last post on this topic . . .).
06-26-11, 01:42 PM
#23
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Thanks. Speaking of more questions . . . sometimes it takes me awhile to finalize a decision (obviously). Just to throw one more unit into the mix, I was wondering if the VML might not be a good fit for me if I'm primarily concerned with getting the digital audio with some reasonable search capabilities and not so concerned about video capability (which is the case). Would it be compatible with my iPod Touch? Would I need to create special playlists or will I be able to search the iPod from the factory touch screen as-is? Would updates be via the USB plug, i.e., on par with the ML+ in terms of ease of accomplishing? I realize, of course, that the user interface won't be as nice as the ML+, but it sounds like I would have reasonable ability to search from the touchscreen. As before, I would really appreciate any comments. I'll be doing the installation - hopefully later this week after I pick up the car Tuesday.
06-26-11, 02:22 PM
#24
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Sorry for replying to my own post - I'll get better at this! Think that I understand one additional benefit of the ML+ over the VML: with the VML, you can't adjust anything, i.e., search for and select another song or album, while the vehicle is moving but, with the ML+, you can adjust while moving. Do I have that right?
06-30-11, 02:17 PM
#26
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the tricky part, from all the installations i have done, is on cars with mark levinson, and it's only on sl2ic. the problem has to do with my wish list #3. with mark levinson system and in map screen (when you are driving), if you want to get to the sl2ic graphical interface, you can't just press the AUDIO button. it will be the lexus standard screen and the PICTURE button will be grayed out. so the only way to get to the screen (besides stopping), is to use the DISC button to cycle through (go back to dvd, aux, and to ipod).
I recently purchased an '08 GX with the mark levinson nav. I have the SL2iC in it too. Your method above does work. I've also found that if I switch to a different audio input (e.g. FM) then push the AUDIO button and then the DISC button it will get me back to the SL2iC iPod graphical interface. Not really any shorter than what you described (and may be worse since you briefly switch over to FM) but it doesn't seem to have the timing issue that you have to nail correctly in like has to be done when cycling through the DISC options.
On a slightly different but very much related topic...
I am experiencing an issue that to me is just as bad if not worse than the problem when switching between the map and SL2iC graphical interface... If I start the car with anything other than the iPod interface active (e.g. FM) and then try to switch to the iPod it doesn't work correctly. The SL2iC seems to lose control of the iPod because it plays a portion of a random song and then will skip to another random song and play a portion of that and so on. Also the iPod graphical interface doesn't come up. I can get the basic SL2iC menu but not the iPod menu. I can cycling through the DISC options (like mentioned above) but that doesn't resolve it. I can switch back to FM, or another input, and then to DISC and that doesn't do it. It doesn't matter if I am stopped or moving, the same thing happens.
I haven't found a way to make it work right unless I start the car with the iPod interface active - which means I have to make sure it is set to the SL2iC iPod interface when I turn off the car. If the car does start with the iPod interface active then everything works fine (except of course the map issue which is a known issue and the nav/bluetooth/video bypass which doesn't work in the GX for some reason).
Anyone else have this problem and/or know a solution to it?
Thanks
06-30-11, 02:37 PM
#27
welcome to club lexus.
thanks for the feedback, i definitely need to try the fm - audio - disc method. but yes, it's sometimes hard to describe the tricky part of sl2ic unless you actually own and use the system. again, this is the case for cars with mark levinson
i don't have your 2nd problem though. my screen is default to map all the time to begin with, and every time i start the car it's just playing the ipod directly. have you asked vaistech about it?
thanks for the feedback, i definitely need to try the fm - audio - disc method. but yes, it's sometimes hard to describe the tricky part of sl2ic unless you actually own and use the system. again, this is the case for cars with mark levinson
i don't have your 2nd problem though. my screen is default to map all the time to begin with, and every time i start the car it's just playing the ipod directly. have you asked vaistech about it?
06-30-11, 03:07 PM
#28
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welcome to club lexus.
thanks for the feedback, i definitely need to try the fm - audio - disc method. but yes, it's sometimes hard to describe the tricky part of sl2ic unless you actually own and use the system. again, this is the case for cars with mark levinson
i don't have your 2nd problem though. my screen is default to map all the time to begin with, and every time i start the car it's just playing the ipod directly. have you asked vaistech about it?
thanks for the feedback, i definitely need to try the fm - audio - disc method. but yes, it's sometimes hard to describe the tricky part of sl2ic unless you actually own and use the system. again, this is the case for cars with mark levinson
i don't have your 2nd problem though. my screen is default to map all the time to begin with, and every time i start the car it's just playing the ipod directly. have you asked vaistech about it?
But I figured something out just now... the problem only seems to happen when using my iPod Nano (6th Generation). I know the Nano isn't officially supported but everything seemed to be working fine so that is what I have been using. That is at least until I discovered the problem mentioned above today. I tried it with an iPod Touch and that problem doesn't happen. So it appears to be something specific to do with using the Nano instead of a Touch/iPhone/iPad. O'well. So much for using my extra Nano in the car. (and since I figured that out and can pretty well guess that vaistech will tell me if I ask them about it directly.)
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