I just finished the dynaudio install in my GS400 which was the mkii240 in the front doors and mw160's in the back. The difference from stock speakers is amazing. It would be wise not to try this install without "The Book". I can tell the dyn's want an amp to warm them up even more so I bought a Mcintosh MCC404M. I read in Percy's previous thread that particular amp has line level inputs but when I salesman opened the box the only inputs on the amp are RCA. Am I missing something? Is the amp supposed to have built in LLC's? The salesman asked me what headunit I was going to be using and strongly urged me against using Alpine and going in the direction of Eclipse for SQ reasons. His argument is Eclipse has 8 volt preouts with 55 ohms of resistence. Less noise on the line which can be heard. In "The Book" Percy speaks about 8v preouts and it sounds as if there won't be a difference in SQ between 4v and 8v. Percy, Gene, anybody have any input or experience with Eclipse products? By the way, Eclipse on has 2 set of preouts.

Thank you,

Jason

 

Jason,

Mc DID release a line of amps that had line level inputs built in but I doubt it was the 404. This news was released about a year ago and I have yet to see the amps. Carsound (or one of the mags) had this info but unfortunately, I didn't buy the issue. In this case, if you wanted to stick with the stock HU, you'll need a LLC.

Alpine versus Eclipse. Depends on which model. Eclipse, Clarion and McIntosh all advertise 8 volts output for the preamp. BUT, they do not mention how they achieved that number. I'd say about 99% of the cases, this is with full bass and treble boost AND at a power level that is clipping, in other words, not a clean output to get the 8 volt number.

Top end Alpine (F#1 Status) versus top end Eclipse. Guess what - Alpine's F#1 would beat the Eclipse hands down - it'd better since it's Alpines flagship priced at 8 grand. Now the Alpine non F#1 Status units versus the top end Eclipse - that's going to be a close call. I've had Alpine units before and they sounded decent. Limiting factor was the channel seperation and s/n ratio, especially with one of their CHA 6 or 12 disc players added. (Low channel seperation and so-so analog output op amps) Don't even think about the ERAG320 eq - it's one of THE WORST pieces of crap that I've ever had in my car. Even the top "head honcho" at Alpine admits it's nothing more than a "light show" and not really geared towards sound quality. Throwing a curve here...Sonys top end XESZ50 would literally butt heads with the F#1 Status. The slightly lower grade Sony C90 in combination with the XDP4000X would also be one of the top contenders.

Here's what I use to judge the pre out. Some Radio Shack parts...
1/8 inch stereo y adapter from RCA to 1/8th inch jack. 42-2475. About 5 bucks.

1/8th inch to 1/8th inch adapter (allows the adapter to accept 1/8th inch headphone jacks) catalog number 274-886. About 4 bucks.

Some DECENT quality headphones. I use the Sennheiser HD580 and you can pick these up for about 249. Less on Ebay.

Hook all of these up together and listen to the preouts DIRECTLY with the headphones. See which ones sound better to you. There's no processor, no amp, no interconnects or anything. Pretty much a straight shot to the headphones.

Don't worry about the 4v versus 8v hype. It's just a marketing number and I have yet to see ONE high end head unit that will produce 8 volts output rms without clipping.

Excellent choice on the Mc amp!

Percy

 

Percy,

You are right the news about the mcintosh amps w/ built in llc's was about a year ago. What I did was search on amps and I saw a thread that you wrote about mcintosh amps that will have built in llcs and you listed the mcc404 as being one of them.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...light=mcintosh I didn't even pay attention to the thread date and assumed that since the mcintosh amp I was looking at was the same model number, it should have the llcs built in. Is the stock system with dyns going to sound a lot better with the mcintosh hooked up via llcs or should I wait a couple of months to hook up when I get the aftermarket head unit setup? The reason that I ask is because the stock headunit/amplifier probably doesn't put out the cleanest signal and won't the mcintosh just be amplifying a signal that isn't that clean to start with?
Thanks for the clarification on the 4v vs the 8v argument. I know you discussed this issue in "The Book" but I wanted to make sure that Eclipse which is supposed to be "high end" wasn't an exception to the 4v vs 8v. I did make one mistake in the previous post and that is what is my system goal. Basically I want to put a navigation system in my car where I can play dvd's, cd's and mp3's but maintain a relatively high level of sq rather than spl. That is why I did the dyn's and bought the mac amp. I know that mp3's falls outside of the sq area but I have over 31 gigs stripped at 256k and above. Alpine's F#1 status consists of two products, none which cover my system goal except for the sq part. I was looking at going with the TME-M790, DVA-7996 (channel seperation 90 db and s/n 115 db which probably is at 1 khz not 20 -20khz) and then some sort of changer. But from what you said, their changer would be hurting the sq. Is that choice I face with these system goals or should the tme and dva along with mac amp and dyns make me happy?

Thanks again,

Jason

 

Sorry I'm new to Club Lexus audio forum but what "Book" is this?

 

projectsc,

Percy, whom is one of the electronics' moderators, wrote an audio book for the GS. I believe he only has one book but it is a must have for any GS owner that wants to upgrade their stereo system. The book discusses not only basic to very advanced installs but helps the beginner/novice better understand car audio equipment. You can buy the book by contacting Percy via email at esotar330@ameritech.net

Jason

 

The "book" is called the GS Audio Primer. Applies to 2nd generation GS models only, but there's lots of info that can be applied to other cars, just not the installation instructions.

Percy

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jays400
[B]Percy,

You are right the news about the mcintosh amps w/ built in llc's was about a year ago. What I did was search on amps and I saw a thread that you wrote about mcintosh amps that will have built in llcs and you listed the mcc404 as being one of them.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...light=mcintosh I didn't even pay attention to the thread date and assumed that since the mcintosh amp I was looking at was the same model number, it should have the llcs built in. Is the stock system with dyns going to sound a lot better with the mcintosh hooked up via llcs or should I wait a couple of months to hook up when I get the aftermarket head unit setup? The reason that I ask is because the stock headunit/amplifier probably doesn't put out the cleanest signal and won't the mcintosh just be amplifying a signal that isn't that clean to start with?

***Best way to do this is with the aftermarket amp and aftermarket HU. There's a lot of grunge going on with the stock amp/hu combo.***

Thanks for the clarification on the 4v vs the 8v argument. I know you discussed this issue in "The Book" but I wanted to make sure that Eclipse which is supposed to be "high end" wasn't an exception to the 4v vs 8v. I did make one mistake in the previous post and that is what is my system goal. Basically I want to put a navigation system in my car where I can play dvd's, cd's and mp3's but maintain a relatively high level of sq rather than spl. That is why I did the dyn's and bought the mac amp. I know that mp3's falls outside of the sq area but I have over 31 gigs stripped at 256k and above. Alpine's F#1 status consists of two products, none which cover my system goal except for the sq part. I was looking at going with the TME-M790, DVA-7996 (channel seperation 90 db and s/n 115 db which probably is at 1 khz not 20 -20khz) and then some sort of changer. But from what you said, their changer would be hurting the sq. Is that choice I face with these system goals or should the tme and dva along with mac amp and dyns make me happy?

***If you stick with the Alpine, that's basically all they have. I haven't listened to the units you've mentioned, just the CHA series changers, and those are fair to ok at best. Most companies will have a changer that's rated lower in s/n ratio and channel seperation. Only exception, other than the top end flagship stuff would be the high end (not flagship) Sony C90 w/CDX828 or the Mc MX4000/MX406 with the extremely overbuilt MCD410 changer. The 410 is a piece of work - Black Gate caps, PCM63 20 bit d/a's housed in a PURE thick copper shielding for each channel - the works. The changer itself weighs 24 pounds! But, like I said before, the changer being the weak part of the system is fairly typical of the aftermarket. The TME/DVA should be fairly good though.***

Percy