Denon DCTZ1
11-03-02, 09:44 PM
#16
Search Function Inc.
Personally no, but I am pretty sure they had a few runs with Apogee against the ID DAC20. Not sure about the outcome though.
I have heard a lot of good about Apogee DACs though!
I have heard a lot of good about Apogee DACs though!
11-03-02, 11:56 PM
#17
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Percy said:
Sony's newest and greatest (not yet disclosed) will have SACD decoding with a very high end processor
Sony's newest and greatest (not yet disclosed) will have SACD decoding with a very high end processor
I have found this Sony SACD pic on a Japanese car audio magazine, but I am not sure if this is the unit which Percy is talking about.
I have conducted a similar test using my current source vs. Alpine 7990 in a home audio environment. The reault is very similar to Rick's ID DAC vs. Denon Z1. The Alpine 7990 fall behind in every catergory during the test.
Last edited by Adam_Peng; 11-04-02 at 12:00 AM.
11-04-02, 12:11 AM
#18
Moderator - Electronics Forum
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Adam,
Thanks for the pic! Didn't know Sony had this one. The unit that I'm talking about is the rumored successor to the XES Z50 system. Supposed to make the Z50 look like a toy by comparison. It'll be very interesting to see one of these rumored units in action.
SACD...Don't underestimate one of these bad boys. The SCD1 can be modded so it's easily beating out Levinson's best, Krells best and Linn's best - in regular CD mode. Yes, I'm talking about their 20,000 USD players, not the lower end ones. In SACD mode, if properly modded, things just get downright incredible.
Alpine 7990 - that's the newer model of the legendary 7909 right?
Ok guys...gotta ask all of you this one. Which head unit would you run? Here's the catch...NO COST CONSTRAINTS. (gee, this will be fun!)
Percy
Thanks for the pic! Didn't know Sony had this one. The unit that I'm talking about is the rumored successor to the XES Z50 system. Supposed to make the Z50 look like a toy by comparison. It'll be very interesting to see one of these rumored units in action.
SACD...Don't underestimate one of these bad boys. The SCD1 can be modded so it's easily beating out Levinson's best, Krells best and Linn's best - in regular CD mode. Yes, I'm talking about their 20,000 USD players, not the lower end ones. In SACD mode, if properly modded, things just get downright incredible.
Alpine 7990 - that's the newer model of the legendary 7909 right?
Ok guys...gotta ask all of you this one. Which head unit would you run? Here's the catch...NO COST CONSTRAINTS. (gee, this will be fun!)
Percy
11-04-02, 02:23 AM
#19
Search Function Inc.
From all of our discussions Z1 is almost the same as 7909 as far as quality goes. Now if I was a very smart guy who is only looking into SQ ignoring the looks, I would currently run Eclipse deck as transport (real well designed) and DAC20.
11-04-02, 07:28 AM
#20
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Transports of CD players also play an very important role in quality music reproduction. You will be amazed by the sonic difference when you compare different transports connected to the same DAC.
That's what I choose Philips DC-964 for---The famous Philips CDM-9 transport.
That's what I choose Philips DC-964 for---The famous Philips CDM-9 transport.
Last edited by Adam_Peng; 11-04-02 at 07:34 AM.
11-04-02, 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Percy
...You mention that you're beating out F#1 and P9. My bet - they didn't spend the countless hours of speaker positioning and crossover adjustment that you did. Plus their speakers and component selection (other than the "big processors") might not be up to snuff. For all I know they can be running the 8k$ F#1 Status with Jensen or Kraco speakers. (You never know! ) Or their installation could be questionable (air leaks? Etc...)
Speaker positioning versus active processing (time alignment, etc). There is, imo, no real way of "cheating". They are both in the equation and they both have to be addressed and taken care of.
Percy
...You mention that you're beating out F#1 and P9. My bet - they didn't spend the countless hours of speaker positioning and crossover adjustment that you did. Plus their speakers and component selection (other than the "big processors") might not be up to snuff. For all I know they can be running the 8k$ F#1 Status with Jensen or Kraco speakers. (You never know!
) Or their installation could be questionable (air leaks? Etc...)Speaker positioning versus active processing (time alignment, etc). There is, imo, no real way of "cheating". They are both in the equation and they both have to be addressed and taken care of.
Percy
The systems that I speak of have been built for straight competition. I am 100% sure that the time has been put in to both position the drivers and tune the system.
One system in particular has been tuned by a couple of the big guns including Nick Wingate. It is 100% F#1, speakers, amps, etc... However, the main problem that I see agrees with some of your points, there are some obstacles within a vehicle environment that do not allow for correction. In this case the car itself is the problem (IMO). It is a Corvette Z06. Goergeous vehicle and no doubt it will be a feature car in the mobile audio rags soon.
There is also a car that is my target that runs a P9, a Trans Am owned by Curtis Farrar (great guy and beautiful car - 4th at IASCA Finals this year)...he currently will beat me and the car is phenomenal. But also, I firmly believe that could have got similar sound in the car without the P9.
No "can of worms" meant! It was just one of those "things that make you go, Hmmmmmmm....."
Todd
11-04-02, 02:33 PM
#23
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Thread Starter
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rico's Revenge
[B]
One system in particular has been tuned by a couple of the big guns including Nick Wingate. It is 100% F#1, speakers, amps, etc... However, the main problem that I see agrees with some of your points, there are some obstacles within a vehicle environment that do not allow for correction. In this case the car itself is the problem (IMO). It is a Corvette Z06. Goergeous vehicle and no doubt it will be a feature car in the mobile audio rags soon.
***I"ve listened to the Alpine F#1 Status setup over at Abt Electronics when they were in Morton Grove. Processor and HU...great stuff. Speakers for the F#1 are custom made by Scan Speak - revelator series. As for the amps...ugh. I still don't know why Alpine went with the amps - they're nothing more than slightly hyped up V12 amps. That's the weak spot there!***
Percy
[B]
One system in particular has been tuned by a couple of the big guns including Nick Wingate. It is 100% F#1, speakers, amps, etc... However, the main problem that I see agrees with some of your points, there are some obstacles within a vehicle environment that do not allow for correction. In this case the car itself is the problem (IMO). It is a Corvette Z06. Goergeous vehicle and no doubt it will be a feature car in the mobile audio rags soon.
***I"ve listened to the Alpine F#1 Status setup over at Abt Electronics when they were in Morton Grove. Processor and HU...great stuff. Speakers for the F#1 are custom made by Scan Speak - revelator series. As for the amps...ugh. I still don't know why Alpine went with the amps - they're nothing more than slightly hyped up V12 amps. That's the weak spot there!***
Percy
11-05-02, 02:03 AM
#24
Search Function Inc.
Percy. The Alpine speakers are made by scan speak but they are not revelators. That is what most people in the industry told me about them. Although they are nice, the real Revelators make them look bad. Unfortunately I have no expirence with them. I only listen to F1 with Dynaudio 3way setup. Looking forward to hear them though.
11-05-02, 11:45 AM
#25
Moderator - Electronics Forum
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Retro,
Remember that big thread about the Alpine F#1 - the one where the product manager and a designer (Head Unit) got into it? The product manager was the one who said they were Revelators. He seemed to know his stuff after talking to him for about an hour on the phone.
Never seen a Scan Speak Revelator in person so I can't attest whether or not they're actually using them. Just going by the word of Alpines "top dog".
F#1 with Dyn 340s should be QUITE interesting. Add a Vel and it only gets better.
Percy
Remember that big thread about the Alpine F#1 - the one where the product manager and a designer (Head Unit) got into it? The product manager was the one who said they were Revelators. He seemed to know his stuff after talking to him for about an hour on the phone.
Never seen a Scan Speak Revelator in person so I can't attest whether or not they're actually using them. Just going by the word of Alpines "top dog".
F#1 with Dyn 340s should be QUITE interesting. Add a Vel and it only gets better.
Percy
11-05-02, 03:38 PM
#27
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Thread Starter
Defnitely a high end piece. I'd rate this as higher than the DCTZ1 for a couple of reasons. One is HDCD capability. The other is a seperate power supply (+/-15 volts) for the op amps. The d/a's ride seperately on +/- 5 volt internal rails. Still has 24 bit d/a's, which are quite nice.
Reason why they went with an outboard power supply - more current and less noise. The module inside the box is about 1.5 square inches, much larger than the typical units. Since it's an outboard box (part of the power supply), it need additional room for mounting, but you can locate this module about 4 feet away. The McIntosh MX406, Clarion DRX9255 and other high end Mc pieces have the same arrangement.
Fiber optic output - this is a hybrid copper/fiber arrangement. The sender and receiver are built into the little cable ends - reduces noise from having everything built into the head unit.
Diversity antenna. You can now use both plugs on the GS antenna arrangement. Most of the other HU's out there are only single antenna. Mc and Clarion are known for overbuilt (and among the most sensitve) tuners.
Now heres a bit of triva that most people don't know. The MX406 McIntosh and Clarion DRX9255 (as well as MX4000) use the Alpha processor. Yep - same one as the Denon. Though they don't advertise this as a "feature" like Denon does. McIntosh's schematics list it as the "Alpha Processor". The newer models, the MX5000 (japan only) and the HX-D1 are using HDCD based processors. Good stuff!
Highly recommended. They may be a bit "warm" sounding due to the op amps being used. More than likely OPA2604's from Burr Brown.
Percy
Reason why they went with an outboard power supply - more current and less noise. The module inside the box is about 1.5 square inches, much larger than the typical units. Since it's an outboard box (part of the power supply), it need additional room for mounting, but you can locate this module about 4 feet away. The McIntosh MX406, Clarion DRX9255 and other high end Mc pieces have the same arrangement.
Fiber optic output - this is a hybrid copper/fiber arrangement. The sender and receiver are built into the little cable ends - reduces noise from having everything built into the head unit.
Diversity antenna. You can now use both plugs on the GS antenna arrangement. Most of the other HU's out there are only single antenna. Mc and Clarion are known for overbuilt (and among the most sensitve) tuners.
Now heres a bit of triva that most people don't know. The MX406 McIntosh and Clarion DRX9255 (as well as MX4000) use the Alpha processor. Yep - same one as the Denon. Though they don't advertise this as a "feature" like Denon does. McIntosh's schematics list it as the "Alpha Processor". The newer models, the MX5000 (japan only) and the HX-D1 are using HDCD based processors. Good stuff!
Highly recommended. They may be a bit "warm" sounding due to the op amps being used. More than likely OPA2604's from Burr Brown.
Percy
Last edited by Percy; 11-05-02 at 03:40 PM.
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