I'm considering adding an aftermarket sound system +/- a navigation system to my 01 GS430. Anyone have any experience or any system they'd recommend considering?

Also, anyone have recommendations on places in Maryland to get audio install work done?

Thanks!

 

im a big fan of pioneer premier audio products, nice stuff really. People say the alpine and Kenwood navigations are good.

 

By exterior apperance, Pioneer wins. Although all these 3d menus are kinda ugly. I would get that for my car if I wanted a flip screen. Kenwood has better Nav system. So if you are looking for screen that is molded to your dashboard, Kenwood is simply perfect for that. I need to dig up more info on Alpine, they have never dissapointed me with any of their electronics though.

 

Pioneer all the way! You get more features with the Pioneer Navigation system, and it costs less than the other major brands like Alpine, Kenwood, and Clarion. My friend has the Alpine, and his system can't compare to the features I have.

 

If you want the best user interface, largest database of Points of Interest, and the most reliable navigation system (doesn't reset), choose the Alpine system. Alpine's OEM systems have consistenly placed at the top of JD Power Customer Satisfaction rankings.

If you want a touch-screen user interface, choose the Kenwood navigation system. Denso OEM systems have consistenly placed at the top of JD Power Customer Satisfaction rankings.

If you want a navigation system which plays back DVD video, the Pioneer is the only system with this capability. (BTW, Pioneer has no OEM business.

MMM

 

Overall Kenwood has more features then Alpine or Pioneer. If I was doing a flush mounted screen in the dash nav, there is no other brand I would choose. Pioneer looks so good that I could not pass it up Just got myself a Pioneer Nav system with flipout 7" screen/dvd. See what happens if I get hyped up about certain things on this forum

 

What other useful features does the Kenwood navigation system have over the Alpine and Pioneer systems? Let's look at the facts - Kenwood vs. Alpine:

Kenwood
8 Channel GPS Receiver
Touch Screen Only - must purchase Kenwood expensive touch screen monitor
Compact Flash Slot (not used - no applications written in current version software)
2 Million POIs (NavTech)
ETE (Estimated Time Enroute) Display
8 Languages Voice Guidance
3D Map and Scrolling
Retail Price: $2200 (minimum retail list price)

Alpine
12 Channel GPS Receiver
Remote Control Only
Can work with any video screen (even a $150 LCD) with optional cable/IR Receiver
No Expansion Slot
6 Million POIs (NavTech + InfoUSA)
"Today's Plan" trip planning feature calcs the best visiting order for 8 destinations
ETE or ETA (Estimated Time of Arrival) Display
1 Language Voice Guidance
Announces exit names (Right Exit at Western Ave.)
Navi Mix Function
POI Brand Icons (Mobil, Shell, Texaco, etc.)
Retail Price: $1700 (minimum advertised price)

MMM

 

2002 Kenwood has 2 real practical negative sides. It does not have that many POIs and it does not connect to regular screens.

There is practically no difference if you have 12 or 8 channels of GPS reception since all of these units have built in sensors that are doing great job keeping you on the right spot of the map. In fact Kenwood unit can go on without satellite communication for 30 days (which will never even happen) and still be correctly positioned on the map. The remote control is a little uncomfortable to navigate and takes time to learn while Kenwood is pretty user friendly to anyone besides I would rather have touchscreen just like stock Lexus one.

Alpine may have more POI's last year but Kenwood still has much more map data for rural areas where the Alpine just had blank screens. POI's are a great luxury but actual map data is much more useful.

On top of that it looks like Alpine is keeping their existing NVE-N852A unit for 2003 and Kenwood has the new NAV that eliminates any flaws their previous model had. Have a look at specs:

KNA-DV3100 (2003 Model)
Retail: $1,500
Miles of Map Data: 5.8 Million Miles
Points of Interest: 10 Million POIs
Ability to Navigate by Phone Number
Touch Screen with selectable keyboard ABC or QWERT
Remote Control
Voice Recognition in 7 different languages
Connects to Any Monitor
Extremely simple to use

Overall IMO Kenwood is a better system and touchscreen feature is what makes it so great!

 

IMO, touch screen requires you to look at the screen in order to operate it. No "blind operation" while driving, therefore it becomes a driver distraction.

W.R.T. map data - it's nice to have, but it's all non-navigable data mapped in rural areas. Therefore, turn-by-turn voice instructions are not announced - once again, requiring you to look at the map in order to see where you're going. I agree that having a map to reference is great, but once again, beware of driver distraction.

Alpine will be introducing a new version of their software in the summer which adds rural map data. The Alpine advantage is that it utilizes NavTech's IPD (In-Process Data) maps which do not require "seaming" of third-party maps, which will theoretically provide better map-matching accuracy. The Kenwood/Denso (and Pioneer's) system utilizes GDT map data for rural maps, which require additional compiliation process for "seaming" GDT map data. In my experience with the Denso systems, when traveling in these rural areas, vehicle positioning is not very accurate and drift tends to occur - but again, better than seeing nothing on the screen.

Regarding Kenwood's new system - I hope their claim of "10 Million POIs" does not mean that they are only accessible via phone number input - like the Pioneer system does. Both Pioneer and Kenwood use Denso's standard KIWI database for map and POI data, therefore they might not have enough room to compile a database file for accessing the 10 Million POIs via name input, like in the Alpine system. Just try to find a HOME DEPOT in Pioneer's system via name input - it can't be done. But, when you key in the phone number for your local HOME DEPOT, you can find it.

Anyway, it's exciting to see that Kenwood is releasing a new system (along with showing their concept PDA-enabled navigation system at CES, which should be interesting). I think the aftermarket needs more systems to be brought to market so that navigation industry sales can grow! Even though the aftermarket turn-by-turn GPS navigation system industry is about eight years old, industry sales are meager. Hopefully the new Kenwood/Denso system can stimulate competition from both Alpine and Pioneer to grow the market.

MMM

 

If you want superior unit voice control, great price, tons of features, future system upgradability, split screen views, go with the Pioneer AVIC-9DVD (which is marked down to $999 on some web sites because the AVIC-90DVD just came out), AND get the upgrade AVIC-90DVD DVD disc ($240).

MMM - What Pioneer system are you referring too? You must be referring to a model 2-3 years ago, because my model doesn't have that problem. The Pioneer system I have, the AVIC-9DVD, upgraded to AVIC-90DVD using the newest DVD. If I "SAY" Home Depot, it gives me a listing of the Home Depots in the area, and allows me to choose which one via voice commands like "NEXT", "YES", etc. I haven't had ANY problems finding a major store like that, and as far as the streets. The DVD has streets marked that will be completed NEXT year, and shows those streets in a different color. If you have the optional CUE unit, the Nav system TELLS you about traffic/weather conditions, and suggest different routes to avoid traffic jams.

The Pioneer AVIC-9DVD allows you to control the entire nav system via voice commands, which is better than touch screen IMHO. I can control the way the navigation looks (there are over 4 different ways including a split screen view showing the car/street, and the directions at the same time. It allows me to select different POIs by saying "Shopping" for malls in the area, or "Chinese" if I want Chinese food in the area. The unit has hundreds of voice commands to control the system. I can store phone numbers, and address of my friends, and just speak a person's name, and the phone number, and address comes up.
I can also control the volume of my radio, change the CD, etc via voice commands also. The GUI interface is easy to use, and straight forward.

The Pioneer is cheaper $1200 (500-800 savings in some cases), seamlessly controls other Pioneer units, and is upgradable via upgrade DVDs. I have friends with both the Alpine, and Kenwood; and they both wish they had gotten the Pioneer. We tried different addresses on all the units to see what they would recommend, and ALL of them basically suggested the same routes. The Kenwood screen gets dirty from the fingerprints, and the Alpine is cumbersome to use while driving and getting detailed instruction via the interface. With the Pioneer, just say what you want it to do!

 

Ahh, great to see that someone has some good knowledge on NAV units. Always interesting to hear some oppinions from people who are well informed. I guess Alpine vs Kenwood is a prefferance issue.

One thing that still separates them is that touchscreen (2003 Kenwood has remote also). Although Alpine gets their DVD update, they are not changing their hardware. I am pretty sure that Alpine will catch up on that feature very soon since all these manufacturers follow each other's lines pretty close.

As far as that new Japanese unti at CES goes, it is not going to be avaliable for at least another 2 years. I have seen the unit but never got a chance to play with it. Did you check out the features MMM?

LexCiting, I just picked up the AVIC-90DVD unit at cost Can't wait to play around with it!

 

Lexciting:
I'm referring to the AVIC-9DVD system using remote control for input. I'll check out the system using voice commands, as you mentioned. I find it strange that they would build a database that's accessible via voice, but not via remote name input.

Oh, and did you know that besides the software, the new AVIC-90DVD now has a built in monitor power supply for stand-alone Pioneer monitors? That's really the only hardware difference between that and the AVIC-9DVD. Yet, they were able to win a CES Innovations award for the new system. It kinda tells you something about those judges for the Innovations award.

I know that, like Kenwood, the Pioneer system uses Denso's KIWI database. Therefore, non-navigable roads are viewable in the system.

And as for CUE Traffic, too bad they're out of business. It was a good concept, but they feared competition from wireless carriers, satellite digital radio providers, terrestrial digital radio providers and other pipelines, causing them to go bye-bye.

The main problem I find with the Pioneer unit is its user interface. Not very intuitive at all, from a human factors point of view. The colors are of a very soft, pastel palette, with white characters on top, making it difficult to read. The voice instructions are announced in tenths-of-a-mile, whereas the Alpine and Kenwood systems announce them in quarters-of-a-mile (like you see in highway signs for upcoming exits). And, at least when integrated with their 1st generation audio/video systems, there is no announcement of voice prompts over the audio system - instead, they are announced over a cheap piezo speaker. So, from a pure navigation standpoint, not a very good system, IMO.

Pioneer's Audio/Video/Navi systems in Japan are a different story. Just one word: WOW.

Retrodrive:
Thanks for the welcome! I completely agree with it being a preference issue. I myself would like to see Alpine come out with a touch screen monitor, as well as come out with some new hardware! The NVE-N851A was first sold in 1999, with only minimal hardware changes when the NVE-N852A came out! So really, Alpine is competing with a system that's about four years old! What I'd like to see from Alpine in the aftermarket is the new system they put in the 2003 Honda Accord. They worked with IBM on the voice recognition portion which I hear is extremely good, both in user interface and in accuracy. Pair that up with a touch-screen, VGA screen (like the new IVA-D900), and you're pimpin!

As for the other nav systems at CES, I think Kenwood will be exciting to watch in 2003. This time at the show they had Denso personnel answering questions. They know their stuff because they build the systems. I couldn't get many details from Kenwood folks at the CES 2002.

As you might've guessed, I work in the industry. Though I'd love to spend more time in these discussions, I don't have that much time. But, if you have a question about navigation or telematics, just post and I'll be glad to ring in my two cents every now and then.



MMM

 

Pioneer for sure. Since I already have the Pioneer head unit and flip screen. I will just mount the Pioneer DVD/Navi unit below that. Plus getting the unit for $1550 also helps. lol.. Thats like almost a $1000 discount on that unit.

 

Eric, you going to pay HOW MUCH for that unit? They are on e-bay all day every day going for $1200 new and it is possible to get it below $1000 if you know dealers. I hope you are talking about $1500 for both, flipscreen and DVD.

MMM, what exactly do you do? What part of the industry? Would it be Alpine part by any chance?

 

My friend just goes to a wharehouse to fill his orders and I just tag along So basically everything 40-50 off reatil no tax. Yes $1550 for both. But lucky for me Im not a autohead or I would never stop spending.

Plus E-Bay, I am not very fond of, who knows if it is used or refurbished. or if you can even trust someone you cannot see in person. I will never bye off E-Bay.