Velodyne's FOUND - Ending VERY SOON!
04-24-03, 08:50 AM
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Velodyne's FOUND - Ending VERY SOON!
If you're looking for this setup I found it on your favorite auction site in 10 inch and 12 inch. It's not mine and I considered going for it myself, but decided against it after talking to someone at Velodyne.
I cant post the link, but search for "Velodyne DF"
Good luck!
I cant post the link, but search for "Velodyne DF"
Good luck!
04-24-03, 09:34 AM
#2
G35x - RWD/AWD goodness
Re: Velodyne's FOUND - Ending VERY SOON!
Originally posted by Stealther
... but decided against it after talking to someone at Velodyne.
... but decided against it after talking to someone at Velodyne.
Overclocker
04-24-03, 01:20 PM
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Re: Re: Velodyne's FOUND - Ending VERY SOON!
Originally posted by Overclocker
What did your person at Velodyne have to say about them?
What did your person at Velodyne have to say about them?
- Very little or no support available for them, pretty much only one guy at Velodyne knows anything beyond the conceptual on this product now. All the engineers and designers who worked on this have long since left the company.
- ZERO parts/components available for repairs. Even the equipment they used to make the cones are long gone.
- He said that on paper it looked awesome, but he admited that they knew nothing about 12v systems and when it came to implementing this it turned out to not be as good as they thought (sensitive, overly complicated to setup)
- He said that even though people say they want sound quality first, they really want it to play loud as well. These didn't play loud, period. I laughed when he said, "I'm 65yrs old and I didnt think it was loud enough". He had two 12s.
- He guessed that 80% of the used ones being sold nowadays have something wrong with them.
Really plesant guy to talk to, you could tell by all his sighs that he had experienced a lot of issues with them and didn't want to have someone pay a lot for the product and be dissapointed. He did say that properly configured it sounded excellent (parked in a parking lot), but if something ever happened to it, or if you wanted to play it while going 75mph down the highway you would most likely be disapointed.
They sold most of their surplus to Japan, he said "They must have just put them on a shelf and bowed to them" because he didnt think they actually installed them since they got very few calls for support, which was the opposite from what they experienced from people here in the US.
If I was able to listen to a setup before I bought it, I might change my mind, but an internet purchase where who knows what might be wrong with it, and no support from the manufacturer (not to mention they are $$$) pointed me to a more conventional subwoofer path.
Summary, great if you get a good one, but better hope nothing happens to it.
04-24-03, 02:27 PM
#4
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Re: Re: Re: Velodyne's FOUND - Ending VERY SOON!
Originally posted by Stealther
I have to say that I was pretty much sold on getting a 12" Velodyne, but after I spoke to one of the product support guys at Velodyne that got nixed. From the very start he basically told me DO NOT buy one of these in used condition if at all. I must say I was quite surprised by that response! I asked him why he felt so strongly negative about those subs and he gave me a list of reasons, here are some.
- Very little or no support available for them, pretty much only one guy at Velodyne knows anything beyond the conceptual on this product now. All the engineers and designers who worked on this have long since left the company.
***Scarry! The design itself is basically a feedback loop using comparitors and other logic. Not too difficult to reverse engineer. Most of the guts are on the main servo board and the only electronics on the sub itself are the two accelerometers. The accelerometers appear to be of a generic type since you're only dealing with frequency lower than 160 hz. Even at the "10x" rule, it'll still be at around 2khz tops for the accelerometers.***
- ZERO parts/components available for repairs. Even the equipment they used to make the cones are long gone.
***That's the only real part that worries me are the cones and the formers for the voice coil. The logic and accelerometers you can pick up at Digikey or any other larger parts stores.***
- He said that on paper it looked awesome, but he admited that they knew nothing about 12v systems and when it came to implementing this it turned out to not be as good as they thought (sensitive, overly complicated to setup)
***They're sensitive to the lower frequency end and the amp that is supplied HAS to be good to near DC (0 hz) level. That's why the earlier Zapco amps weren't recommended...subsonic filtering. There was a british format magazine that wrote up a review on the DF12sc...the reviewer remarked that the DF12sc Velodyne was TOO GOOD for the marketplace.***
- He said that even though people say they want sound quality first, they really want it to play loud as well. These didn't play loud, period. I laughed when he said, "I'm 65yrs old and I didnt think it was loud enough". He had two 12s.
***They top off at 113 dB, A weighted. Any more and the distortion/correction circuitry will kick in. Now if you turn off the circuitry and let it run as a "regular" sub....
***
- He guessed that 80% of the used ones being sold nowadays have something wrong with them.
***Not surprised with all the logic involved.***
Really plesant guy to talk to, you could tell by all his sighs that he had experienced a lot of issues with them and didn't want to have someone pay a lot for the product and be dissapointed. He did say that properly configured it sounded excellent (parked in a parking lot), but if something ever happened to it, or if you wanted to play it while going 75mph down the highway you would most likely be disapointed.
***Never been disappointed yet with the Vel...even at near triple digit speeds. The reason for the other accelerometer is to monitor the motion of the subwoofer BASKET, that is, it'll correct for any distortion the car is causing! One heck of a system.***
They sold most of their surplus to Japan, he said "They must have just put them on a shelf and bowed to them" because he didnt think they actually installed them since they got very few calls for support, which was the opposite from what they experienced from people here in the US.
***One of the most common comments was that the setup was "too complicated" for the average installer. If you use a bit of common sense, some logical thinking and can follow instructions, then it not a bad setup at all. But, the Brit mag did mention "Don't make this your first installation." Oops...that was my first sub install and it went off without a hitch. *
If I was able to listen to a setup before I bought it, I might change my mind, but an internet purchase where who knows what might be wrong with it, and no support from the manufacturer (not to mention they are $$$) pointed me to a more conventional subwoofer path.
***Don't blame you there. You can listen to the equivalent in a home setup...Vel still sells the home gear. Best bet is to listen to an older FR1200 or something circa 1996. That's what the DF12sc and DF10sc were based on.***
Summary, great if you get a good one, but better hope nothing happens to it.
I have to say that I was pretty much sold on getting a 12" Velodyne, but after I spoke to one of the product support guys at Velodyne that got nixed. From the very start he basically told me DO NOT buy one of these in used condition if at all. I must say I was quite surprised by that response! I asked him why he felt so strongly negative about those subs and he gave me a list of reasons, here are some.
- Very little or no support available for them, pretty much only one guy at Velodyne knows anything beyond the conceptual on this product now. All the engineers and designers who worked on this have long since left the company.
***Scarry! The design itself is basically a feedback loop using comparitors and other logic. Not too difficult to reverse engineer. Most of the guts are on the main servo board and the only electronics on the sub itself are the two accelerometers. The accelerometers appear to be of a generic type since you're only dealing with frequency lower than 160 hz. Even at the "10x" rule, it'll still be at around 2khz tops for the accelerometers.***
- ZERO parts/components available for repairs. Even the equipment they used to make the cones are long gone.
***That's the only real part that worries me are the cones and the formers for the voice coil. The logic and accelerometers you can pick up at Digikey or any other larger parts stores.***
- He said that on paper it looked awesome, but he admited that they knew nothing about 12v systems and when it came to implementing this it turned out to not be as good as they thought (sensitive, overly complicated to setup)
***They're sensitive to the lower frequency end and the amp that is supplied HAS to be good to near DC (0 hz) level. That's why the earlier Zapco amps weren't recommended...subsonic filtering. There was a british format magazine that wrote up a review on the DF12sc...the reviewer remarked that the DF12sc Velodyne was TOO GOOD for the marketplace.***
- He said that even though people say they want sound quality first, they really want it to play loud as well. These didn't play loud, period. I laughed when he said, "I'm 65yrs old and I didnt think it was loud enough". He had two 12s.
***They top off at 113 dB, A weighted. Any more and the distortion/correction circuitry will kick in. Now if you turn off the circuitry and let it run as a "regular" sub....
***- He guessed that 80% of the used ones being sold nowadays have something wrong with them.
***Not surprised with all the logic involved.***
Really plesant guy to talk to, you could tell by all his sighs that he had experienced a lot of issues with them and didn't want to have someone pay a lot for the product and be dissapointed. He did say that properly configured it sounded excellent (parked in a parking lot), but if something ever happened to it, or if you wanted to play it while going 75mph down the highway you would most likely be disapointed.
***Never been disappointed yet with the Vel...even at near triple digit speeds.
The reason for the other accelerometer is to monitor the motion of the subwoofer BASKET, that is, it'll correct for any distortion the car is causing! One heck of a system.***They sold most of their surplus to Japan, he said "They must have just put them on a shelf and bowed to them" because he didnt think they actually installed them since they got very few calls for support, which was the opposite from what they experienced from people here in the US.
***One of the most common comments was that the setup was "too complicated" for the average installer. If you use a bit of common sense, some logical thinking and can follow instructions, then it not a bad setup at all. But, the Brit mag did mention "Don't make this your first installation." Oops...that was my first sub install and it went off without a hitch.
*If I was able to listen to a setup before I bought it, I might change my mind, but an internet purchase where who knows what might be wrong with it, and no support from the manufacturer (not to mention they are $$$) pointed me to a more conventional subwoofer path.
***Don't blame you there. You can listen to the equivalent in a home setup...Vel still sells the home gear. Best bet is to listen to an older FR1200 or something circa 1996. That's what the DF12sc and DF10sc were based on.***
Summary, great if you get a good one, but better hope nothing happens to it.
Percy
