image dynamics or w7's
09-02-03, 06:12 PM
#31
Originally posted by GaryDell
In case my opinion matters, I would put my money on the fact that if you had a W7/MAX in your trunk and someone replaced it with the other (without your knowing), you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. SPL gain of the W7 due to displacement should be marginal. I would go with the IDMAX simply due to price.
And because no one ever seems to ask the person when the query about installing uber systems like yourself, what speakers do you plan on actually using to keep up with this setup? Obviously you aren't competing as you have opted for the sealed enclosure. Even if you go with a pair of 8's per door and HLCD's, you're going to have a tough time getting a frequency response that's even moderately flat without some serious EQing. Again, in case my opinion matters, I would go with ONE sub, ~600watts, and spend the rest of that money burning a hole in your pocket on components/power/install. But then again, I enjoy hearing the lyrics to my music, so YMMV...
In case my opinion matters, I would put my money on the fact that if you had a W7/MAX in your trunk and someone replaced it with the other (without your knowing), you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. SPL gain of the W7 due to displacement should be marginal. I would go with the IDMAX simply due to price.
And because no one ever seems to ask the person when the query about installing uber systems like yourself, what speakers do you plan on actually using to keep up with this setup? Obviously you aren't competing as you have opted for the sealed enclosure. Even if you go with a pair of 8's per door and HLCD's, you're going to have a tough time getting a frequency response that's even moderately flat without some serious EQing. Again, in case my opinion matters, I would go with ONE sub, ~600watts, and spend the rest of that money burning a hole in your pocket on components/power/install. But then again, I enjoy hearing the lyrics to my music, so YMMV...
The thing that disappoints me about the W7 is the price.
Last edited by LS400; 09-02-03 at 06:18 PM.
09-02-03, 06:13 PM
#32
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I go to car shows to compete as well I have to use a sealed box because a ported box will not fit in my gs with that many subs even if I use 3 subs it might not fit also I am going with the idmax because you can get them in a dual 2 ohm or dual 4 ohm setup where the jl's com in 1.5 ohms or 3 ohms it's a little harder to work with
09-03-03, 07:25 AM
#34
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You lack enclosure space, want to power 3 drivers, and want low frequency output? Remember Hoffman's Iron Law:
"Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). The obvious implication is that to reduce the cutoff frequency by a factor of two, e.g. from 40 Hz to 20 Hz, while still retaining the same system efficiency, you need to increase the enclosure volume by 23=8 times! In other words, to reproduce ever lower frequencies at the same output level you need an extremely large box!"
Depending on how large you manage to get the enclosure, you may have a higher F3 than desirable. I think a single driver in a properly designed ported enclosure would sound great, get plenty loud, and would be much cheaper to boot.
"Hoffman's Iron Law states that the efficiency of a woofer system is directly proportional to its cabinet volume and the cube of its cutoff frequency (the lowest frequency it can usefully reproduce). The obvious implication is that to reduce the cutoff frequency by a factor of two, e.g. from 40 Hz to 20 Hz, while still retaining the same system efficiency, you need to increase the enclosure volume by 23=8 times! In other words, to reproduce ever lower frequencies at the same output level you need an extremely large box!"
Depending on how large you manage to get the enclosure, you may have a higher F3 than desirable. I think a single driver in a properly designed ported enclosure would sound great, get plenty loud, and would be much cheaper to boot.
09-03-03, 12:19 PM
#35
Just to clear things up once again: I don't mean to start an argument here, but just to clarify...
LS400, maybe you misunderstood what I meant. The "rockin the neighborhood" that I refer to is EXACTLY the same ballpark as SPL. If you're cranked loud enough that the you're heard for literally blocks away, you tend not to be scoring high in the SQ category, and are more about cranking out SPL, and imbalanced over frequency at that..
"but the daily-booming is about sounding loud to the human ear (lower frequencies) while SPL is scoring high on the meters (higher frequencies)"
While, yes, an SPL meter is measuring the overall integrated output across all frequencies, there is only a very minor contribution from the mid and high freq regions. The predominant power components are 500 Hz and below. The mid and high freq drivers simply do not move enough air to contribute significantly to the aggregate SPL. Otherwise you'd be seeing people putting way more power into the highs and mids, and manufacturers making high-excursion tweeters, ha-ha.
Note that source material for SPL competitions is usually a sine-sweep below 150Hz. This is where all the power is, this IS what sounds and feels loud, and this is what pushes the number up on the SPL meter.
What will make you deaf the quickest are high frequencies that are too loud or distorted. Your ears have a greater tolerance for high volume low frequencies, but cannot tolerate loud/distorted highs and mids nearly as well.
LS400, maybe you misunderstood what I meant. The "rockin the neighborhood" that I refer to is EXACTLY the same ballpark as SPL. If you're cranked loud enough that the you're heard for literally blocks away, you tend not to be scoring high in the SQ category, and are more about cranking out SPL, and imbalanced over frequency at that..
"but the daily-booming is about sounding loud to the human ear (lower frequencies) while SPL is scoring high on the meters (higher frequencies)"
While, yes, an SPL meter is measuring the overall integrated output across all frequencies, there is only a very minor contribution from the mid and high freq regions. The predominant power components are 500 Hz and below. The mid and high freq drivers simply do not move enough air to contribute significantly to the aggregate SPL. Otherwise you'd be seeing people putting way more power into the highs and mids, and manufacturers making high-excursion tweeters, ha-ha.
Note that source material for SPL competitions is usually a sine-sweep below 150Hz. This is where all the power is, this IS what sounds and feels loud, and this is what pushes the number up on the SPL meter.
What will make you deaf the quickest are high frequencies that are too loud or distorted. Your ears have a greater tolerance for high volume low frequencies, but cannot tolerate loud/distorted highs and mids nearly as well.
Originally posted by LS400
Just to clear things up.
The daily-driving "rocking the neighborhood" type of music is far from SPL. Those are two entirely separate ballparks.
I agree that they both are about getting loud, but the daily-booming is about sounding loud to the human ear (lower frequencies) while SPL is scoring high on the meters (higher frequencies). They can still both make you deaf though. 
Engin_ear is correct about the IDMAX topping over the W7 in quality. Since you're a rap head like me, I would probably choose the W7 in this case. But the IDMAX will not disappoint if you decide to go with that route. Best way to choose, flip a coin. J/K.
Just to clear things up.
The daily-driving "rocking the neighborhood" type of music is far from SPL. Those are two entirely separate ballparks.
I agree that they both are about getting loud, but the daily-booming is about sounding loud to the human ear (lower frequencies) while SPL is scoring high on the meters (higher frequencies). They can still both make you deaf though. Engin_ear is correct about the IDMAX topping over the W7 in quality. Since you're a rap head like me, I would probably choose the W7 in this case. But the IDMAX will not disappoint if you decide to go with that route. Best way to choose, flip a coin.
J/K.
09-03-03, 07:35 PM
#36
Originally posted by engin_ear
Just to clear things up once again: I don't mean to start an argument here, but just to clarify...
LS400, maybe you misunderstood what I meant. The "rockin the neighborhood" that I refer to is EXACTLY the same ballpark as SPL. If you're cranked loud enough that the you're heard for literally blocks away, you tend not to be scoring high in the SQ category, and are more about cranking out SPL, and imbalanced over frequency at that..
"but the daily-booming is about sounding loud to the human ear (lower frequencies) while SPL is scoring high on the meters (higher frequencies)"
While, yes, an SPL meter is measuring the overall integrated output across all frequencies, there is only a very minor contribution from the mid and high freq regions. The predominant power components are 500 Hz and below. The mid and high freq drivers simply do not move enough air to contribute significantly to the aggregate SPL. Otherwise you'd be seeing people putting way more power into the highs and mids, and manufacturers making high-excursion tweeters, ha-ha.
Note that source material for SPL competitions is usually a sine-sweep below 150Hz. This is where all the power is, this IS what sounds and feels loud, and this is what pushes the number up on the SPL meter.
What will make you deaf the quickest are high frequencies that are too loud or distorted. Your ears have a greater tolerance for high volume low frequencies, but cannot tolerate loud/distorted highs and mids nearly as well.
Just to clear things up once again: I don't mean to start an argument here, but just to clarify...
LS400, maybe you misunderstood what I meant. The "rockin the neighborhood" that I refer to is EXACTLY the same ballpark as SPL. If you're cranked loud enough that the you're heard for literally blocks away, you tend not to be scoring high in the SQ category, and are more about cranking out SPL, and imbalanced over frequency at that..
"but the daily-booming is about sounding loud to the human ear (lower frequencies) while SPL is scoring high on the meters (higher frequencies)"
While, yes, an SPL meter is measuring the overall integrated output across all frequencies, there is only a very minor contribution from the mid and high freq regions. The predominant power components are 500 Hz and below. The mid and high freq drivers simply do not move enough air to contribute significantly to the aggregate SPL. Otherwise you'd be seeing people putting way more power into the highs and mids, and manufacturers making high-excursion tweeters, ha-ha.
Note that source material for SPL competitions is usually a sine-sweep below 150Hz. This is where all the power is, this IS what sounds and feels loud, and this is what pushes the number up on the SPL meter.
What will make you deaf the quickest are high frequencies that are too loud or distorted. Your ears have a greater tolerance for high volume low frequencies, but cannot tolerate loud/distorted highs and mids nearly as well.
It's hard to explain slightly-more "complex" acoustical/audio stuff through the internet, hehe (my hands get tired from typing, hehehe). By the way, I believe you mis-understood my "low" and "high" frequencies statement. By "low(er)" frequencies, I'm referring to 40 hertz and below. For "high(er)" frequencies, I'm referring to basically 50 hertz+. No mids and highs here (at least not for SPL).
A good-short discussion.
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