RMMGS4

iTrader: (5)

I second the Arc/Zap recommendation. If you have the budget,why go JL, especially if you want SQ?

My Zapco 100w just went head to head w/Jawnthen's JL 300w as noted previously. Another key contributor to my FA woofer performance? Better believe it.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, I don't have a set budget in mind. Don't want to go all out, more interested in function (and fixing my sound issue) than show.

I couldn't find much information on IDMAX 10", their site doesn't list it.
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/website/tech/index.html

Called them and there is a local shop that carries them, but they're the guys who botched up building the box in the first place....

No Zapco dealers nearby... only two in the state about 2 hour drive minimum. No ARC in a three state radius.

retrodrive

Some subs are designed to work in IB. IDMAX is one of them. Boxes bring out peaks in subs which can really be irritating unless you have a 30 band EQ. IB is the most balanced application as far as peaks go followe by the well tuned ported setups. Yes you will sacrafice the output but the quality will go up drastically. Besides you would not be able to tell if my subs are IB or not once you listen to my system. I get a lot of surprised looks even from the top people in the industry who listen to my car.

johnee78: what exactly is your expirence with IB setups? What subs?

jawnthen

Dave,
I wouldn't say my setup is muddy. Glen's setup has just a bit more definition and detail. Its most appearent in its impact to the midbass. Now the reason, we're thinking the sub has a lot to do with that is cuz Glen's mids are still stock. If I go with his setup with my Dyn's, I'm thinking the overall sound will improve.
I don't have any sort of bass controller, but I have been looking into getting some time alignment circuitry. Since the sub is way in the back on the rear deck and the mids are close by in the doors, I might be able get better response if the sub and midbass drivers are time aligned.
Looking at your setup and what you describe, I would agree that you're system is "underpowered". The first thing I would do is get a better amp. Once you've decided on a amp manufacturer, get as much power as you can afford.

--jonathan

johnee78

iTrader: (4)

I have a 93 gs300 and I previously had a kicker 12 F/A and a jl IB4 12 inch with 200 watts.I wanted a more tight bass that hit lower freq. So I went with a JL 12w3d4 in a sealed enclosure with only 200 watts.It's only fare that specify that my system consist of a PG line driver, PG 30 band Eq, and a PG basscube to tune my bass to how I like to listen to it.I made a sealed fiberglass box (about 1.15 cu. ft.) that was molded to the gas tank and mounted under the factory opening.It was a real PITA!! But it was totally worth it.I'm not saying that a F/A doesn't work but it didn't hit all the low freq.You also have to understand that by using an IDmax 12 you will need alot more power than 200 watts.Also in my car the gas tank is under the rear deck and the depth of the IDmax is tooo deep.I did my research on subs for MY application and the air space,power handling, and reliability were all taken into consideration,that why with the JL audio.If I were to try another sub in the furure I would probably try either Image or elemental designs(ED).

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

DaveGS4 wrote:
"Do you guys think that simply adding more power to the sub could solve the 'muddy' sound issue? "

Dave, the muddiness can come from 3 sources: a) inadequate woofer with limited ability to control its own mechanics (the JL is a likely suspect), b) inadequate power (yes, upping the amp power should help control the woofer's dynamics - also try to get an amp with a high 'damping factor'), and c) the geometry of your trunk/car vs. where and how you've mounted the woofer. On this last one, you're at the mercy of your installation - there can be extra unwanted reflections and panel vibrations that are sneaking into your music. Sound deadening will also help with this. Direct firing into the cabin without firing into the trunk first will help with this. Once you're all said and done you can add EQ, but unless you want to just throw one in there, might as well build it and see what you get.
I also recommend the IDMAX 10 or 12, unless you only listen to rap - if that be the case, go JL.

400DGRZ

iTrader: (2)

Any updated information on this?

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

How timely that you bumped this thread, I just had most of the work completed last weekend that I outlined above. I'm not quite content with the way the third brakelight removal (purely from a cosmetic perspective) and am searching for additional options to improve the back deck appearance such as RMM mentioned. Sound is much improved, but not quite at 100% what I want (more like 85 - 90%).

I'll do a writeup on what pieces I undertook this weekend when I'm back home and can take some pictures.

tmasta

hey dave,

i had the SAME questions u did. and kinda still do. i have the 240s and the IB4 12 in the rear.. with some quartz my brother had layin around for fill. i have the mc440.. i thikn tahts what it is. the 6 channel mc amp. (4*50, 2 *100) it seems to sound sufficient for my taste. if u r ever in the area it'll be cool to compare.. im actually near swift racing so maybe when the weather warms up. not sure if i even tried to answer your questions! hahah sorry.. just yappin on!

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

UPDATE

I've finished the first phase of my minor update as mentioned previously... To address the goals I outlined above, I took the following steps:

1) Replaced my old 5 channel Alpine with a JL 500/5. I had the JL mounted inset in a 1/2 height custom carpet covered false wall that covers the wiring ins & outs of the amp, but still allows for cooling. A couple of pics below.


I need to do something about the big holes in my trunk liner from my STB install as seen in the pic above. Any ideas?



The new amp has a decent jump in power... 250 watts to the sub channel vs 100 watts from the old one, 100 watts to the front vs 40 and 25 watts to the rear vs 40 watts (less power to the rear). Specs here.

I chose this amp for a couple of reasons: a) it was an intermediate step that met most of the qualities I was was looking for with both power / physical size and b) it's lighter than a multiple-amp solution would be. I'd prefer having a bit more power to the rear channels, but they're more for fill than primary sound.

2) Upgraded the power wiring from the battery to support the new amp. Now using an 4 gauge red streetwires kit vs the 8 gauge I had previously.

3) I kept my existing 10” W3 JL sub and the existing custom box.

4) Removed third brake light entirely and disconnected the bulb warning light. This eliminated a big source of rattling from the deck and an eyesore that has bothered me for years.

5) Covered third brakelight with grill cloth and installed Dynamat kit under deck, trunk lid and license plate.

The Dynamat made a big sonic difference, but I'm not entirely happy with the visual results on the back deck. The approach the installer and I agreed too in theory was to stretch a piece of grill cloth on a custom frame from the top of the subwoofer grill straight back to the edge of the window. The problem is that while the piece looked great on the deck when it was out of the car, the deck flexes when snapped in place in the car. When you look at the end result from the side, you can see that the fabric is not quite taught in the shallow area of the deck. The color isn't a perfect match either... not bad, but could be better. It's better than with the third brakelight, but I'm not going to leave it like this for long.



You can see the gap against the back deck here.




6) Installed a JL remote bass control ****, mounted nearly out of sight just below the parking brake handle. I know there are more advanced bass control devices out there, but with the factory head unit I'm limited with my options. This **** allows me to turn the subwoofer level up & down without impacting the bass level settings of the primary speakers driven from the head unit. A big improvement in flexibility for me.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Sonic Results

The install took two trips due to some scheduling issues (plus I had more work done (below)). When I went the first time (initial amp install) I made sure to take a CD with a song where the 'muddy' sound that bothered me so much was very apparent. The song is 'Breathe' by Prodigy from their "The Fat of the Land' CD (Clip might play if you click here). There's a recurring bass rythmn in that song that rumbled like mad in my car with the old setup and drove me nuts... it was like when you roll just one window down on the highway in a car and it reverberates all around.

The first install got the amp in and 3/4s of the dynamat done (leaving the cover and alarm for the next trip). The installer tuned the amp specifically to get rid of the rumble in the Prodigy song. When I picked up the car I was very disappointed in the outcome. The overall sound quality was almost the same as the Alpine and the gain was turned down so much the entire stereo felt weaker. The Prodigy song sounded better though .

When I took it back to get the remainder of the work done, I took two trays of CDs and asked that the system be retuned using them. I removed the Prodigy CD altogether and had a good mix of my typical listening music. All original, no burned MP3s

The second tuning result was MUCH better and I'm probably 90% - 95% to my sonic goal. The front image is better and louder - the Dynaudios definitely sound better with more power to 'em. Subwoofer is strong but not overbearing with all types of music. That damn Prodigy song still isn't perfect, but I can turn the sub down with the JL **** now . Overall very pleased with the sonic outcome.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

While they were working on the car, I decided to get an alarm (Viper 850) installed. I've been worried about the factory alarm being sufficient enough to be an effective deterrent with all my mods. I know if somebody really wants to take it they will, but at least it'll scream a bit more.

LED install below. I won't go into detail on all the sensors, etc.

Lexkost

You can use this to cover you strut towers:

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Ooh, that's a pretty good idea. Saw crutchfield had some 3 1/2" x 3 1/4" that might work nicely. Cut a discrete slice with an exacto to let it fit over the bar w/o taking it off and a small hole at the end for the STB.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-qxWVZNT...=0&cc=01&avf=N

The closest thing I'd come up with was sliding something similar to this over the bar, but was uncertain if it would flare out enough to cover the large hardware hole. http://www.cableorganizer.com/cable-snake/

Good idea, thanks!

Lexkost

I would cut it so bar fits, then cut trunk carpet to match diameter of the cover then a little silicone on the flanged part of cover and install it under carpet.