1st Exotic Lexus......New Lexus GT 450/500 (new scans/info)
03-08-06, 12:48 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Bean
Use your head for a second there. There are such things as engine options. Not all BMW 5 series cost as much as an M5 nor do they have the same options. So by the logic stated here, why does the GS compete with the 5 series when the M5 costs a LOT more?
A V6 Supra could be priced at $30k-$35k and wreak havoc on 350z, EVO, and STi sales. That GR motor makes more power than stated (puts down more to the wheels through an auto tranny than the VQ through a manual) and would make a pretty nasty GT car.
A V6 Supra running the GR motor with a manual tranny on a shortened IS chassis at around 3300-3400lbs would be pretty nasty. 1/4 mile low 13s at around 107ish I'd imagine. At least as fast as the SupraTT was stock.
GT-R will be nice, but it won't be competing with the 997 turbo OR the LF-A. Maybe the 996 turbo?
A V6 Supra could be priced at $30k-$35k and wreak havoc on 350z, EVO, and STi sales. That GR motor makes more power than stated (puts down more to the wheels through an auto tranny than the VQ through a manual) and would make a pretty nasty GT car.
A V6 Supra running the GR motor with a manual tranny on a shortened IS chassis at around 3300-3400lbs would be pretty nasty. 1/4 mile low 13s at around 107ish I'd imagine. At least as fast as the SupraTT was stock.
GT-R will be nice, but it won't be competing with the 997 turbo OR the LF-A. Maybe the 996 turbo?
Luxury brands have the market to have a high priced trim in its model line-up.
Toyota just can't sell a 30-35k base Supra and then a 60-80k V8 Supra with nothing in between, that price range would be something for a Lexus model
03-10-06, 12:13 AM
#32
Originally Posted by xioix
That is why I said the Supra would be competing with the Z, or a class higher, like more Boxster S.
Luxury brands have the market to have a high priced trim in its model line-up.
Toyota just can't sell a 30-35k base Supra and then a 60-80k V8 Supra with nothing in between, that price range would be something for a Lexus model
Luxury brands have the market to have a high priced trim in its model line-up.
Toyota just can't sell a 30-35k base Supra and then a 60-80k V8 Supra with nothing in between, that price range would be something for a Lexus model
I dont think anyone has mentioned a V8 supra would sell for 60k-80k; I think you're being a little overdramatic about it. Toyota probably doesnt care to compete with Nissan over the GTR... it will only be a "brand image" car anyways for the most part. I'd never spend over $60k on a 4000lb "sports" car
03-10-06, 12:34 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by Bean
Who said they'd sell a V8 supra for 60-80k? No one would ever buy it. It'd be priced more around $40k-$50k in the Corvette realm; which would be very doable... there are several lexus and toyota models than span $15k in their engine and car options.
I dont think anyone has mentioned a V8 supra would sell for 60k-80k; I think you're being a little overdramatic about it. Toyota probably doesnt care to compete with Nissan over the GTR... it will only be a "brand image" car anyways for the most part. I'd never spend over $60k on a 4000lb "sports" car
I dont think anyone has mentioned a V8 supra would sell for 60k-80k; I think you're being a little overdramatic about it. Toyota probably doesnt care to compete with Nissan over the GTR... it will only be a "brand image" car anyways for the most part. I'd never spend over $60k on a 4000lb "sports" car
03-12-06, 08:38 AM
#34
Expecting a V8 Supra to play in a $60K-$80K realm, you're forgetting one thing...the SC. Toyota cannot overlap prices, drivetrain configurations, engines, and power figures with Lexus products and history shows that they won't. I think a $60K Toyota would be a flop, no matter what it was.
Another thing to consider with the Supra argument is that an IS coupe is expected right around the corner. How could Toyota rationalize two coupes on the same chassis, with the same engines, and just a few thousand dollars seperating them in price? This will be a long shot and pure speculation, but say that at the refresh Lexus decides to drop the IS 250 in favor of the GS300's 3.0L V6, so we have a ~235HP IS 300 and a 306HP IS350. Say that the coupe is priced a few thousand above the sedan and you have a ~$34,000 IS 300 coupe or say a ~$40,000 IS 350 coupe. Wouldn't that be about the expected pricing for a Supra/Supra TT? They could tune them a little differently but the IS is a pretty hard-edged car already, so how much differentiation could there be between them. Sheetmetal and interiors? Nissan and infiniti have taken that gamble, and won, but who knows if that's a risk that Toyota is willing to take? And even then, how will they rationalize powertrains? A 270HP N/A Supra costing the same as a ~235HP IS 300c? Say they turbo the engine on the Supra for an upper-end model, and you get ~340HP. How do you sell that against a 306HP IS350c? These four hypothetical cars would have a lot of overlapping in power, price, and performance which could make them hard to sell.
One option, as I have noted before, would be to drop the Solara. Toyota could make a Supra that was as refined as the current Solara, but with more power, RWD, and a sportier demeanor which in effect, could widen the target audience. Solara refinement and quality with RWD and the new 3.5L V6? Where do I sign
? Dropping the Solara would leave room for a midsize coupe to sell some 40,000 units a year (or whatever numbers the Solara sells in) and could possibly rationalize a Supra, but only if they dropped the other.
Another thing would be to create an IS above the IS350, so that the Lexus still reigned supreme over it's Toyota counter part. A rumored IS 460 or IS500 in coupe form would still be slated above a Turbo Supra in price and performance, and would make the business case a bit more justifyable.
Basically this entire post is hypothetical and purely speculation, but I guess what I'm trying to point out is that Lexus and Toyota will have to plan out their sports car lineup pretty strategically to have it all make sense, and I'm sure that they will. There could be a lot of in-house crowding from the $30-55K price bracket with ISs coupes and Supras. Consider power options and it just becomes more confusing. Don't get me wrong here, I would love to see a Supra, but it will be interesting to see how Toyota and Lexus organize their Sports car/coupe lineups in the end, so as to justify them all.
Another thing to consider with the Supra argument is that an IS coupe is expected right around the corner. How could Toyota rationalize two coupes on the same chassis, with the same engines, and just a few thousand dollars seperating them in price? This will be a long shot and pure speculation, but say that at the refresh Lexus decides to drop the IS 250 in favor of the GS300's 3.0L V6, so we have a ~235HP IS 300 and a 306HP IS350. Say that the coupe is priced a few thousand above the sedan and you have a ~$34,000 IS 300 coupe or say a ~$40,000 IS 350 coupe. Wouldn't that be about the expected pricing for a Supra/Supra TT? They could tune them a little differently but the IS is a pretty hard-edged car already, so how much differentiation could there be between them. Sheetmetal and interiors? Nissan and infiniti have taken that gamble, and won, but who knows if that's a risk that Toyota is willing to take? And even then, how will they rationalize powertrains? A 270HP N/A Supra costing the same as a ~235HP IS 300c? Say they turbo the engine on the Supra for an upper-end model, and you get ~340HP. How do you sell that against a 306HP IS350c? These four hypothetical cars would have a lot of overlapping in power, price, and performance which could make them hard to sell.
One option, as I have noted before, would be to drop the Solara. Toyota could make a Supra that was as refined as the current Solara, but with more power, RWD, and a sportier demeanor which in effect, could widen the target audience. Solara refinement and quality with RWD and the new 3.5L V6? Where do I sign
? Dropping the Solara would leave room for a midsize coupe to sell some 40,000 units a year (or whatever numbers the Solara sells in) and could possibly rationalize a Supra, but only if they dropped the other.Another thing would be to create an IS above the IS350, so that the Lexus still reigned supreme over it's Toyota counter part. A rumored IS 460 or IS500 in coupe form would still be slated above a Turbo Supra in price and performance, and would make the business case a bit more justifyable.
Basically this entire post is hypothetical and purely speculation, but I guess what I'm trying to point out is that Lexus and Toyota will have to plan out their sports car lineup pretty strategically to have it all make sense, and I'm sure that they will. There could be a lot of in-house crowding from the $30-55K price bracket with ISs coupes and Supras. Consider power options and it just becomes more confusing. Don't get me wrong here, I would love to see a Supra, but it will be interesting to see how Toyota and Lexus organize their Sports car/coupe lineups in the end, so as to justify them all.
03-12-06, 12:21 PM
#35
Originally Posted by MPLexus301
Expecting a V8 Supra to play in a $60K-$80K realm, you're forgetting one thing...the SC.
One option, as I have noted before, would be to drop the Solara. Toyota could make a Supra that was as refined as the current Solara, but with more power, RWD, and a sportier demeanor which in effect, could widen the target audience. Solara refinement and quality with RWD and the new 3.5L V6? Where do I sign ?
Another thing would be to create an IS above the IS350, so that the Lexus still reigned supreme over it's Toyota counter part. A rumored IS 460 or IS500 in coupe form would still be slated above a Turbo Supra in price and performance, and would make the business case a bit more justifyable.
One option, as I have noted before, would be to drop the Solara. Toyota could make a Supra that was as refined as the current Solara, but with more power, RWD, and a sportier demeanor which in effect, could widen the target audience. Solara refinement and quality with RWD and the new 3.5L V6? Where do I sign
? Another thing would be to create an IS above the IS350, so that the Lexus still reigned supreme over it's Toyota counter part. A rumored IS 460 or IS500 in coupe form would still be slated above a Turbo Supra in price and performance, and would make the business case a bit more justifyable.
The SC will be discontinued because of the Supra and IS convertible.
The Solara will stay/co-exist, but the Supra will be sportier. Think of the IS and ES...
The IS460/500 and Supra are possible, giving Toyota and Lexus true sports coupes that they desperately need.
The only thing missing from the Toyota's family lineups are sporty coupes. Perhaps 2007 will suprise us...
03-12-06, 01:19 PM
#36
Lexus won't drop the SC. It's been a solid selling, well built, stylish, and important car in their lineup for years. It wouldn't make sense to drop the SC in favor of some high powered IS coupe that SC buyers have never seen or heard of.
The SC isn't going anywhere, the IS range will simply have to work around it.
The SC isn't going anywhere, the IS range will simply have to work around it.
03-13-06, 10:47 PM
#37
Just saw this article today...
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=109529#3
Report: Toyota Set to Launch Lexus $170,000 Supercar in 2008
Date posted: 03-06-2006
TOKYO — Toyota has secretly approved plans to put its sensational 200-mph Lexus LF-A supercar in the market, according to a report in Tokyo.
Japan's media are reporting that Toyota will launch a luxury sports car for the Lexus brand embracing F1 technology in fall 2008. The reports also say Toyota is pitching hard to bring the Japanese F1 Grand Prix to its newly refurbished Fuji Speedway track, which will help the company drive home the car's F1 connection.
The supersleek LF-A, as shown so far, has a 5.0-liter, front-mounted V10. However, with F1 engine regulations switching to V8, it raises the question whether Toyota will make that change on the LF-A as well. The fact that Honda is preparing a new V10 NSX for 2009 suggests Toyota will stick with the V10 so it won't lose out in the image war, and at the same time to hold firm to the LF-A's premium status.
The LF-A sticker is expected to be just under $170,000, a bargain by supercar standards.
Honda's contract to hold the F1 Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka expires this year. This has not escaped the attention of Toyota, which will be lobbying hard to stage the race at its own Fuji Speedway, near Tokyo. Honda, however, seems determined to fight to keep its F1 date. That raises the possibility of two F1 races in Japan, which sounds exciting!
What this means to you: Toyota, with cash to burn, puts the pedal to the metal with F1, both on the circuit and the road.
Report: Toyota Set to Launch Lexus $170,000 Supercar in 2008
Date posted: 03-06-2006
TOKYO — Toyota has secretly approved plans to put its sensational 200-mph Lexus LF-A supercar in the market, according to a report in Tokyo.
Japan's media are reporting that Toyota will launch a luxury sports car for the Lexus brand embracing F1 technology in fall 2008. The reports also say Toyota is pitching hard to bring the Japanese F1 Grand Prix to its newly refurbished Fuji Speedway track, which will help the company drive home the car's F1 connection.
The supersleek LF-A, as shown so far, has a 5.0-liter, front-mounted V10. However, with F1 engine regulations switching to V8, it raises the question whether Toyota will make that change on the LF-A as well. The fact that Honda is preparing a new V10 NSX for 2009 suggests Toyota will stick with the V10 so it won't lose out in the image war, and at the same time to hold firm to the LF-A's premium status.
The LF-A sticker is expected to be just under $170,000, a bargain by supercar standards.
Honda's contract to hold the F1 Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka expires this year. This has not escaped the attention of Toyota, which will be lobbying hard to stage the race at its own Fuji Speedway, near Tokyo. Honda, however, seems determined to fight to keep its F1 date. That raises the possibility of two F1 races in Japan, which sounds exciting!
What this means to you: Toyota, with cash to burn, puts the pedal to the metal with F1, both on the circuit and the road.
03-14-06, 07:01 AM
#39
Super Moderator
At nearly $170K, they must be planning it as a very limited production car. I kinda wish they would price it a little lower & produce/sell more of them . . .
Big 
Makes it feel like im owning a piece of automotive history
03-24-06, 08:53 AM
#42
Speaks French in Russian
Lexus Will Make Lf-a Supercar
LEXUS WILL MAKE LF-A SUPERCAR
Reborn as 5.0-litre 500bhp GT500
Thursday 23rd March
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...ryId=13441.htm
Reborn as 5.0-litre 500bhp GT500
Thursday 23rd March
It looks as if Toyota Racing will produce the Lexus LF-A supercar concept, first previewed here on PistonHeads – see related story link below. It's due by 2008, according to Autocar, and will make its production debut at the Tokyo Motor Show in October 2007.
The two-seater supercar is powered by what Lexus at the time called "a high-output V10 engine" and was first previewed at the Tokyo Motor Show last year. Since then, the reaction to it has been so positive that the Japanese car maker was persuaded to put it into production.
To be called the GT500, and likely to house the 500bhp 5.0-litre V10 that was in the concept, it will, at last, provide a suitable vessel into which Toyota can pour its hard- and expensively-won F1 expertise. There may also be a V8 version – the GT450 costing some £75,000 while the GT500 is likely to lighten your wallet by a whisker under £100,000.
Autocar reckons that Honda's announcement of the new NSX last year was the prod it needed to turn this concept into reality.
The two-seater supercar is powered by what Lexus at the time called "a high-output V10 engine" and was first previewed at the Tokyo Motor Show last year. Since then, the reaction to it has been so positive that the Japanese car maker was persuaded to put it into production.
To be called the GT500, and likely to house the 500bhp 5.0-litre V10 that was in the concept, it will, at last, provide a suitable vessel into which Toyota can pour its hard- and expensively-won F1 expertise. There may also be a V8 version – the GT450 costing some £75,000 while the GT500 is likely to lighten your wallet by a whisker under £100,000.
Autocar reckons that Honda's announcement of the new NSX last year was the prod it needed to turn this concept into reality.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...ryId=13441.htm
03-24-06, 10:11 AM
#43
Super Moderator
£100,000 is a lot, too much in fact even for the V10 version, I hope it's just projected UK price 
$100,000 would be a lot more acceptable, otherwise, I think they are just producing it as a limited production showcase.
Yes, I still think they have to redesign that nose
$100,000 would be a lot more acceptable, otherwise, I think they are just producing it as a limited production showcase.
Yes, I still think they have to redesign that nose
03-24-06, 11:20 AM
#44
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by LexArazzo
£100,000 is a lot, too much in fact even for the V10 version, I hope it's just projected UK price
$100,000 would be a lot more acceptable, otherwise, I think they are just producing it as a limited production showcase.
Yes, I still think they have to redesign that nose
$100,000 would be a lot more acceptable, otherwise, I think they are just producing it as a limited production showcase.
Yes, I still think they have to redesign that nose
03-25-06, 11:35 AM
#45
Pole Position
GM will never let Toyota beat htem in performance. The Corvette SS and "Blue Devil" is due out at the same time. Expect 680-700 HP 100K+ price tag.
This is going to be interesting
This is going to be interesting