TRDFantasy

Lexus though did try this with the IS220d and that car has been a sales disappointment in Europe from what I heard. Lexus hybrids apparently sell well in each market segment that they compete in. Focusing on hybrids also helps to differentiate Lexus from the European competition, as Lexus can then establish themselves as hybrid leaders. The Germans are known as being diesel leaders and I don't think that will ever change. The diesel engine itself was invented by a German.

Mister Two

I think the failure of the IS220d has more to do with not offering it with an auto. The diesel market in Europe is simply too big for Lexus to keep not taking it seriously like that. And just because the Germans invented the diesel engine it doesn't mean Lexus can't become competitive in the same area. The Germans invented the car itself too for that matter.

LexFather

Yeah TRD, the facts are the Germans can go downmarket and have for decades now and its part of the status quo for them. Hardly anyone raises an eyebrow about it. The Germans have also learned to only sell their premium cars here as Americans for the most part or not big on 4 cylinder luxury vehicles. The Germans also have quite a few top heavy cars (V-12s, AMG etc) so they can risk to go downmarket.

While Lexus is by far the supreme of the Japanese brands its still tough for them image wise as many people still think Lexus=dumb Toyota. By them going down to what some people will think is a Corolla rebadge is risky. Hell some idiots think the IS is a Corolla rebadge.

On the other hand if they don't go downmarket they risk having a higher overall MPG average as a brand and they lose out on the very important youth market and they risk the improvements they made in Europe. If this thing can get the 50 MPG rating, that is something no luxury brand here can claim. Its a huge selling point, even with gas being stable. Clearly Toyota is betting that gas prices will increase in the future.

Cars like the CTh help cars like the LFA get made. It balances things out. Again I would like to see a small CTh coupe more than anything. Or add AWD, a bigger engine and make a CT-F.

Why not? The F line needs expansion. Hell Audi makes a FWD high hp S3.

Weird right. They offer a diesel after near 20 years but its a manual and well sales are slow. It had the most torque in class but wasn't the cleanest or smoothest. Lexus needed to come out with the BEST diesel,not one that places midpack.

I don't think they had any intentions of doing diesels serious there. I think Lexus doing diesels won't make them stand out. Its clear most people in Europe are badge*****s and stick with the status quo. Infiniti just added a diesel but its an old Renault engine and not class leading in anything. They haven't learned anything from Lexus.

Lexus doing hybrids at least gives them an advantage of being the only or one of the few to do it. I don't think Lexus will ever be a huge volume brand in Europe, they are aiming for 100k in a few years and that is still nothing to the 700k or so the big Germans sell there.

Finally what is confusing is Lexus position in Europe. They are going all hybrid yet offer the IS F there (no IS 350)? What will the future in Europe be? All hybrids and "F" models?

Mr Bond

Its very clear to me as an European that Lexus does not care about the european market at all. My freinds ( Audi and BMW drivers mostly) and I ( Lexus IS 250) have asked for the IS 350 for years now, but they the bring us the IS-F that's 3 times more expensive than the IS 250. No thanks. Not with our gasprices. We have asked for a diesel V6/V8 with about 220-300 hp in GS or RX, they bring us the IS 220d with a manual truck-transmission. No thanks. Many people I know really wants to buy a Lexus, but everything fails when it comes to engines and transmissions. If Lexus wants this CT to be a hit they better bring us models like Golf R, BMW 130i and diesels between 140-220 hp. The CT 200 alone won't help Lexus much.

LexFather

Great post and I agree. They have been there 20 years now and its pretty obvious what they need to offer. My only guess again is they really have no intent of making serious headway in Europe. Hell Infiniti said they would be happy with 8,000 sales there a year. That is literally nothing.

encore888

Lexus does have a goal of doubling sales with the CT 200h, which may be possible. Agreed though that more investment and options would help.

LexFather

So the lineup would be potentially?
CT 200h
IS? IS F
GSh
RXh
LSh
LFA

The diesel helped double sales initially. Lexus will need more in Europe. For goodness sakes the 3 series has like 42 variants by itself.

playa3uhh

I just got an invitation from my local Lecus dealer because they are revealing the Lexus CT250. It looks like it isn't even a hatchback from the silhouette on invitation. It's on Feb. 8th...I'll try to take some pics! Has anyone heard anything recently?

JMD

jnate49

2.5 turbo ftw

BunthaKev

If you want a good deisel then buy a hilux and put a Lexus badge on it! Holy crap this whole thread is about Lexus in Europe and Deisels. Yes! the 200h shuld have a non- hybrid counterpart. Maybe with a turbo. I Feel really bad for Europeans who don't get the is350. waaaaaahhhhh. We couldn't get skylines for a very long time. The Supra was discotinued before the intro of the yamaha beams engine. We didn't have lancer evo's or sti's until 2000 and somthing. We don't have FTO's. Our GTO is an even bigger, fatter beast than the one you guys are used to. No civic type R Ever! Rx7 cut off in 1996... Am I missing anything?(I know I'm missing so much more) Oh yeah. what about MR2 turbo done in 96. no cabrio for that car either. no gt4 after 93 alllll our corollas had crappy 4afe's after the 80's. Wahhhhhhh!!! cry some more!!! The lex 200h should be a rear wheel drive sti. they all ready have a deal with subaru.

cenix

i'd really like to see a ct350 over a 250. considering the layout of the current chassis, a rear wheel drive configuration may not be ideal, but i'd be happy with a solid limited slip differential working hard to keep the power to the front drive wheels. considering that lexus also trademarked ct300 and ct400 is interesting, too.

playa3uhh, please take some pics of the ct250!!!

Individual

iTrader: (7)

LOL, I almost spat out my water just imagining a small CT with a big ol' 460 hybrid engine.

somatic

iTrader: (2)

In that case, wouldn't it make more sense just to make an IS hatchback?

LukeNag

wow.......

toptech

have any of you actually driven a CT200h? the engine sounds like someone sighing continuosly. honestly, i dont know what they were thinking. every time one rolls into the dealership the same thing is said. "Why would they make a turd out of such a gorgeous car?" if they are trying to take on the Germans, this would have been the perfect chassis do it, and i am really hoping that they planned for other powerplants in the future.