Official LF-A(II) thread (Will debut at Tokyo Auto Show, Lexus details Oct 20th, 8pm)
05-25-08, 10:31 AM
#1486
Lexus Test Driver
If you win the powerball and decide you want to go buy a new Ferrari for MSRP, you can't. To get one within 30days time, you are going to pay an astounding markup. I have to check what it is currently, but for a couple years, F430 spiders were demanding $100,000+ markups. To get a new 599, be prepared to pay a half million currently.
It'd be one thing if I were paying $30-120k over MSRP for a used car and Ferrari was getting the money, not a local dealership that I'm going to pay potentially six figures for maintenance over the years, and some swarmy salesman with two Rolexes on each wrist.
The other issue is that since I can't get a Ferrari from the factory, I can't get one with the options I want. I keep regular tabs on inventory at four Ferrari dealerships across the U.S. and still have not come across a 430 in either of the two trims I want.
it's just like saying the nissan gtr blows away tons of high performance cars, but even say they are available at 100k, people with money will still pay 300k for a ferrari instead. price is really not an issue to some of these people, they want the status and glory (imho). they can care less about a 80k gtr beating their cars
After all, if any of us really cared about performance or value, we'd be riding motorcycles. That's why all the GT-R and Z06 trolls and fanboys are so silly.
05-25-08, 10:37 AM
#1487
G35x - RWD/AWD goodness
Lexus LF-A at Nurburgring 24
Posted May 23 2008 01:19 PM by marc.noordeloos
Source: http://blogs.automobilemag.com/62475...-24/index.html
Sharing the garage at the Nurburgring 24 with Aston Martin is the Lexus LF-A. A quick glance and a few (poor) mobile phone pics and we've learned a bit.
We arrived at the circuit quite late today and after attending the opening of the new Aston Martin Nurburgring development center, we were able to walk the pit garages. To my surprise, Lexus is sharing the garage with Aston for the LF-A.
The images aren't great but I can tell you this
-The engine sounds good though quite quiet and almost as if there are loud speakers around the circuit playing the sound of the V-10. Quite weird.
-The radiators look to be mounted in the rear corners of the back bumper
-The rear suspension is gorgeous with multiple links and a very short spring behind the half-shaft and the damper, seperate, in front of the half-shaft.
-The transmission is in the rear and looks straight out of a LeMans car.
-The car is painted in flat black and looks quite good
-There are a ton of Japanese techs working on the car and tweaking it all the time.
-The car is very, very cool
-The engine sounds good though quite quiet and almost as if there are loud speakers around the circuit playing the sound of the V-10. Quite weird.
-The radiators look to be mounted in the rear corners of the back bumper
-The rear suspension is gorgeous with multiple links and a very short spring behind the half-shaft and the damper, seperate, in front of the half-shaft.
-The transmission is in the rear and looks straight out of a LeMans car.
-The car is painted in flat black and looks quite good
-There are a ton of Japanese techs working on the car and tweaking it all the time.
-The car is very, very cool
I'll work on getting more info on the car...
Off to bed now as it's near midnight in Germany
-Marc
Off to bed now as it's near midnight in Germany
-Marc
Source: http://blogs.automobilemag.com/62475...-24/index.html
05-25-08, 10:42 AM
#1488
G35x - RWD/AWD goodness
Lexus LF-A has early problems (at Nurburgring 24)
Posted May 23 2008 01:19 PM by marc.noordeloos
Source: http://blogs.automobilemag.com/62498...ems/index.html
The Lexus LF-A running in the Nurburgring 24 is in the pits, one hour into the race. It looks like transmission issues are the culprit.
As the LF-A pulled into the pits, there were a few drips of clean, clear oil. An engineer was quick to investigate and my trained eyes and fingers told me it was transmission oil.
The team quickly pulled the car into the garage and they went to work on what looks like the transaxle.
The team quickly pulled the car into the garage and they went to work on what looks like the transaxle.
I'm sure this race is a development drive for Lexus and we hope the unique car gets back out on the track soon.
At least the team has a nice big screen TV to watch if they end up retiring...
05-25-08, 11:09 AM
#1489
Lexus Test Driver
From the english words I made out, I did hear the words "Carbon body" followed by "Enzo", "Carrera GT", "McLaren SLR."
The curb weight of an F430 is 3197lbs. This is aluminum space frame with aluminum panels. Even Lexus is not going to be a monocoque set up, using Carbon Fiber body panels could easily shed 2-300 lbs off of this size of a car.
05-25-08, 01:34 PM
#1490
Someone go wake up Coco-bun please!!!
From the english words I made out, I did hear the words "Carbon body" followed by "Enzo", "Carrera GT", "McLaren SLR."
The curb weight of an F430 is 3197lbs. This is aluminum space frame with aluminum panels. Even Lexus is not going to be a monocoque set up, using Carbon Fiber body panels could easily shed 2-300 lbs off of this size of a car.
From the english words I made out, I did hear the words "Carbon body" followed by "Enzo", "Carrera GT", "McLaren SLR."
The curb weight of an F430 is 3197lbs. This is aluminum space frame with aluminum panels. Even Lexus is not going to be a monocoque set up, using Carbon Fiber body panels could easily shed 2-300 lbs off of this size of a car.
05-25-08, 09:37 PM
#1491
Lexus Test Driver
Coincidentally, Carlos Sainz used to drive for Toyota Motorsports/Toyota Team Europe in WRC (and won at least one or two championchips for them I beleive). TTE, which being based in Germany, is who I suspect is heavily involved in testing and tuning the LF-A on the Ring the past few years.
Also, another piece of trivia I just found on Wikipedia, was that Toyota Team Europe (formerly called Andersson Motorsports) was a independent racing team that was bought by Toyota in 1993 and absorbed as its tuning/motorsport arm. This is analogous to how AMG was bought by Mercedes Benz after having much success racing MB's.
05-26-08, 08:49 PM
#1493
Lexus Test Driver
LOL, I cannot wait for this car to come out. The hater-ade is running quite strong on certain Italian car forums since the pricing target was announced recently.
Whats funny is that 5 minutes before I had just read the hating on the LF-A, I was reading a thread on how broken doorhandles are a common problem on their cars, proceeded by talks of methods to open the doors more gently as not to break them!
Whats funny is that 5 minutes before I had just read the hating on the LF-A, I was reading a thread on how broken doorhandles are a common problem on their cars, proceeded by talks of methods to open the doors more gently as not to break them!
05-26-08, 09:29 PM
#1494
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I will repeat this once more: the pricing target has NOT been announced YET, not officially. The 'over 200K' target we have heard so far is nothing more than a rumour. It's pretty silly seeing so many other sites and forums reporting the '225K' figure as fact.
Until we see it and hear it directly from Lexus, it's not confirmed. Lexus has not yet even made an *official* production announcement for the vehicle, and people believe that a Lexus exec spilled the beans on the LF-A's price!?
Until we see it and hear it directly from Lexus, it's not confirmed. Lexus has not yet even made an *official* production announcement for the vehicle, and people believe that a Lexus exec spilled the beans on the LF-A's price!?
05-27-08, 01:22 PM
#1495
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05-27-08, 01:32 PM
#1496
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An LF-A engine shot from the Automobile magazine website:
http://blogs.automobilemag.com/62498...hot/index.html
http://blogs.automobilemag.com/62498...hot/index.html
05-27-08, 02:31 PM
#1497
Lexus Test Driver
Yea, I just saw the article on autoblog.com about the LF-A crash during night-time qualifying. I was not aware that this happened. I wonder if this had anything to do with the fluid leak that developed early on in the race?
05-27-08, 02:43 PM
#1498
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Saw this and made me wonder the same thing......
05-27-08, 04:08 PM
#1499
Lexus Test Driver
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/27/s...ails-revealed/
Toyota's campaign of the Lexus LF-A racing prototype at the 24 Hours of Nurburgring wasn't lacking for drama, with a serious crash that took place during the night-time qualifying session followed by some technical issues on race day. Details haven't been released as to what caused the crash, but the damage to the driver's side rear quarter panel was enough to cause the vehicle to limp back to the pits, where KGP spies snapped off 15 shots of the LF-A before it headed back to Toyota's 'Ring workshop.
The V10 nestled deep into the engine bay proves that Lexus is going for a front-midship layout for its first supercar, and judging by the extensive use of carbon fiber in the cracked body panels and underbody diffuser, keeping the LF-A as light as possible is a top priority. Despite the race-ready interior, KGP's shots show an office very similar to that found in the LF-A concepts we've seen at shows, with a massive central tunnel to house both the transmission and a substantial amount of the engine.
The following day, the LF-A got out to the starting grid, but after an hour of racing, smoke began pouring from the rear of the racer, diagnosed later as an oil leak. The pit crew worked feverishly over the ensuing two hours to get the LF-A back out onto the track to finish a total of 106 laps, with a fastest lap of 9:19.757 on lap 85, and placing 120th overall.
The V10 nestled deep into the engine bay proves that Lexus is going for a front-midship layout for its first supercar, and judging by the extensive use of carbon fiber in the cracked body panels and underbody diffuser, keeping the LF-A as light as possible is a top priority. Despite the race-ready interior, KGP's shots show an office very similar to that found in the LF-A concepts we've seen at shows, with a massive central tunnel to house both the transmission and a substantial amount of the engine.
The following day, the LF-A got out to the starting grid, but after an hour of racing, smoke began pouring from the rear of the racer, diagnosed later as an oil leak. The pit crew worked feverishly over the ensuing two hours to get the LF-A back out onto the track to finish a total of 106 laps, with a fastest lap of 9:19.757 on lap 85, and placing 120th overall.
05-27-08, 05:35 PM
#1500
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The Lexus LF-A is a Mistake
By Robert Farago
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...-is-a-mistake/
The fastest way to kill an automotive brand: sell a POS. The bloodletting caused by a brand new clunker can be spectacular. Anyone remember the 1981 Cadillac Fleetwood V-8-6-4? How about the Cimarron? It has taken Caddy more than 20 years to climb back from that double debacle if, indeed, they have. But there’s another, slower and more insidious way to ruin a storied car brand: distraction. When a carmaker builds a vehicle that muddies the marque’s core message, it mortgages its future. To wit, the Lexus LF-A.
Of course, the Porsche Cayenne used to personify the problem– before the sports car maker released its SUV. Once the Cayenne smashed sales records, purists’ caviling quieted. How can you argue with success? Never mind the long-term effects on branding. Never mind that Porsche’s using the money to buy VW. The market has spoken. Which reminds me of the old punch line, “We’re just arguing over price.”
Talk to me in ten years, when the bloom is off the rose. Meanwhile, building a car that’s a genre too far is one thing. Offering a product that completely betrays your brand values is another. I don’t need to resurrect my arguments against the so-not-a-luxury-car Lexus IS-F. Actually, I do. The new LF-A supercar takes the exact same mistake made by the IS-F to the next level, combing brand betrayal with yet another cardinal sin for automotive brand managers: the halo car.
Like anything else, there are halo cars and there are halo cars. There’s the deeply misguided (I don’t have the money to buy a Nissan GT-R so I guess I’ll buy a Maxima instead) and the just plain dumb (who the Hell can afford THAT?). The best way to separate the wheat from the carbon fiber titanium-covered chaff (needed at those speeds): the price difference between the halo car and the next model down. Discounting aesthetic, genre and brand focus differences, the larger the price gap, the more ill-fated the endeavor.
The Lexus LF-A will sticker for a cool $225k. The next model down, the LS600h hybrid sedan, costs $104,900. The $120,100 price gap elevates the LF-A from desirable range topper to WTFer– and dooms it to failure.
Just ask Daimler, whose slated-for-execution Mercedes McLaren SLR AMG supercar was a major flop at $495k (not including discount). Or Porsche, whose $440k Carrera GT ceased production 230 cars shy of its stated sales target. And these are brands with heritage, whose prestige and racing history makes their stratospherically-priced products inherently collectible.
The counter-argument is entirely emotional. Supposedly, all halo cars cast an unquantifiable glow over the brand’s more prosaic products. The LF-A will drop-kick Lexus’ stodgy image, making all Lexi more appealing. If I was a Lexus stockholder, I’d be uncomfortable with any multi-million dollar investment based on psycho-babble. If I was a brand manager, I’d want statistical proof that Lexus’ image is somehow lacking amongst owners or intenders, and that a supercar would rectify this theoretical problem.
Toyota is a wealthy company. They can afford to make mistakes like the LF-A without losing any metaphorical sleep. But it is a particular KIND of blunder, one that reveals a dangerous new turn in ToMoCo’s corporate attitude.
Speaking of baseless psychological speculation, I believe that building and selling a supercar is a bold statement of corporate health and vitality. Can you imagine Ford releasing its $140k GT now? A halo/supercar says to the world, look at us! THIS is what we can do! (Or never mind the Focus, THIS is what we can do!) But there’s a fine line between being bold and hubris, and hubris and stupidity.
This is why Toyota has cultivated a corporate culture based on paranoia. Fear keeps you focused. You never, ever forget the downsides of any of your potential actions. You always look for the safest option– especially when you’re doing something dangerous. Traditionally, the Toyota Way follows Sun Tzu’s dictate: never to fight a battle unless you know you’re going to win. It’s not for nothing the first Lexus looked like a Mercedes E-Class.
The new Tundra’s sales targets represented a huge miscalculation by the Japanese automaker’s product planners that will cost Toyota billions. And now, the LF-A boldly goes where Toyota has never gone before, both in terms of money and image. Why? For what are they trying to compensate? Lexus would have been far better off transforming their dopey SC into a credible Mercedes SL challenger. Or continuing to refine what they already have. Or just sending their loyal customers a nice “thank you” service voucher.
I know TTAC’s Best and Brightest welcome automotive excellence in all its forms. But sometimes excellence is boring, and comes from slow, steady progress. It’s a lesson Toyota taught the world. The LF-A is another step towards unlearning it.
By Robert Farago
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the...-is-a-mistake/
The fastest way to kill an automotive brand: sell a POS. The bloodletting caused by a brand new clunker can be spectacular. Anyone remember the 1981 Cadillac Fleetwood V-8-6-4? How about the Cimarron? It has taken Caddy more than 20 years to climb back from that double debacle if, indeed, they have. But there’s another, slower and more insidious way to ruin a storied car brand: distraction. When a carmaker builds a vehicle that muddies the marque’s core message, it mortgages its future. To wit, the Lexus LF-A.
Of course, the Porsche Cayenne used to personify the problem– before the sports car maker released its SUV. Once the Cayenne smashed sales records, purists’ caviling quieted. How can you argue with success? Never mind the long-term effects on branding. Never mind that Porsche’s using the money to buy VW. The market has spoken. Which reminds me of the old punch line, “We’re just arguing over price.”
Talk to me in ten years, when the bloom is off the rose. Meanwhile, building a car that’s a genre too far is one thing. Offering a product that completely betrays your brand values is another. I don’t need to resurrect my arguments against the so-not-a-luxury-car Lexus IS-F. Actually, I do. The new LF-A supercar takes the exact same mistake made by the IS-F to the next level, combing brand betrayal with yet another cardinal sin for automotive brand managers: the halo car.
Like anything else, there are halo cars and there are halo cars. There’s the deeply misguided (I don’t have the money to buy a Nissan GT-R so I guess I’ll buy a Maxima instead) and the just plain dumb (who the Hell can afford THAT?). The best way to separate the wheat from the carbon fiber titanium-covered chaff (needed at those speeds): the price difference between the halo car and the next model down. Discounting aesthetic, genre and brand focus differences, the larger the price gap, the more ill-fated the endeavor.
The Lexus LF-A will sticker for a cool $225k. The next model down, the LS600h hybrid sedan, costs $104,900. The $120,100 price gap elevates the LF-A from desirable range topper to WTFer– and dooms it to failure.
Just ask Daimler, whose slated-for-execution Mercedes McLaren SLR AMG supercar was a major flop at $495k (not including discount). Or Porsche, whose $440k Carrera GT ceased production 230 cars shy of its stated sales target. And these are brands with heritage, whose prestige and racing history makes their stratospherically-priced products inherently collectible.
The counter-argument is entirely emotional. Supposedly, all halo cars cast an unquantifiable glow over the brand’s more prosaic products. The LF-A will drop-kick Lexus’ stodgy image, making all Lexi more appealing. If I was a Lexus stockholder, I’d be uncomfortable with any multi-million dollar investment based on psycho-babble. If I was a brand manager, I’d want statistical proof that Lexus’ image is somehow lacking amongst owners or intenders, and that a supercar would rectify this theoretical problem.
Toyota is a wealthy company. They can afford to make mistakes like the LF-A without losing any metaphorical sleep. But it is a particular KIND of blunder, one that reveals a dangerous new turn in ToMoCo’s corporate attitude.
Speaking of baseless psychological speculation, I believe that building and selling a supercar is a bold statement of corporate health and vitality. Can you imagine Ford releasing its $140k GT now? A halo/supercar says to the world, look at us! THIS is what we can do! (Or never mind the Focus, THIS is what we can do!) But there’s a fine line between being bold and hubris, and hubris and stupidity.
This is why Toyota has cultivated a corporate culture based on paranoia. Fear keeps you focused. You never, ever forget the downsides of any of your potential actions. You always look for the safest option– especially when you’re doing something dangerous. Traditionally, the Toyota Way follows Sun Tzu’s dictate: never to fight a battle unless you know you’re going to win. It’s not for nothing the first Lexus looked like a Mercedes E-Class.
The new Tundra’s sales targets represented a huge miscalculation by the Japanese automaker’s product planners that will cost Toyota billions. And now, the LF-A boldly goes where Toyota has never gone before, both in terms of money and image. Why? For what are they trying to compensate? Lexus would have been far better off transforming their dopey SC into a credible Mercedes SL challenger. Or continuing to refine what they already have. Or just sending their loyal customers a nice “thank you” service voucher.
I know TTAC’s Best and Brightest welcome automotive excellence in all its forms. But sometimes excellence is boring, and comes from slow, steady progress. It’s a lesson Toyota taught the world. The LF-A is another step towards unlearning it.