Official LF-A(II) thread (Will debut at Tokyo Auto Show, Lexus details Oct 20th, 8pm)
11-11-08, 06:59 PM
#1651
Lexus Fanatic
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I've always thought this car as designed was a vast waste of time, staff, and money given how crazy different it is than every other Lexus.
For one thing, I want to see Lexus make the LS blow away the German competitors. That to me would be far more exciting than a race car they sell a few of to the very wealthy.
I want to see a new GS we can REALLY be proud of, not the aging-badly weak offering of today.
I want to see a new ES that is so good that despite being FWD people are no longer tempted by Genesis, G37, etc.
I want to see a new SC that gives MB real hearburn and is exciting and doesn't drive like a clumsy slug.
There's so many better ways for Lexus to use its resources than on the LF-A.
For one thing, I want to see Lexus make the LS blow away the German competitors. That to me would be far more exciting than a race car they sell a few of to the very wealthy.
I want to see a new GS we can REALLY be proud of, not the aging-badly weak offering of today.
I want to see a new ES that is so good that despite being FWD people are no longer tempted by Genesis, G37, etc.
I want to see a new SC that gives MB real hearburn and is exciting and doesn't drive like a clumsy slug.
There's so many better ways for Lexus to use its resources than on the LF-A.
11-11-08, 07:06 PM
#1652
Lexus Fanatic
I've always thought this car as designed was a vast waste of time, staff, and money given how crazy different it is than every other Lexus.
For one thing, I want to see Lexus make the LS blow away the German competitors. That to me would be far more exciting than a race car they sell a few of to the very wealthy.
I want to see a new GS we can REALLY be proud of, not the aging-badly weak offering of today.
I want to see a new ES that is so good that despite being FWD people are no longer tempted by Genesis, G37, etc.
I want to see a new SC that gives MB real hearburn and is exciting and doesn't drive like a clumsy slug.
There's so many better ways for Lexus to use its resources than on the LF-A.
For one thing, I want to see Lexus make the LS blow away the German competitors. That to me would be far more exciting than a race car they sell a few of to the very wealthy.
I want to see a new GS we can REALLY be proud of, not the aging-badly weak offering of today.
I want to see a new ES that is so good that despite being FWD people are no longer tempted by Genesis, G37, etc.
I want to see a new SC that gives MB real hearburn and is exciting and doesn't drive like a clumsy slug.
There's so many better ways for Lexus to use its resources than on the LF-A.
11-11-08, 07:11 PM
#1653
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It always was a questionable move for Lexus IMO. Is anyone knowledgeable enough to compare/contrast LF-A development/rumor/intro with the R 8? I don't know when Audi started development of the R 8 but they brought the thing out. And I doubt they would have done it had there been much delay and I certainly doubt Audi would start development of it today.
I can make an argument that Toyota got caught by market conditions but if they thought the automotive landscape was totally figured out by them and never changing, well, then they have adopted GMthink in the finest tradition. I can't disagree with the list of what Lexus should be doing and if I were so inclined to think about sporty coupes I would think Toyota would be better served to look at the Supra and MR2 than trying to play with Ferrari or Lambo. Not a good sign when you forget what it is you do for a living and that seems like it may have happened this time.
I can make an argument that Toyota got caught by market conditions but if they thought the automotive landscape was totally figured out by them and never changing, well, then they have adopted GMthink in the finest tradition. I can't disagree with the list of what Lexus should be doing and if I were so inclined to think about sporty coupes I would think Toyota would be better served to look at the Supra and MR2 than trying to play with Ferrari or Lambo. Not a good sign when you forget what it is you do for a living and that seems like it may have happened this time.
11-11-08, 09:23 PM
#1655
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Well seems the 200k price or higher is just wrong in todays market and even in the "right" market. Lexus just broke the 100k barrier, they want to double that?
However if Nissan has the GT-R and Acura/Honda has the NSX, it just shows that Toyota still is in control and would rather waste money or a futile F1 effort (BILLIONS) instead of making sports cars people want.
Remember, the IS-F was basically a "skunkworks" vehicle.
However if Nissan has the GT-R and Acura/Honda has the NSX, it just shows that Toyota still is in control and would rather waste money or a futile F1 effort (BILLIONS) instead of making sports cars people want.
Remember, the IS-F was basically a "skunkworks" vehicle.
11-12-08, 07:42 AM
#1656
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I think some of you are forgetting that Toyota is ALL ABOUT being efficient and eliminating waste. Going by that, it would be absolutely silly to cancel a project or put it "on hold".
I think the truth is that the car is delayed a bit, but that it IS coming.
11-12-08, 09:28 AM
#1657
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Going by that, it would be absolutely silly to cancel a project or put it "on hold".
I think the truth is that the car is delayed a bit, but that it IS coming.
11-12-08, 06:39 PM
#1658
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I guess we'll see how many more sightings are made at the Ring.
11-12-08, 08:32 PM
#1659
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IMHO, I think whoever you talked to is pulling your chain, so to speak. I refuse to believe the project is "on hold" considering ALL the time AND money Toyota has put into this project.
I think some of you are forgetting that Toyota is ALL ABOUT being efficient and eliminating waste. Going by that, it would be absolutely silly to cancel a project or put it "on hold".
I think the truth is that the car is delayed a bit, but that it IS coming.
I think some of you are forgetting that Toyota is ALL ABOUT being efficient and eliminating waste. Going by that, it would be absolutely silly to cancel a project or put it "on hold".
I think the truth is that the car is delayed a bit, but that it IS coming.
11-12-08, 08:42 PM
#1660
Like others have said, the REAL halo car for Lexus is the LS. It represents the brand's core, traditional attributes best.
Now the IS-F is the first in a performance division, with the LF-A also badged "F" but far in a different category. Perhaps it would make more sense to produce the GS-F first rather than an even more low-volume, expensive supercar. I still want to see the LF-A come out but Lexus has to get it right and at the right time.
Now the IS-F is the first in a performance division, with the LF-A also badged "F" but far in a different category. Perhaps it would make more sense to produce the GS-F first rather than an even more low-volume, expensive supercar. I still want to see the LF-A come out but Lexus has to get it right and at the right time.
11-12-08, 09:02 PM
#1661
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TRD, if Toyota was about eliminating waste, they wouldn't be in F1, which has pretty much WASTED billions with no results. Toyota cannot even get a sporting image from F1.
The LF-A is on hold and it can go either way, produce or not. The global economy is focked now so its not like Lexus can afford to miss sales targets here and make up for it elsewhere.
The LF-A is on hold and it can go either way, produce or not. The global economy is focked now so its not like Lexus can afford to miss sales targets here and make up for it elsewhere.
11-12-08, 09:32 PM
#1662
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bitkahuna, the LF-A is a HALO car, the number of units sold does NOT matter. Also, you have no idea what it's going to do for Lexus' image, or for Toyota's image in general. The most efficient thing *is* to finish development and release the car. It would be far more wasteful to scrap the project, given the years of time and money already invested into it.
We can draw a comparison by looking at what the NSX did for Honda's and Acura's image 20 years ago. The LF-A will do at least that much, if not more for Toyota's and Lexus' image.
The IS-F is already doing a great deal for the image of Lexus, along with the F-Sport accessories.
The LF-A has very little to do with current market conditions, the economy, or in what numbers it will sell. The LF-A was always meant as a halo car, a halo car for the Lexus brand but also a halo vehicle for Toyota itself. The LF-A from the beginning was always meant as a technological showcase to show what Toyota could do, and it was also meant as showing what Toyota had learned in F1.
Toyota hasn't changed it's image with F1 because it currently has no sporty products to sell. That will change in a few years. Also, what better way to link Toyota's F1 program to it's production cars than with a world-class supercar whose development was closely linked with the F1 division of the company?
Maybe the LF-A really IS put on hold, or maybe Toyota is pulling a typically-Toyota move here by throwing everyone misinformation only to later surprise with the production LF-A.
We can draw a comparison by looking at what the NSX did for Honda's and Acura's image 20 years ago. The LF-A will do at least that much, if not more for Toyota's and Lexus' image.
The IS-F is already doing a great deal for the image of Lexus, along with the F-Sport accessories.
The LF-A has very little to do with current market conditions, the economy, or in what numbers it will sell. The LF-A was always meant as a halo car, a halo car for the Lexus brand but also a halo vehicle for Toyota itself. The LF-A from the beginning was always meant as a technological showcase to show what Toyota could do, and it was also meant as showing what Toyota had learned in F1.
Toyota hasn't changed it's image with F1 because it currently has no sporty products to sell. That will change in a few years. Also, what better way to link Toyota's F1 program to it's production cars than with a world-class supercar whose development was closely linked with the F1 division of the company?
Maybe the LF-A really IS put on hold, or maybe Toyota is pulling a typically-Toyota move here by throwing everyone misinformation only to later surprise with the production LF-A.
11-12-08, 11:24 PM
#1663
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HALO shmalo. I owned 2 Acuras, and the fact that they offered the NSX made no difference to me. It was so expensive (compared to what I could afford back then) and so rare that it was irrelevant. Sure it was neat that it existed, (and a great car) but much like a Ferrari it didn't mean a whole lot otherwise.
11-13-08, 06:23 AM
#1664
Lexus Test Driver
Pointedly, Lexus is going to lose millions on this car whether they produce it or not.
11-13-08, 07:00 AM
#1665
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HALO shmalo. I owned 2 Acuras, and the fact that they offered the NSX made no difference to me. It was so expensive (compared to what I could afford back then) and so rare that it was irrelevant. Sure it was neat that it existed, (and a great car) but much like a Ferrari it didn't mean a whole lot otherwise.