Official LF-A(II) thread (Will debut at Tokyo Auto Show, Lexus details Oct 20th, 8pm)
03-03-09, 12:55 PM
#1771
It's a good point that the competition is not sitting still, but I venture to say, had the LF-A entered in 2007, it would still not have as massive an impact; Ferrari, Lambo, etc. all have a long-established base, history, etc. that Lexus would be viewed as an upstart either way, now or then. Yes, the technical specifications may appear more impressive on paper then vs. now, but the handling, performance etc. of rivals would be seen to be as good if not better. IMO the continuing refinement of the suspension, chassis etc. is par for the course in a five+ year time frame, unless there are dramatic, revolutionary advances in vehicle engineering. And on top of that, Lexus will have a hard time breaking into this market either way.
As for the looks, having seen both vehicles at auto shows, yes it has the same basic design. However, the LF-A II is far more refined and production-ready as far as looks are concerned, to my amateur opinion, the LF-A I was not. IMHO the looks of the LF-A II are not yet dated, and have a significant shelf-life. However I can see how others might take a different opinion in this 'gotta have the next thing' world, where products are obsolete as soon as they are on the shelves. From where I stand, Lexus tries for a more gradual evolution in its styling, without the Bangle-esque dramatic changes. Although I cringe at calling the LF-A 'understated', IMO its styling is quite beautiful and has a timeless quality, in some ways moreso than the original SC did.
Furthermore, the Lexus product cycle is not necessarily 5 years; the plan has been to stretch the model cycles longer since the 2000s; and the 1SC, 2GS, had 9 and 8 year cycles, respectively. For a supercar to gestate longer is not surprising from my perspective on Lexus; the original LS 400 had no set time frame on its development, and conservative-minded Toyota took the longest to develop its luxury brand.
As for how the LF-A formula has gone, I've heard so many different things. First it was a V8, then it was a hybrid powertrain, then it was something else. AFAIK there were many different plans considered and tested. There was the report that it was supposed to debut after Toyota's first F1 victory. Additionally, some would say the debut of the GT-R stole some of the LF-A's thunder. Overall, considering Toyota's conservative approach to product development, I'm not surprised one bit that the LF-A development has become so elongated. And yes, it is frustrating for enthusiasts. What will the impact be when the vehicle finally comes out? We may yet see...
As for the looks, having seen both vehicles at auto shows, yes it has the same basic design. However, the LF-A II is far more refined and production-ready as far as looks are concerned, to my amateur opinion, the LF-A I was not. IMHO the looks of the LF-A II are not yet dated, and have a significant shelf-life. However I can see how others might take a different opinion in this 'gotta have the next thing' world, where products are obsolete as soon as they are on the shelves. From where I stand, Lexus tries for a more gradual evolution in its styling, without the Bangle-esque dramatic changes. Although I cringe at calling the LF-A 'understated', IMO its styling is quite beautiful and has a timeless quality, in some ways moreso than the original SC did.
Furthermore, the Lexus product cycle is not necessarily 5 years; the plan has been to stretch the model cycles longer since the 2000s; and the 1SC, 2GS, had 9 and 8 year cycles, respectively. For a supercar to gestate longer is not surprising from my perspective on Lexus; the original LS 400 had no set time frame on its development, and conservative-minded Toyota took the longest to develop its luxury brand.
As for how the LF-A formula has gone, I've heard so many different things. First it was a V8, then it was a hybrid powertrain, then it was something else. AFAIK there were many different plans considered and tested. There was the report that it was supposed to debut after Toyota's first F1 victory. Additionally, some would say the debut of the GT-R stole some of the LF-A's thunder. Overall, considering Toyota's conservative approach to product development, I'm not surprised one bit that the LF-A development has become so elongated. And yes, it is frustrating for enthusiasts. What will the impact be when the vehicle finally comes out? We may yet see...
03-03-09, 01:15 PM
#1773
Encore,
All in all I can see what you mean, and hopefully the extended time spent in development will translate into the final product. I still have concerns about the LF-A's performance and impact in comparison to some of it's rivals because the car has been around for so long and the ever changing and evolving competition.
The GT-R Proto concept was shown in 2005, the same year as LF-A I. Last year the Nissan actually hit dealers which is a full three years before the LF-A is projected to. In the car world, that is almost an eternity.
(That last part is also directed towards Koma's post)
All in all I can see what you mean, and hopefully the extended time spent in development will translate into the final product. I still have concerns about the LF-A's performance and impact in comparison to some of it's rivals because the car has been around for so long and the ever changing and evolving competition.
The GT-R Proto concept was shown in 2005, the same year as LF-A I. Last year the Nissan actually hit dealers which is a full three years before the LF-A is projected to. In the car world, that is almost an eternity.
(That last part is also directed towards Koma's post)
03-03-09, 01:20 PM
#1774
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Difference being that Ghosen mandated the GT-R for production from day one. It proceeded in a steady motion from prototype(s) to production. And when it did finally come out it was in step with the times. I can see that, unless they do some meaningful updating, the LF-A will not be not be a stand out in any way. God forbid if Infiniti beats them to market with a production version of the Essence coupe.
03-03-09, 01:58 PM
#1775
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I think it would be a helluva stretch to consider the Infiniti Essence a Lexus LFA rival even if they do build it.
The Infiniti Essence is, simply, a feeler for what a luxury version of the Nissan 370Z would be like, as I wrote back in July in this article: http://my.is/forums/f41/what-should-...t-deux-365580/
The Infiniti Essence is, simply, a feeler for what a luxury version of the Nissan 370Z would be like, as I wrote back in July in this article: http://my.is/forums/f41/what-should-...t-deux-365580/
03-03-09, 02:03 PM
#1776
I think it would be a helluva stretch to consider the Infiniti Essence a Lexus LFA rival even if they do build it.
The Infiniti Essence is, simply, a feeler for what a luxury version of the Nissan 370Z would be like, as I wrote back in July in this article: http://my.is/forums/f41/what-should-...t-deux-365580/
The Infiniti Essence is, simply, a feeler for what a luxury version of the Nissan 370Z would be like, as I wrote back in July in this article: http://my.is/forums/f41/what-should-...t-deux-365580/
03-03-09, 02:08 PM
#1777
Lexus Test Driver
*IF* they are producing the LF-A, I think it would be smarter for them to try to price it as low as possible and sell more of them rather than price it too high so that very few people would want to get it - they just might end up with roughly the same total revenue from the sales either way, but hopefully more because of lower pricing, I think it's still better to have more people actually buying the car, rather than have almost everyone just looking and talking about it.
I agree. Also, the fact of the matter is for $225k you can find yourself in a brand new Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4, and while I love Lexus and everything, I'm not sure I or anyone here would choose a Lexus over a Lamborghini. While Lexus has a great deal of cachet, it's still not that high. I can see this car going for $175k tops.
It would be nice if they planned on redesigning the car when it comes out in 2011 but that obviously won't happen. We will have been looking at the same overall shape and design for the last 6 years at that point and quite frankly, the car is going to look dated unless there is a major overhaul.
There will also be a new Ferrari F450, Gallardo successor, MB SLS, and a new911 by then...
There will also be a new Ferrari F450, Gallardo successor, MB SLS, and a new911 by then...
Last edited by gengar; 03-03-09 at 02:12 PM.
03-03-09, 02:18 PM
#1779
Encore,
All in all I can see what you mean, and hopefully the extended time spent in development will translate into the final product. I still have concerns about the LF-A's performance and impact in comparison to some of it's rivals because the car has been around for so long and the ever changing and evolving competition.
All in all I can see what you mean, and hopefully the extended time spent in development will translate into the final product. I still have concerns about the LF-A's performance and impact in comparison to some of it's rivals because the car has been around for so long and the ever changing and evolving competition.
I say 'delay' in quotes because there never has been a formal announcement of production, or even confirmation, and everything has been rumors aside from the concept and cryptic official statements. Naturally these have taken a life of their own when amplified by car magazines and websites...for good and crazy.
03-03-09, 02:27 PM
#1781
Dynamically? No, but it's a 911.
Subtle improvements here and there are all the car really needs. Plus it would probably be GT- S/1/2/3 variants that compete with the LF-A but none the less, Porsche is a very formidable adversary in this arena and should not be ignored.
03-03-09, 05:10 PM
#1782
Lexus Champion
Visually? No
Dynamically? No, but it's a 911.
Subtle improvements here and there are all the car really needs. Plus it would probably be GT- S/1/2/3 variants that compete with the LF-A but none the less, Porsche is a very formidable adversary in this arena and should not be ignored.
Dynamically? No, but it's a 911.
Subtle improvements here and there are all the car really needs. Plus it would probably be GT- S/1/2/3 variants that compete with the LF-A but none the less, Porsche is a very formidable adversary in this arena and should not be ignored.
03-03-09, 05:17 PM
#1783
The GT-R Proto concept was shown in 2005, the same year as LF-A I. Last year the Nissan actually hit dealers which is a full three years before the LF-A is projected to. In the car world, that is almost an eternity.
(That last part is also directed towards Koma's post)
(That last part is also directed towards Koma's post)
03-03-09, 05:20 PM
#1784
Lexus Test Driver
I could care less about the LF-A and if it ever gets produced. I look at a car like the GTR and see its progression from the R32 to the present day exotic killer and the M3 (E30-E90) and so on and so forth, and I can only imagine what the IS-F will become in the years to fallow. What if Lexus goes forced induction? What if an AWD twin turbo version comes out in four years producing 580 hp? The fact that Lexus has introduced the F-line and cars like the IS-F and prototype LF-A is awesome!
03-03-09, 06:41 PM
#1785
Porsche is an established brand in this arena as you mention yourself, and Lexus is not. They needed someting to make a huge splash and become an established competitor like the 911 but it just seems that as time goes on peopl careless and less about the LF-A. When the car comes out its going to be more of, "Oh they actually made the thing after all those years of acting like they wouldn't" instead of "OMFG Lexus built a Ferrari/Lambo killer!!!". They lost that "bang" a long time ago IMO. People are sick of being teased by the LF-A.