MR_F1

I don't doubt they could sell more, the question is would they? Maybe as somebody suggested they'd up the production run later in the life cycle.

Tekknikal

the only weird thing to me is that toyota doesnt have a single sports car except the lf-a.
they modded an IS and are building a lf-a. that's it. coupes as a whole are slim pickings from toyota.

it appears that toyota isn't into driver's cars. theyre entertaining the idea with the is-f to see how profitable it can be... and they're doing the lf-a as a showcase... but this isn't honda or nissan (or bmw or porsche or ferrari) its not in their character.

as a result i dont think they should have bothered. but if they want to try to add another driver's car to the market i wont complain

Tekknikal

i have to flip it-
why wouldnt they?

it would be far better for them to stabilize demand and get more cars out there and show the world how good it is...i mean the difference in numbers isnt going to make the car significantly less exclusive, so why not?

unless of course that's not their plan and they just want to position it as a showpiece. but why on earth would lexus do that? to prove they can make something expensive? i thought the whole idea behind the brand was quality in something you could use on a daily basis. that's what the toyota guys were saying to me.

btw just another point about how little 26/mth is.
ASSUMING the us gets half (which again is a big assumption), remember dealers will want to hold onto a car. when do you think customers would start taking deliveries? a year out at the earliest. again its too few.

TRDFantasy

You guys are arguing mostly about rumours and speculation. We don't know yet if those production figures are true. 26/month could be for the Japanese market, or it could be totally off who knows.

As for exclusivity, supercars are VERY exclusive let's face it. No matter what supercar you're talking about it's very hard to get a hold of one.

The whole point of an exclusive supercar is that NOT everyone can get a hold of one.

If Lexus does not limit LF-A production and everyone who wants an LF-A is able to get one, then it is no longer exclusive.

Yes, with the LF-A you WILL be able to use it on a daily basis and it will no doubt be a refined supercar. But at the same time, it WILL be exclusive and it WILL be hard to get one no matter what production levels are at.

The LF-A is going to be a showcase for not just Lexus but for Toyota itself. The LF-A will be a technological showcase and regardless of production levels YES it will be a 'showpiece'. Since the car will be a technological showcase for the entire company of course it will be sold in limited numbers.

As for sports cars from Toyota, we will be getting an IS Coupe and a sports car under the Toyota brand is forthcoming as well. Toyota hasn't had much sport offerings in the past few years, but that is changing.

The LF-A should not be compared to the 911 Turbo for a variety of reasons. The 911 is an icon with a legendary reputation. Even the Corvette can't match the reputation of the 911. The 911 is the MOST iconic sports car in the world, period. That's one reason why Porsche sells a lot of them. Another reason is that the 911T is one level below that of the LF-A. The LF-A will very likely be priced closer to a GT2 than a 911T. Even Porsche with their reputation sells only a limited number of GT2s.

Tekknikal

26/mth vs 50-60/mth won't have a material impact exclusivity.

btw, when there's an official announcement on other 'sports cars' from toyota, we'll talk about that then. as of now it's barely better than a baseless rumor

also, i'll bet that when the LF-A does come out, you'll see a 911 in their competitive analysis presentation slides.


btw- if im wrong on upcoming cars please point out where? as of now toyota is not in -or trying to be in- the game as nissan/bmw/mb/etc are

TRDFantasy

We shall see soon enough what production levels will be at. There has been no official LF-A announcement but we know it's coming. Toyota actually HAS confirmed that a sports car is coming. On Autonews a few days ago there was an article saying that Toyota is going to bring a sports car to market soon.

911 is not just one car; it's a whole mode lineup. In terms of exterior dimensions the LF-A is close to the 911. Even if the 911T is benchmarked, what I'm saying is the LF-A will likely exceed it in more ways than one.

Also what do you mean by "being in the game"? Lexus has a supercar coming, there is a performance sub-brand for Lexus (which Acura and Infiniti don't have) and there is at least one Toyota branded sports car coming in the future.

f.azim@gul

http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-l...eed-bumps.html

f.azim@gul

Report: Lexus LF-A development hits speed bumps
November13


A year ago, common wisdom was that Lexus would debut the production version of its LF-A super car at the Tokyo motor show in October of this year. Later, most industry observers assumed we'd see an updated concept. Instead, the Tokyo Motor Show came and went, and we got neither.


According to a new report, development of the LF-A is definitely not going according to plan, and delays are due to a number of internal issues plaguing the project.

As indicated by previous reports, the scope of the project expanded to include both a V10 version and a V8 hybrid version — a move that has surely contributed to the delay.

Toyota has also apparently diverted engineers and resources from the LF-A project to other, more mainstream tasks, according to Winding Road. Apparently, Toyota's push from global expansion has made projects like the LF-A less worthy of resources.

Lastly, engineers are said to be struggling to make the car reach an internal top speed goal of 350 km/h (218 mph), which has been publicized since the first concept's debut.

In May of 2006, a report surfaced indicating Lexus decided to ditch plans for an aluminum body and instead opt for a carbon fiber one. It's not known if this report is accurate, or if that decision also plays into the delays.

The most recent LF-A concept debuted at the Detroit auto show in January.
----------------------------------------------------

MR_F1

it was common wisdom?

goes to show, it's true what they say happens when you assume

encore888

That's the same article that Tekknikal linked to earlier, which originated on Winding Road, the online car magazine.

I think it's interesting how Lexus is doing the sports cars, and not Toyota as much. I think there's a differentiating factor here. Lexus is differentiating from its parent more and more. Also perhaps with the price premiums paid, the sports car market makes more sense in the luxury arena, financially. Look at Mazda and the RX-8 and how sales slumped after the first year. Toyota discontinued the MR-2, Celica, Supra etc. for a reason. But then again they might dip their toe back in with the FT-HS.

But the sports cars seem destined for Lexus. I still don't think of the LF-A as a Supra successor as others have opined though. It's a Lexus.

Koma

iTrader: (3)

The title of your post is a little misleading. The article only states that they reconsidered a carbon fiber body over an aluminum one and the little snags they've run into over the engineers.

Tekknikal

there is no supra successor
lexus is not differentiating itself from toyota any more than it ever has (for better or worse)

toyota is not in the game of building driver's cars
they want to build a machine that has sex appeal (in so many words) and exclusivity.

that's the lf-a.

the arm they'll sell it through is that which is best suited, lexus

notice how the mr2 is dead and not replaced. same with the supra, celica, etc

the ft-hs has not been greenlit for production and the is coupe is nowhere to be seen. only unsubstantiated rumors run for both.

JessePS

One thing it be amazing if they get the car to do 210-220 mph and have the drag be at like 0.26

TRDFantasy

The FT-HS has been received extremely well by the public. Toyota also went to the trouble of making a totally custom hybrid system with the Supra HV-R and won the 24 Hrs of Tokachi race as well as the 'Race engine of the year'. Also why do you think Toyota used a Supra body shell on that race car? Underneath the body shell was a state-of-the-art hybrid system, yet they used a shell of a car that hasn't been in production for years. If Toyota for example used the FT-HS body shell people would be going nuts about it. Rumours from Japan say that next year Toyota will further develop upon what they learned with the Supra HV-R and we may see a Toyota hybrid race car with a new body. The strong rumour is that the tech in the Supra HV-R will find it's way into an FT-HS production car and parts of the tech may go into the hybrid LF-A project as well.

All of these are rumours, but keep in mind LF-A production is not "officially" green-lit either.

Like I said, several Toyota executives and engineers have already confirmed a Toyota sports car IS coming. They simply haven't said what it's going to be or when it's coming.

Toyota is in the game of serving the market. If Toyota sees a market, they WILL build it, even if that means making a supercar or a more sporty cars. In case you haven't noticed, ALL of Toyota's new cars have been getting sportier than previous generations or models. This is a company-wide philosophy being utilized right now.

Toyota also understands that it's reputation and image is more important than ever. Even if a market is limited, Toyota is now willing to spend the time and money to develop a vehicle for that market to bolster it's image.

FYI, Akio Toyoda (who is widely considered to replace Watanabe as next CEO) is very vocal in the company about offering more sport products and raising quality to ever-higher standards.

You can believe what you want, but we will see soon enough that Toyota isn't joking about having more sport offerings. If you think that's the case then you don't know Toyota very well.

encore888

I do think Lexus is differentiating from Toyota some more. They have their own design centers now, their own design language, and are moving to their own platforms. However yes they still remain joined at the hip to Toyota, which is mostly good IMO but sometimes detracts from image.

If they make more coupes for Lexus, and do perhaps around one for Toyota, that will be a differentiator.