LF-A & GS-F Delayed ???
08-11-08, 11:43 AM
#16
Imo, the F series cars should have a racing heritage before being put to market ala the M cars, AMG cars, V series cars, RS cars, R cars before it. Unproven enthusiast machines will be a tough sell. Forget magazines & going goo goo ga ga over photos.. Folks who buy this caliber of car want racetrack proven results.. Enter more F cars in 24 hour of Lemans, WTC, & others to get the buzz amoung the buying enthusiasts..
08-11-08, 11:53 AM
#18
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Imo, the F series cars should have a racing heritage before being put to market ala the M cars, AMG cars, V series cars, RS cars, R cars before it
I would rather see Toyota bring back the Supra for a world markets which would have a better chance at sales that a $160,000 lexus.
08-11-08, 12:04 PM
#19
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Another Article
Tought Times Delay Lexus Performance Cars
Toyota’s luxury Lexus brand has been on the backslide this year, which promises to impact the future of the brand’s lineup. Performance models will likely be put on hold, with an emphasis on fuel-efficient vehicles in the near future.
The first two casualties of the new way of thinking at Lexus will likely be its two most promising performance models – the GS-F and the LF-A. The GS-F is a high-performance version of Lexus’ GS sports sedan, and was intended to take on the heavy-hitters in the segment, such as BMW’s M5. However, worsening economic conditions and rising fuel prices have put the program on hold, with the future of the GS-F in the air.
The LF-A has also been delayed, with its launch date now likely moved back to the spring of 2010. Economic conditions are also partly to blame for the LF-A’s delay, but cars like the Nissan GT-R and Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 are also responsible for the delay. The GT-R and ZR1 have lapped the famed Nürburgring in under 7 minutes 30 seconds, a target Lexus engineers have yet to eclipse with the LF-A.
While performance may be at the backburner at Lexus, the company is expected to launch coupe and convertible versions of its entry-level IS sedan. According to Automotive News, Lexus has trademarked the IS 250C, IS 300C and IS 350C – indicating three new models are just around the corner.
Rising fuel prices also has Lexus considering the launch of a small crossover in the U.S. market. The luxury marque will soon launch a Toyota RAV4-based crossover in Europe and Japan, with sales now possible for the U.S. by 2013.
A Lexus-badged Prius model is still a go, with the new model hitting dealerships in 2010 as a 2011 model.
Toyota’s luxury Lexus brand has been on the backslide this year, which promises to impact the future of the brand’s lineup. Performance models will likely be put on hold, with an emphasis on fuel-efficient vehicles in the near future.
The first two casualties of the new way of thinking at Lexus will likely be its two most promising performance models – the GS-F and the LF-A. The GS-F is a high-performance version of Lexus’ GS sports sedan, and was intended to take on the heavy-hitters in the segment, such as BMW’s M5. However, worsening economic conditions and rising fuel prices have put the program on hold, with the future of the GS-F in the air.
The LF-A has also been delayed, with its launch date now likely moved back to the spring of 2010. Economic conditions are also partly to blame for the LF-A’s delay, but cars like the Nissan GT-R and Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 are also responsible for the delay. The GT-R and ZR1 have lapped the famed Nürburgring in under 7 minutes 30 seconds, a target Lexus engineers have yet to eclipse with the LF-A.
While performance may be at the backburner at Lexus, the company is expected to launch coupe and convertible versions of its entry-level IS sedan. According to Automotive News, Lexus has trademarked the IS 250C, IS 300C and IS 350C – indicating three new models are just around the corner.
Rising fuel prices also has Lexus considering the launch of a small crossover in the U.S. market. The luxury marque will soon launch a Toyota RAV4-based crossover in Europe and Japan, with sales now possible for the U.S. by 2013.
A Lexus-badged Prius model is still a go, with the new model hitting dealerships in 2010 as a 2011 model.
08-11-08, 12:34 PM
#20
Tought Times Delay Lexus Performance Cars
The LF-A has also been delayed, with its launch date now likely moved back to the spring of 2010. Economic conditions are also partly to blame for the LF-A’s delay, but cars like the Nissan GT-R and Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 are also responsible for the delay. The GT-R and ZR1 have lapped the famed Nürburgring in under 7 minutes 30 seconds, a target Lexus engineers have yet to eclipse with the LF-A.
...
A Lexus-badged Prius model is still a go, with the new model hitting dealerships in 2010 as a 2011 model.
The LF-A has also been delayed, with its launch date now likely moved back to the spring of 2010. Economic conditions are also partly to blame for the LF-A’s delay, but cars like the Nissan GT-R and Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 are also responsible for the delay. The GT-R and ZR1 have lapped the famed Nürburgring in under 7 minutes 30 seconds, a target Lexus engineers have yet to eclipse with the LF-A.
...
A Lexus-badged Prius model is still a go, with the new model hitting dealerships in 2010 as a 2011 model.
1. Why didn't they mention that the unofficial time for the LF-A on the 'Ring is 7 mins 24 secs? I know it's "unofficial" but since they brought up the the lap time they should at least mention that in the article. If the Arthur has no knowledge about the LF-A unofficial lap time then his article has no credibility in my book.
2. A Lexus-badge Prius is "still" a go? There is nothing "still" about it, Toyota has already announced that they will unveil a dedicated Lexus hybrid in next year's Detroit Auto Show numerous times.
08-11-08, 12:39 PM
#22
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I now call this article a total BS:
1. Why didn't they mention that the unofficial time for the LF-A on the 'Ring is 7 mins 24 secs? I know it's "unofficial" but since they brought up the the lap time they should at least mention that in the article. If the Arthur has no knowledge about the LF-A unofficial lap time then his article has no credibility in my book.
1. Why didn't they mention that the unofficial time for the LF-A on the 'Ring is 7 mins 24 secs? I know it's "unofficial" but since they brought up the the lap time they should at least mention that in the article. If the Arthur has no knowledge about the LF-A unofficial lap time then his article has no credibility in my book.
This is irritating for me because I've admired the LF-A since I first saw it, and that was a few years ago. I want to see what this car can really do, not allegedly do. It looks great, the engine note sounds incredible but bring it already.
If there's any truth to this we we don't see the car for another 2 years how relevant will it still be?
08-11-08, 12:48 PM
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If there's any truth to this we we don't see the car for another 2 years how relevant will it still be?
08-11-08, 12:52 PM
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I can't blame them for delaying the GS-F if they do....especially without a real tranny, I don't think the car will sell. I can almost guarantee they will delay the LF-A just to see what Acura will bring to the table with the NSX replacement. Toyota just hates being first in the market and likes to match & hopefully raise their competitor, as evidenced time and again in the past (Z32 and MkIV Supra for example).
08-11-08, 01:12 PM
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Man it is fascinating all the trivia that people can dredge up to say that this article is bogus. With the possible exception of the IS-F which is what, a year old, Lexus has shown little to no interest in the performance side of the Luxury/Sport Sedan business. And that was years before gasoline went sky high, the world economy is still looking for a bottom, and credit availability (home equity lines, finance rates, lease rates, etc.) that funded a lot of the acquisition of these vehicles has been severely diminished. Totally stop or delay even more expensive and gas guzzling models for a mfr that isn't performance oriented? Duh.
The biggest problem with this article isn't whether it's based on correctly leaked facts but that it does make sense. They aren't selling enough GS's to justify doing anything to the current lineup IMO and anyone who thinks a GS-F will miraculously make Lexus a performance brand, well I disagree. As for the LF-A, Lexus needs to be sure it doesn't forget where it fits into the Luxury market and $200K exotics isn't where they have any experience to draw on. If I were Lexus, I would worry a lot more about the S class passing the LS in sales. The buyer in that segment isn't going to opt for the LS because Lexus offers the LF-A any more than I am going to go get an Impala because Chevy offers the Corvette.
The whole thing could be bogus but you don't need to be a genius to connect the dots for it to make sense. After all, this is the auto business not an after school special.
The biggest problem with this article isn't whether it's based on correctly leaked facts but that it does make sense. They aren't selling enough GS's to justify doing anything to the current lineup IMO and anyone who thinks a GS-F will miraculously make Lexus a performance brand, well I disagree. As for the LF-A, Lexus needs to be sure it doesn't forget where it fits into the Luxury market and $200K exotics isn't where they have any experience to draw on. If I were Lexus, I would worry a lot more about the S class passing the LS in sales. The buyer in that segment isn't going to opt for the LS because Lexus offers the LF-A any more than I am going to go get an Impala because Chevy offers the Corvette.
The whole thing could be bogus but you don't need to be a genius to connect the dots for it to make sense. After all, this is the auto business not an after school special.
08-11-08, 02:15 PM
#26
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The original Automotive News article
The multiple links that GS69 has posted in this thread are commentary and spin on an Automotive News article. Here's the original:
Lexus cars await redesign while buyers snub trucks
by Mark Rechtin
Toyota's luxury division is in a bit of a pickle.
Lexus sales have been weighted toward the RX 350 crossover and large SUVs at a time when the market is moving away from those vehicles. Also, Lexus released a sequence of passenger cars several years ago, which are starting to look dated while still a couple of years away from redesign.
On the plus side, the RX 350 redesign is just around the corner. Also, with consumers rapidly embracing hybrids, Lexus will get the only dedicated-hybrid luxury model next year. Many people have traded in luxury vehicles to get a Toyota Prius. Imagine the fervor for a thrifty hybrid vehicle that does not sacrifice luxury.
IS: The IS likely has been pushed to a six-year cycle, as Lexus takes more of a BMW approach with alternating sheet metal and powertrain changes every three years.
Lexus recently trademarked the names IS 250C, IS 300C and IS 350C, which would indicate a coupe is coming. Today, it sells only a sedan. Expect a coupe/convertible to arrive in the spring of 2009 as a 2010 model. The sedan's restyled sheet metal happens for the 2012 model year.
ES: The ES is in lock step with the Toyota Camry platform, and Camry stays on a five-year cycle. The ES 350 redesign will come in the spring of 2011 as a 2012 model. The next generation will offer a hybrid model, borrowing the V-6 from the RX 400h.
GS: The idea of a GS-F high-performance sedan — think BMW M5 fighter — has been put on hold until the economy improves. Designers are debating styling issues for the redesign due for the 2011 model year.
LS: As a midcycle change, the LS lineup gets all-wheel drive and a reskin for the 2010 model year. The redesign happens for the 2013 model year.
SC: The aging SC hardtop/convertible has been in the Lexus line since 2001. The SC rides on a dedicated, expensive platform, which has some within Toyota arguing for its eventual demise. At this point, there is a market for the car, although small. Just 1,373 cars were sold in the United States in the first seven months of the year. A redesign is unlikely.
Some within Lexus believe the upcoming IS will satisfy most Lexus convertible buffs.
LF-1: The LF-1 high-performance car had been expected this year but has been delayed for at least two reasons.
Insiders say the LF-1 is not hitting performance objectives in line with a $160,000-plus performance car. Second, launching a six-figure sports car into a global recession might doom it.
At this point, Lexus likely will wait until the spring of 2010 to bring it to market as a 2011 model. Of course, by that time, the car's styling will be stale. The first concept with styling cues that will be seen on the LF-1 debuted in 2005.
Hybrid model: Lexus will get its own hybrid-only car, but in a different configuration and design from the Toyota Prius. It is likely to arrive in early 2010 as a 2011 model. The car is likely to be a four-cylinder small sedan. Typically, Lexus hybrids have been about performance, but this one will be Lexus' first hybrid vehicle designed primarily to be fuel thrifty.
Small crossover: A Lexus version of the awd RAV4 will be created for the Japanese and European markets. Previously, the United States did not want it, but that was before $4-a-gallon gasoline. Now, with such vehicles as the Volvo XC60 and BMW X3 taking off, there is a contingency plan to bring it here for the 2013 model year.
RX 350: A redesign comes in early 2009 as a 2010 model, looking quite similar to the 2007 Tokyo show vehicle. Expect it to keep its successful recipe as the ultimate suburban transport, while growing slightly larger. Buyer demographics show no desire for a third-row seat, so there won't be one.
Expect the hybrid variant to get more power, as Toyota already has filed trademarks on RX 430h, RX 440h and RX 450h.
GX 470: The Toyota 4Runner's assembly line twin is out of sequence with its sibling by a couple of years. That gives Lexus time to evaluate whether it needs two big truck-based SUVs.
A possible replacement for today's GX is a seven-seat, car-based crossover that might keep the GX name. The car-based vehicle would be derived from the Lexus HPX Concept, which was based on the GS sedan platform. A review is under way, meaning the timetable for a redesign is fluid.
LX 470: It was redesigned for the 2008 model year. No major changes are planned in the next several years given the collapse of the SUV market.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...311/1078/OEM01
Jruhi4 commentary: Automotive News' annual predictions are a reputable but by no means infallible source of information. This year's predictions, by and large, feel quite credible and accurate, but they've been wrong before. After all, they once predicted a supercharged version of the 1st-generation Lexus IS 300 as a factory option...
And, speaking of commentary and spin on the AN article, here's mine:
http://my.is/forums/f41/automotive-n...dition-368182/
Lexus cars await redesign while buyers snub trucks
by Mark Rechtin
Toyota's luxury division is in a bit of a pickle.
Lexus sales have been weighted toward the RX 350 crossover and large SUVs at a time when the market is moving away from those vehicles. Also, Lexus released a sequence of passenger cars several years ago, which are starting to look dated while still a couple of years away from redesign.
On the plus side, the RX 350 redesign is just around the corner. Also, with consumers rapidly embracing hybrids, Lexus will get the only dedicated-hybrid luxury model next year. Many people have traded in luxury vehicles to get a Toyota Prius. Imagine the fervor for a thrifty hybrid vehicle that does not sacrifice luxury.
IS: The IS likely has been pushed to a six-year cycle, as Lexus takes more of a BMW approach with alternating sheet metal and powertrain changes every three years.
Lexus recently trademarked the names IS 250C, IS 300C and IS 350C, which would indicate a coupe is coming. Today, it sells only a sedan. Expect a coupe/convertible to arrive in the spring of 2009 as a 2010 model. The sedan's restyled sheet metal happens for the 2012 model year.
ES: The ES is in lock step with the Toyota Camry platform, and Camry stays on a five-year cycle. The ES 350 redesign will come in the spring of 2011 as a 2012 model. The next generation will offer a hybrid model, borrowing the V-6 from the RX 400h.
GS: The idea of a GS-F high-performance sedan — think BMW M5 fighter — has been put on hold until the economy improves. Designers are debating styling issues for the redesign due for the 2011 model year.
LS: As a midcycle change, the LS lineup gets all-wheel drive and a reskin for the 2010 model year. The redesign happens for the 2013 model year.
SC: The aging SC hardtop/convertible has been in the Lexus line since 2001. The SC rides on a dedicated, expensive platform, which has some within Toyota arguing for its eventual demise. At this point, there is a market for the car, although small. Just 1,373 cars were sold in the United States in the first seven months of the year. A redesign is unlikely.
Some within Lexus believe the upcoming IS will satisfy most Lexus convertible buffs.
LF-1: The LF-1 high-performance car had been expected this year but has been delayed for at least two reasons.
Insiders say the LF-1 is not hitting performance objectives in line with a $160,000-plus performance car. Second, launching a six-figure sports car into a global recession might doom it.
At this point, Lexus likely will wait until the spring of 2010 to bring it to market as a 2011 model. Of course, by that time, the car's styling will be stale. The first concept with styling cues that will be seen on the LF-1 debuted in 2005.
Hybrid model: Lexus will get its own hybrid-only car, but in a different configuration and design from the Toyota Prius. It is likely to arrive in early 2010 as a 2011 model. The car is likely to be a four-cylinder small sedan. Typically, Lexus hybrids have been about performance, but this one will be Lexus' first hybrid vehicle designed primarily to be fuel thrifty.
Small crossover: A Lexus version of the awd RAV4 will be created for the Japanese and European markets. Previously, the United States did not want it, but that was before $4-a-gallon gasoline. Now, with such vehicles as the Volvo XC60 and BMW X3 taking off, there is a contingency plan to bring it here for the 2013 model year.
RX 350: A redesign comes in early 2009 as a 2010 model, looking quite similar to the 2007 Tokyo show vehicle. Expect it to keep its successful recipe as the ultimate suburban transport, while growing slightly larger. Buyer demographics show no desire for a third-row seat, so there won't be one.
Expect the hybrid variant to get more power, as Toyota already has filed trademarks on RX 430h, RX 440h and RX 450h.
GX 470: The Toyota 4Runner's assembly line twin is out of sequence with its sibling by a couple of years. That gives Lexus time to evaluate whether it needs two big truck-based SUVs.
A possible replacement for today's GX is a seven-seat, car-based crossover that might keep the GX name. The car-based vehicle would be derived from the Lexus HPX Concept, which was based on the GS sedan platform. A review is under way, meaning the timetable for a redesign is fluid.
LX 470: It was redesigned for the 2008 model year. No major changes are planned in the next several years given the collapse of the SUV market.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...311/1078/OEM01
Jruhi4 commentary: Automotive News' annual predictions are a reputable but by no means infallible source of information. This year's predictions, by and large, feel quite credible and accurate, but they've been wrong before. After all, they once predicted a supercharged version of the 1st-generation Lexus IS 300 as a factory option...
And, speaking of commentary and spin on the AN article, here's mine:
http://my.is/forums/f41/automotive-n...dition-368182/
08-11-08, 02:18 PM
#27
I'm really surprised about the GX not being replaced... seeing as it's the Toyota Land Cruiser model for most of the rest of the world, as the American Land Cruiser is usually a touch too big for Europe. I feel like the GX is the sensibly priced alternative to the LX. Although maybe Body on frame SUV's are now a thing of the past, other than ultra lux LX570s and Range Rovers.
08-11-08, 06:41 PM
#29
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Total BULL ******.
1- A GS-F was never announced, and its way too late in the GS product cycle to release anyway. It was never coming before 2012
2- I bet the LF-A will be out next year as a 2010 model. It will be faster, handle and ride better than the ZR-1 or GT-R. All takers welcome.
3-The SC is going nowhere, an IS coupe CANNOT replace the SC
f'kin auto journalists just **** me off sometimes. [/rant]
1- A GS-F was never announced, and its way too late in the GS product cycle to release anyway. It was never coming before 2012
2- I bet the LF-A will be out next year as a 2010 model. It will be faster, handle and ride better than the ZR-1 or GT-R. All takers welcome.
3-The SC is going nowhere, an IS coupe CANNOT replace the SC
f'kin auto journalists just **** me off sometimes. [/rant]
08-11-08, 07:04 PM
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While I appreciate the quality of Lexus and my wife loves hers, I found absolutely NOTHING appealing about the Lexus car lineup until the IS-F came out.
I know you folks love them, but to me they are the epitome of boring, anesthetic novocaine in the rear, hemorrhoid-cushion ride, "don't want to feel the road at all" cars.
The LF-A looked promising, the GS-F didn't really interest me, but a re-designed SC-F might.
They hit a lot of fun buttons for me in the IS-F, so I bought one. It's not perfect, but I do like it a lot. The rest of the Lexus lineup, the paint and interior colors, the design, lack any real emotional appeal to me at all.