BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for telling

I guess I can understand that policy. But I don't understand the logic behind it, since it is the same car built at the same place

That is absurd, what do window tint have anything to do with anything?

I know that part. I have friends that drive around the street of Japan in ridiculously loud 1000 hp GTR and the police never care about them. I love Japanese police!!

rominl

iTrader: (4)

interesting! yeah can't say about japanese market, evidently lexus is doing things different there. here in the US if you don't want your car the ticket goes back to lexus. is your dealership keeping an eye on this for you?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

it can be a policy lexus enforces to try avoid cars "crossing" different regions

05RollaXRS

Lexus USA's reply to my email regarding release of official LFA Nurburgring lap time:


"Dear Mr. Sheikh:

Thank you for contacting the Lexus Customer Satisfaction Department. We appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts. It is through input, such as yours, that we are able to gain greater insight as to how our customers perceive our service and products.

We received your inquiry and are currently in the process of researching your concerns. Please allow us three to five business days to complete the review process. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

If you require further assistance, please respond to this e-mail, or contact Lexus Customer Satisfaction at 1-800-255-3987, Monday through Friday, 5:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M., or Saturday, 7:00 A.M. to 4:00 P.M., Pacific Time.

Sincerely,

Briana Barkley
Lexus Customer Satisfaction"

Mister Two

LOL you call that automated robotic template response a reply? Good try though. Last year I wrote to Scott Brownlee, the General Manager of Lexus PR Team in Europe, regarding the chief engineer's unofficial comments of the LFA 'Ring time and the lack of an official lap time, and this is what I got from him (thanks to him for actually taking the time to reply):

"Hi,

I've had a quick look at the wiki page and my first impression is that it
is a fine example of why making official claims about 'Ring lap times is at
best a double-edged sword. Nissan and Porsche got into a rather unseemly
public slating match a while back which did neither brand any favours and
certainly can't have helped Porsche either way.

There has also been a bit of backlash among the enthusiast press (Autocar,
etc) to the whole Ring developed road cars thing as increasingly unsporty
cars were being - apparently - tested and honed over the track. It’s a
great track, but its value in product development can be over estimated.

I do not know what time the LFA did or what spec it was running in when it
may or may not have done a quick time. As such I am as much in the dark
over the engineer’s comments. I suspect he has pushed to an answer by
questioning. It certainly is not some Machiavellian PR strategy, believe
me.

Frankly, unless the times are set on the same day and on pretty similar
spec road tyres it is a pretty meaningless comparison. And that’s before
you factor in driver talent…

My honest reaction is to be pleased to see a Lexus being part of the
discussion. LFA is now - at last - doing much to add to the Lexus image. We
might have taken rather long to finally announce it and build them, but it
has all the makings of a classic supercar in that it losses us money, but
goes on being referred to in media and enthusiast “discussions” for decades
to come.

Thanks for being a passionate supporter of the brand. There is more to come
to, hopefully, make you proud.

Cheers,

Scott"

I simply gave up afterwards. I don't think they ever will publish an official 'Ring time if Scott's view is representative of Lexus' corporate mentality towards this matter. It's sad that the management people at Lexus do not seem to understand the kind of credentials an official 'Ring time can give to LFA and Lexus' performance image as a whole.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Somebody knows somewhere.. They are just not telling.....


Joe Z

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Dave,

this is just some crazy stuff that Lexus Japan can't get you an allocation....

Did they not see the amount of Lexus' you have owned in the past or currently??


Joe Z

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well that's what happens when lexus is stubborn about allocation in japan

gengar

If they don't, then good. Tanahashi has long said that times, whether lap or spec, weren't metrics for designing the LFA.

Brownlee in his e-mail to you made the same point I have about Nissan and Porsche (I've posted about it before on this forum). I think it's sad that Nissan, in developing the GTR, made a fast Nür time - and specifically, beating the Turbo - their primary goal. I think it's even worse that Porsche then stooped down and made their entire goal with the 997.2 Turbo to beat the GTR.

I'm not saying the Turbo and the GTR aren't great cars, because they are great cars. I just think Nissan and Porsche embarrassed themselves with the way they approached the development of those cars.

Notably, now even Ferrari is blowing hot air with their invention of the "derived from a production car" category to claim a Nür best. In my opinion, Nissan's greatest success with the GTR was not in making the GTR, but managing to get traditional supercar powerhouses to stoop down to their level.

And what has the GTR's Nür time done for the GTR, anyway? Nissan can't sell it even if everyone thinks it's the most amazing car for the money ever produced in history. The lap time only created legions of spec fanboys on the Internet. Maybe that's what Nissan wants - if so, fine, good job. But those guys sure aren't buying the car.

By the way, you can follow Brownlee on Twitter - he frequently makes interesting posts.

Mister Two

Selling the GT-R is not the point of publishing the lap record. The point is to establish Nissan as a leader in performance and technologies and eventually such credentials will help Nissan sell more of their mainstream sports offerings, which the Internet fanboys do buy.

Without an official Nurburgring lap time for the LFA, which we know beats those of most of the LFA's direct rivals, the LFA with the disadvantage of its lower specific horsepower output really does not stand out in any other way, as evident by many media reviews quoting its straightline acceleration and top speed to be worse than those of the 599 and the likes because those are the only official performance stats Lexus give to the public. The best quality of LFA's performance capabilities--its balanced vehicle dynamics--unfortunately cannot be easily quantified and compared to without a well-established yardstick like the Nurburgring lap times. The net effect is that people looking for a sport-oriented car will be reading about the LFA and thinking, "if even the best of Lexus, costing nearly $400k, fails to deliver a superior performance in any way, how can the lowly IS-F/GS-F/SC-F/LS Sport/F-Sport/future Toyota sports cars/sport packages be any good?"

If the LFA is meant to be a halo car, Lexus should do it right and let what it's best at be known (other than breaking wine glasses). Like Nissan was and unlike Porsche and Ferrari are, Lexus is currently sitting low on the performance totem and has everything to gain and nothing to lose from publishing the lap record if it's indeed as good as what the chief engineer unofficially claimed. Lexus will not be "lowering" themselves by doing so as you suggested with your Porsche example, because Lexus is already low to begin with. If Porsche wishes to "lower" themselves to beat Lexus with another car after Lexus publishes their record, that's Porsche's problem.

BTW my questions to Mr. Brownlee were asked via Twitter.

TF109B

there are publications that you can read that have gave a lap time of 7:24 for the LFA before it was even showed off in production trim. Sport Auto's supertest looks like the LFA is besting the 458, since they said 'proved itself with Nurburgring lap time' in the video. They even have a contest where if you can guess the closest time you win something or other. All things indicate that the LFA is performing at or better than it's rivals. Even Journalists are setting fast lap times (evidenced by the goodwood record laps, one 3 seconds faster than a GTR). Top Gear's lap time in the wet was 3 seconds better than a gallardo.

I don't think Lexus is worried about lap times right now because the official production car aint even out. When it is, maybe then we'll see someone push it to it's limits around the ring.

TRDFantasy

Porsche and Nissan have publicly marketed 'Ring times for many years, this is nothing new. Ferrari however, joining this with a 'Ring time of a road-illegal car is ridiculous. Ferrari being a part of this reeks of desperation, and I'm not surprised given their sales are sagging and they are cutting Ferrari production and forcing employee layoffs in Italy.

Exactly, quoted for truth. Toyota for sure knows exactly the times the LFA can do, and the fastest time a stock LFA has ran on the 'Ring, they just are in no rush to release that information. LFA has not even gone into production yet.

Mister Two

This 7:24 figure has been thrown around for a long time but no one outside of Lexus enthusiasts recognizes it because no one knows anything specific about the record lap--who the driver was, whether the car was production-spec'd, how it was timed, not to mention the lack of video evidence or 3rd party verification, etc. Nothing. There's simply nothing so far that can convincingly prove the LFA's capabilities on this modern supercar proving ground.

The Goodwood lap record is unfortunately quite meaningless without a direct rival of the LFA (the 599, the SLS, the Carrera GT, etc.) on the scoreboard, and the Top Gear lap time is unfortunately ruined by a wet track and beating a lowly Gallardo means very little to prove LFA's capabilities against its real rivals. The upcoming SportAuto's lap time most likely won't be nearly as good as the lap times produced by manufacturers' test drivers so that won't help much either.

Thing is, unless Lexus themselves step up to it, the LFA's true performance capabilities and hence Lexus' engineering prowess will likely never be recognized.

TRDFantasy

You should stop being so pessimistic . The Top Gear LFA lap time was a RECORD wet lap on Top Gear's track.

Have patience; once the LFA is in production, I think by next year at the latest we will get some official or semi-official 'Ring lap times for the LFA and Nur-package LFA.

TF109B

you got issues with the lfa or something mister two?

A lot of people know the LFA did a 7:24 according to a publication in prototype form back in 2008. Top gear in the wet and being 3 seconds faster than a car with 4wd and comparable HP and weight speaks volumes. 3 seconds faster than a GTR around goodwood by journalists speaks volumes. There's not a lot of cars that can spank a GTR by 3 seconds, PER LAP. If you got a list of them that are cheaper than the LFA name em off.