Lexus LFA- Discussion, Pictures & News (new colors gloss black, blue, yellow)
08-21-10, 07:18 PM
#2311
Lexus Test Driver
I would not call this "speculation". "Fact finding" would be a more precise term.
I guess, we are discussing why it took the LFA so long to get to 300 KM/H at 50.6 seconds, which is basically slower than even an M5 or M6. Something seemed very wrong about this. Even in AutoCar lame comparison, with a 0 - 100 KM/H in 4.2 seconds, they got 0 - 150 mph in 18 seconds so something sounded out of whack about the 150 - 180 mph acceleration.
The final answer was in the article that they could not find a way to retract the spoiler at high speeds, which caused too much wind drag (0.3981, which is not unlike most SUVs) and thus increasing the weight of the car dramatically resulting in loss of acceleration. Great for stability and downforce, not so great for best acceleration.
I guess, we are discussing why it took the LFA so long to get to 300 KM/H at 50.6 seconds, which is basically slower than even an M5 or M6. Something seemed very wrong about this. Even in AutoCar lame comparison, with a 0 - 100 KM/H in 4.2 seconds, they got 0 - 150 mph in 18 seconds so something sounded out of whack about the 150 - 180 mph acceleration.
The final answer was in the article that they could not find a way to retract the spoiler at high speeds, which caused too much wind drag (0.3981, which is not unlike most SUVs) and thus increasing the weight of the car dramatically resulting in loss of acceleration. Great for stability and downforce, not so great for best acceleration.
I think you can retract the spoiler. Bottom line is we can speculate all we want (and you guys are doing a great job with fact finding and links etc, it is really appreciated) but outside of the usual bias the LFA didn't exactly scorch the Earth.
And should it? I've said it before it simply doesn't have the mettle to be some sort of dominant car. What it provides is distinct Japanese flavor, tech, quality and impeccable construction at a supercar pace.
We shall see in future tests when the actual 2011 model is released.
And should it? I've said it before it simply doesn't have the mettle to be some sort of dominant car. What it provides is distinct Japanese flavor, tech, quality and impeccable construction at a supercar pace.
We shall see in future tests when the actual 2011 model is released.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 08-21-10 at 07:23 PM.
08-21-10, 07:28 PM
#2312
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I would not call this "speculation". "Fact finding" would be a more precise term.
I guess, we are discussing why it took the LFA so long to get to 300 KM/H at 50.6 seconds, which is basically slower than even an M5 or M6. Something seemed very wrong about this. Even in AutoCar lame comparison, with a 0 - 100 KM/H in 4.2 seconds, they got 0 - 150 mph in 18 seconds so something sounded out of whack about the 150 - 180 mph acceleration.
The final answer was in the article that they could not find a way to retract the spoiler at high speeds, which caused too much wind drag (0.3981, which is not unlike most SUVs) and thus increasing the weight of the car dramatically resulting in loss of acceleration. Great for stability and downforce, not so great for best acceleration.
I guess, we are discussing why it took the LFA so long to get to 300 KM/H at 50.6 seconds, which is basically slower than even an M5 or M6. Something seemed very wrong about this. Even in AutoCar lame comparison, with a 0 - 100 KM/H in 4.2 seconds, they got 0 - 150 mph in 18 seconds so something sounded out of whack about the 150 - 180 mph acceleration.
The final answer was in the article that they could not find a way to retract the spoiler at high speeds, which caused too much wind drag (0.3981, which is not unlike most SUVs) and thus increasing the weight of the car dramatically resulting in loss of acceleration. Great for stability and downforce, not so great for best acceleration.
Having ridden in the car over 150mph (I think we hit over 160 or so) I also find it hard to believe it took that long b/c believe me the car was an absolute rocket with Scott Pruett.
Also MT found the LFA was slower than the GT-R to 60 mph but it passed the GT-R at higher speeds. So I agree, something didn't happen for the LFA here which is a shame.
08-21-10, 07:30 PM
#2313
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Well, to put things in context, ZR-1 got 11.5 seconds so it was not that LFA was slower to 200 Km/h with 12.0 seconds than most other tests, it was mostly due to lack of a launch control system.
If there were a launch control system, I could easily see 0.3 - 0.5 seconds shaved off since LFA bogs off the line for a bit before blasting towards the redline.
If you look at tachometer videos, LFA's revs never drop below 7300 - 7400 rpm when shifting at 9300 rpm or so. Seems like the gearing is perfect.
Many cars do without tall spoilers. Ferrari 458 Italia is one example that has no spoiler at all so Lexus should allow the driver to retract the spoiler whenever he wants to.
I could easily see LFA hitting a 0 - 300 Km/h in 35 - 38 second region.
If there were a launch control system, I could easily see 0.3 - 0.5 seconds shaved off since LFA bogs off the line for a bit before blasting towards the redline.
If you look at tachometer videos, LFA's revs never drop below 7300 - 7400 rpm when shifting at 9300 rpm or so. Seems like the gearing is perfect.
Many cars do without tall spoilers. Ferrari 458 Italia is one example that has no spoiler at all so Lexus should allow the driver to retract the spoiler whenever he wants to.
I could easily see LFA hitting a 0 - 300 Km/h in 35 - 38 second region.
I wish Lexus would provide some sort of official statements on these "issues", at least to the buying customers.
Personally, I will probably never do 0-300KM in the LFA, and I still am on side with the concept of exceptional driving experience that is meant for the LFA . However, it would also be nice to have some bragging right that the car can hang with other exotics in any situation.
08-21-10, 07:34 PM
#2314
Lexus Test Driver
That is what I hope to have happen after our relentless pursuit for answers. Launch control will be at the top of the list, I would say. 
The product delivered to the customers is nothing, but absolute perfection so you guys get the best value for your money so that all the people around you see the huge grin that this awesome car will bring to your face.
The product delivered to the customers is nothing, but absolute perfection so you guys get the best value for your money so that all the people around you see the huge grin that this awesome car will bring to your face.
I agree that you should be able to retract the spoiler for drag races, or change its angle to minimize drag on high speed sections of race tracks.
I wish Lexus would provide some sort of official statements on these "issues", at least to the buying customers.
Personally, I will probably never do 0-300KM in the LFA, and I still am on side with the concept of exceptional driving experience that is meant for the LFA . However, it would also be nice to have some bragging right that the car can hang with other exotics in any situation.
I wish Lexus would provide some sort of official statements on these "issues", at least to the buying customers.
Personally, I will probably never do 0-300KM in the LFA, and I still am on side with the concept of exceptional driving experience that is meant for the LFA . However, it would also be nice to have some bragging right that the car can hang with other exotics in any situation.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 08-21-10 at 07:37 PM.
08-21-10, 07:41 PM
#2315
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I do want to say it doesn't really matter what the LFA does, the haters are gonna hate the car if it did 0-100 in 3 seconds or 10 seconds or 20 seconds
The LFA is maybe the most hated vehicles I've seen in my ten years on here and it isn't even officially sold yet.
Enthusiasts my ***!
The LFA is maybe the most hated vehicles I've seen in my ten years on here and it isn't even officially sold yet.
Enthusiasts my ***!
08-21-10, 07:52 PM
#2316
Lexus Test Driver
Maybe, somewhat true that haters will hate.
However, I have seen many very unlikely people become a fan of this car as well. All I can say is, if LFA puts all the right numbers down and has all the right ingredients, haters can deny all they want, but the facts are all there iron clad that could be slapped in anyone's face anytime that no one can dispute.
However, I have seen many very unlikely people become a fan of this car as well. All I can say is, if LFA puts all the right numbers down and has all the right ingredients, haters can deny all they want, but the facts are all there iron clad that could be slapped in anyone's face anytime that no one can dispute.
I do want to say it doesn't really matter what the LFA does, the haters are gonna hate the car if it did 0-100 in 3 seconds or 10 seconds or 20 seconds
The LFA is maybe the most hated vehicles I've seen in my ten years on here and it isn't even officially sold yet.
Enthusiasts my ***!
The LFA is maybe the most hated vehicles I've seen in my ten years on here and it isn't even officially sold yet.
Enthusiasts my ***!
08-21-10, 08:41 PM
#2317
Lexus Champion
Hater gon' hate lol. Oh well. I love the LFA, in red I think it looks the best so far (have to wait for gloss black) that side profile on the front cover of sport auto's mag was by far the best side profile I've seen IMO of the LFA. The wheels looked perfect. The only thing I could wish for were red brake calibers! I don't know about anyone else, but I like the matching theme with brakes, exterior color and interior color/stitching.
Anyway, I like the fact that they at least tested the car. When the production model hits, it'll be even better. If they were able to retract the spoiler I'd expect a better time for sure. Perhaps the guy forgot it's a high-revving engine and short shifted? Could be, seeing as how he's a porsche driver and most their cars are turbo'd, I'd guess he isn't accustomed to the LFA, I'm sure he isn't. He had how many other cars to test? Yeah and we seen the GT2 RS' times.
Anyway, I like the fact that they at least tested the car. When the production model hits, it'll be even better. If they were able to retract the spoiler I'd expect a better time for sure. Perhaps the guy forgot it's a high-revving engine and short shifted? Could be, seeing as how he's a porsche driver and most their cars are turbo'd, I'd guess he isn't accustomed to the LFA, I'm sure he isn't. He had how many other cars to test? Yeah and we seen the GT2 RS' times.
08-21-10, 08:52 PM
#2318
Lexus Test Driver
I don't know if it was Horst Von Saurma who did the top speed run, but I doubt that was the case.
Many exotics have high-revving engines so obviously they know very well where to shift for a particular car.
Many exotics have high-revving engines so obviously they know very well where to shift for a particular car.
Hater gon' hate lol. Oh well. I love the LFA, in red I think it looks the best so far (have to wait for gloss black) that side profile on the front cover of sport auto's mag was by far the best side profile I've seen IMO of the LFA. The wheels looked perfect. The only thing I could wish for were red brake calibers! I don't know about anyone else, but I like the matching theme with brakes, exterior color and interior color/stitching.
Anyway, I like the fact that they at least tested the car. When the production model hits, it'll be even better. If they were able to retract the spoiler I'd expect a better time for sure. Perhaps the guy forgot it's a high-revving engine and short shifted? Could be, seeing as how he's a porsche driver and most their cars are turbo'd, I'd guess he isn't accustomed to the LFA, I'm sure he isn't. He had how many other cars to test? Yeah and we seen the GT2 RS' times.
Anyway, I like the fact that they at least tested the car. When the production model hits, it'll be even better. If they were able to retract the spoiler I'd expect a better time for sure. Perhaps the guy forgot it's a high-revving engine and short shifted? Could be, seeing as how he's a porsche driver and most their cars are turbo'd, I'd guess he isn't accustomed to the LFA, I'm sure he isn't. He had how many other cars to test? Yeah and we seen the GT2 RS' times.
08-21-10, 10:14 PM
#2319
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Let me also add again that performance figures do not make the say all be all. Numbers cannot tell the entire story. Many SLOWER cars are more involving and more fun and more sports car like than faster ones. I am not making excuses for the LFA, just making that point.
08-21-10, 10:57 PM
#2320
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Lets just see what the verdict is once the final production car is out and about. I hope Lexus gets some type of feedback from these magazine tests/comparos.
08-21-10, 11:21 PM
#2321
Lexus Test Driver
I am sure everyone who is an admirer of the LFA acknowedges and holds that in the highest regard. It almost goes without saying.
That is why I never liked GTR and probably never will because it is too boring, too heavy and too numb. That is why I would pick a GT3 997 over a Turbo 997 any day of the week despite the turbo being faster in a straight line than the GT3.
However, the numbers these days have become the proving ground for any supercar. I am still very confident that the final product will have everything executed perfectly so that the owners feel they got the best deal for their $375,000 (or whatever it costs in their region).
The entire development of LFA according to the timeline has been trial and error so I would not be surprised if Lexus is doing this on purpose to get feedback from these publciations to determine which areas they still need to tweak without a care in the world about how the numbers look like or how it is ranked by these publications.
That is why I never liked GTR and probably never will because it is too boring, too heavy and too numb. That is why I would pick a GT3 997 over a Turbo 997 any day of the week despite the turbo being faster in a straight line than the GT3.
However, the numbers these days have become the proving ground for any supercar. I am still very confident that the final product will have everything executed perfectly so that the owners feel they got the best deal for their $375,000 (or whatever it costs in their region).
The entire development of LFA according to the timeline has been trial and error so I would not be surprised if Lexus is doing this on purpose to get feedback from these publciations to determine which areas they still need to tweak without a care in the world about how the numbers look like or how it is ranked by these publications.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 08-21-10 at 11:25 PM.
08-21-10, 11:22 PM
#2322
Lexus Champion
I think he's definitely better in Porsche's and his 'ring times should be taken with that in mind.
08-21-10, 11:42 PM
#2323
Lexus Test Driver
The impression I got from discussion with Lexus reps about the spoiler (and this is several months ago so may well be out of date) is that the ability to control the deployment of the spoiler while the car is in motion is still under consideration. My understanding of their explanation is that there is an interface to deploy/retract the spoiler but it is not designed to be used while the car is in motion. I did not ask whether it is possible to use that interface to prevent the spoiler from deploying automatically at speed.
At that time, I did suggest that spoiler deployment be controllable as it is in, for example, some Porsche models, so that we could prevent the spoiler from deploying during normal (i.e., street and highway) driving conditions. I will say I don't really care about retracting the spoiler to prevent drag issues at high speed... in fact, I'd probably question the prudence of not having the spoiler deploy at high speeds.
At that time, I did suggest that spoiler deployment be controllable as it is in, for example, some Porsche models, so that we could prevent the spoiler from deploying during normal (i.e., street and highway) driving conditions. I will say I don't really care about retracting the spoiler to prevent drag issues at high speed... in fact, I'd probably question the prudence of not having the spoiler deploy at high speeds.
08-22-10, 03:06 AM
#2324
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The drag coefficient is one thing, but what about the power output? It seems odd to me now that apparently the gearing can't be blamed, the spoiler is solely responsible for the awful top acceleration. I remember when Lexus started selling the IS 220 diesel in Europe, some magazines compared it to equally powerful German competitors and found out it was very slow for 177 claimed bhp. One of those magazines (Autogids) decided to put the car on the dyno meter at Bosch and the results were only 150 bhp and 40lbs/ft less than claimed. Might this be true for the (pre production) LFA too?
08-22-10, 06:23 AM
#2325
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Look at the asterisk for the max speed in 6th gear, so that means Lexus knew the LFA can go faster if only the spoiler can be adjusted for less drag. Another thing, I remember that the Nur package added a huge fixed spoiler to the LFA, so does that mean it could be worst in high speed run? I think we know what the answer is given the car was developed and tuned on this very track. Therefore a logical conclusion is the red LFA in this test is missing some ponies...
