rominl

iTrader: (4)

unfortunately like it or not, the gtr will continued to be brought up and compared, by both sides of the party and lfa is always in the picture. one can think it's irrelevant (i only think it's relevant on performance aspect and nothing else), but that doesn't throw the car out of the picture. as long as the day stands that gtr is up on the chart against other super high performance cars, it will continue to be in the picture. not just lexus, but bmw, audi, mb, porsche, you name it

LexFather

I don't have a problem talking about the GTR but we had Nissan fanbois dismissing the LFA for every reason shouting "GT-R blah blah blah" and we asked them to leave after it got old.

Why are we bringing up the GT-R only to discredit it seemingly? That means we are no better.

The cars are not competition, they are polar opposites and not sure why we have to always bring it up. (this is not directed at anyone fyi)

05RollaXRS

Speaking of "event", nothing shows LFA presence as an "event" especially the part where all the cameras follow a slow rolling LFA out of the dealership. Nothing shows a complete show stopper better than this video. Very few cars command this type of presence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP1tu...layer_embedded

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i totally agree, they are no competition, completely different market and audience.

but at the same time, in my eyes they are not completely separate, because both can perform well. it's the same reason why gtr is put side by side with cars like r8, gt3, turbo, etc... coz' when talking about performance, these cars should be in the same group.

05RollaXRS

Israeli review of the LFA in Hebrew (conducted at Goodwood race track, England):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Coe...eature=related

TRDFantasy

Thanks for the additional videos 05RollaXRS. The LFA is just so gorgeous in yellow and red.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

none of those brands sell ANYTHING like the LFA.

fair enough. but those cars are all hot variants of lesser models. granted the gtr was purpose built (not a variant) but it's still NOTHING like a V10-based rwd LFA.

should we also compare the GTR to the Bugatti Veyron? really? i mean they're both fast, both awd, with turbos, etc.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

lol, i did see a few videos and people talking about gtr and veyron and mb already had the slr. whether it has anything like the lfa, personally i think it's a subjective matter. i actually respect both sides

05RollaXRS

It was indeed an exclusive model. However, it still reuses a lot of things from the parts bin that were heavily modified. The VR38 engine in the GTR is a very highly modified variant of the VQ37 engine and the chassis GTR uses is a highly customized version of the FM global chassis that is used in just about every Nissan model.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

I just read the Car and Driver comparo article on the 599 HGTE vs. LFA last night.

Wow, it is shocking how much favorable comments the LFA got and the 599 HGTE is actually softer and less exciting then the LFA.

The LFA is appealing more and more to me now, but the Ferrari badge is very hard to ignore, especially to someone like me that never own a prancing horse before.

Also I don't like the clunky single clutch tranny on the LFA, don't think I am putting down the LFA's tranny, I don't like any single cluch tranny from any manufacturer.

The 458 got a dual clutch and is soooooo sexy looking.......ummm

Oh and comparing the GTR to the LFA is like comparing an Equus to a Phantom LWD. They are not only not in the same league, they don't even exist in the same world.

05RollaXRS

I don't think you are aware LFA's first transmission of choice was a Borg-Warner unit dual-clutch transmission, but all the lead testers and chief engineer felt it was exactly like an automatic and had no character and feel. The smoothness in it made it feel like a slushbox.

That is why they decided to go with a single-clutch transmission and the sound of the LFA through shifts is just EPIC! A dual-clutch sounds exactly like an automatic. No character, no feel and no sound.

Having said that, the clunkiness is because the prototype is an aging since November 2009 (with over 10,000 abusive miles) and beaten down earliest one. For one, in 1 year Lexus has improved the transmission by leaps and bounds (yellow prototype #14 has the latest version of it) and also the owners will not abusive their LFAs nearly as bad as many of these early prototypes had to sustain. Having every single mile where the car was pushed extremely hard is not what an owner in real life will put through.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Carbon fiber vs. steel, V10 vs. V6, RWD vs. 4WD, $80k vs. $400k.....enough said.

Is like comparing a Carrera GT to a 911 Carrera.

Anyone comparing them, is missing the point.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

Yes I am aware of all that.

I understand what they are trying to say, but I personally don't find the harsh shock from a hard shifting single clutch tranny is attractive in any way. I hated the BMW SMG, hated the Ferrari F1. I guess you can describe it as more exciting. But I prefer smooth shifting.

The hard shifting sounds from the single clutch 430 Scuderia does sounds exciting on the outside, it sounds like a mini explosion, I just heard a 16M at full throttle over the weekend. I just don't like feeling it inside the car. To me the dual clutch in the 458 don't make the car sounds any less exciting So even Ferrari and BMW agreed with me, since they both switched.

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

You going to hate me for saying this. But I secretly think all that talk of "the single clutch is more exciting" is all a bunch of marketing BS. I would say they didn't go with a dual clutch because of some technical reason, most likely of too much R&D cost. They already dumped too much money into the LFA, they want to draw the line somewhere, they have to decide either to produce the LFA as is, or not producing it at all. So they made up that excuse to make customer feels better.

The sinlge clutch design is the 1st generation of the automated manual tranny, the dual clutch is superior in everyways. Every manufacturers is phasing out the single clutch design as times goes by, BMW, Ferrari already did it, Lambo and Audi should be next. Porsche never went with the single clutch, probably think is too crappy, went straight to the dual clutch PDK. Porsche and Ferrari's main business is making exciting sports cars too you know

Saying the harshness/clunkyness of the single clutch is more exciting is like saying a man yelling rudely in your face is more exciting then calm smooth talking. That is true in a way, but I prefer a calm smooth talker

I don't believe everything people say, I make the judgment myself

BNR34

iTrader: (1)

And if you think about the LFA's development timeline, it all make sense.

The dual clutch tranny is definitely not the first transmission of choice for the LFA. The development of the LFA started 10 years ago, that was when single clutch tranny first appear (BMW had it in the last few years of the E36 M3 around 97'~98', Ferrari put it in the 355 in around 98'), the single clutch tranny was state of the art then, duel clutch didn't exist yet. Duel clutch came out around 05' from the VAG group, 1st in the Golf GTi, then the Veyron has it. Toyota kept going back and forth on whether to put the LFA into production, the longer they drag it out, the more outdated the car got. Other companies started using carbon fiber, so Toyota decided to switch it out to make it lighter. Then the single clutch got obsoleted, Toyota is fully aware of it, they looked into it and tested it, but probably decided it cost too much to switch it out, they don't even know if they want to produce the car, the LFA was to be the car to celebrate their F1's success, but they failed in F1. 2009 came by, they finally decided they would put the car into production, but don't want to spend any more money into it, just going to go with what they have.

Not only the tranny, the LFA's engine is outdated by today's standard too. Mainly it doesn't have direct injection. It's specific output is not that high in today's standard. It only makes 560 hp from 4.8L, the direct injected 4.5L V8 from the 458 makes 570 hp! The LFA's 4.8L V10 would make ~610 hp with direct injection. Again, the design of the engine was started 10 years ago, it got dragged out too long. Toyota really should have produced the car when it was ready in 2005. This LFA was state of the art at 2005, not so much in 2011.

I am just telling it like it is.

With all that being said, I do think the LFA is amazing. That engine scream is one of the best in a street car, 2nd only to the Carrera GT, I still can't decide which sounds better. The most impressive part is how clear and loud the engine scream is inside the car, I was amazed when I was riding in one at California speedway. Most Ferrari sounds very dull inside the car, unless it got a very loud aftermarket exhaust.

I would own a LFA if my budget and timing allows in the future. One huge benefit of the LFA is, I would imagine it's maintenance/up keep cost is much lower then a 458. The LFA's engine sounds much hotter too, the 458 has a much lower pitch due to it only have 8 cylinders. And as much as I want a Ferrari, I love the feel of a Lexus

I apologize for comparing the LFA to a 458, the LFA is really in the same league as the 599, Carrera GT.....etc. But those Europeans are way too high for me to consider, so I compare it to the more reasonable and very hot 458.