Lexus LFA- Discussion, Pictures & News (new colors gloss black, blue, yellow)
10-31-10, 08:28 PM
#3091
Lexus Test Driver
OK, I am going to try and get the magazine hopefully tommorow. I wish I had known a bit earlier, I would have gone down the closest bookstore today.
Is the LFA re-tested for this comparo or they quoted the old 11.8 seconds 1/4 mile?? Can someone please tell if it is the aging, old white European prototype (much like in the video) or the newer red European prototype??
The engine was ACTUALLY built by Yamaha. Lexus originally designed the architecture of the engine. Not just tuned by Yamaha acoustics engineering.
Is the LFA re-tested for this comparo or they quoted the old 11.8 seconds 1/4 mile?? Can someone please tell if it is the aging, old white European prototype (much like in the video) or the newer red European prototype??
The engine was ACTUALLY built by Yamaha. Lexus originally designed the architecture of the engine. Not just tuned by Yamaha acoustics engineering.
I don't think the engine was 'built' by Yamaha. Lexus/Toyota did the building, tuning was done by them, acoustics were done by them. There's no articles that I've read that says Yamaha built the engine, in fact it says it's hand built by 'Lexus Works' right on the engine cover.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 10-31-10 at 08:32 PM.
10-31-10, 10:08 PM
#3093
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Interesting... I always thought Lexus builds all Yamaha-tuned engines themselves. Where did you read about the LFA engine being actually built by Yamaha? Thanks in advance for the pointer.
10-31-10, 10:21 PM
#3094
Lexus Champion
Yeah, Lexus designed and built the engine, not Yamaha, Yamaha tuned the engine and it's sound. They did the same with the IS-F's engine. It's not a Yamaha engine, it's a Toyota/Lexus engine. Yamaha is partly owned by Toyota anyway so it doesn't make much a difference.
this was said on Lexus Europe LFA press release; "The engine was developed in conjunction with Yamaha through the established collaborative partnership between Toyota Motor Corporation and the Japanese specialist engineering company."
this was said on Lexus Europe LFA press release; "The engine was developed in conjunction with Yamaha through the established collaborative partnership between Toyota Motor Corporation and the Japanese specialist engineering company."
10-31-10, 11:03 PM
#3095
Lexus Test Driver
IS-F engine is a completely different case, which was based off the already existing 4.6 liter V8 and was tuned by Yamaha and also some internals modified including a higher flowing head. The relationship was much like how the 2JZ-GTE and 2JZ-GE engines were developed.
LFA engine is a completely different story since it is based off nothing and also follows a different philosophy of very short-stroked, small cylindrical capacity (480 cc) and fast piston speed engine, which is extremely high-revving and Lexus/Toyota traditionally has commissioned Yamaha to build its high revving engines such as, BEAMS 3S-GE with dual-VVT-i and 2ZZ-GE with VVTL-i because of their expertise in building motorcycle engines that rev up to 16,000 rpm (Yamaha R1). That is what their bread and butter is so no one better to do it. Both of these engines were fully built by Yamaha simply because Toyota realizes the decades of experience Yamaha has building these types of engines.
That torque curve of atleast 90% of peak torque available even at 9500 rpm is only something Yamaha can pull off. It is incredibly difficult to achieve such a high flow head at such high engine speeds when most engines lose steam past 6000 rpm. It basically has to flow better than Niagara Falls to achieve that. Plus, the centrifugal forces at those engine speeds are so extreme that it is very difficult to make an engine that can handle those reliably. This is where the expertise of Yamaha comes in.
For further confirmation, if you want to, I can take a picture of my lowly 2ZZ engine block since on the side of the block it is stamped "Yamaha motor co." on my 2ZZ-GE.
LFA engine is a completely different story since it is based off nothing and also follows a different philosophy of very short-stroked, small cylindrical capacity (480 cc) and fast piston speed engine, which is extremely high-revving and Lexus/Toyota traditionally has commissioned Yamaha to build its high revving engines such as, BEAMS 3S-GE with dual-VVT-i and 2ZZ-GE with VVTL-i because of their expertise in building motorcycle engines that rev up to 16,000 rpm (Yamaha R1). That is what their bread and butter is so no one better to do it. Both of these engines were fully built by Yamaha simply because Toyota realizes the decades of experience Yamaha has building these types of engines.
That torque curve of atleast 90% of peak torque available even at 9500 rpm is only something Yamaha can pull off. It is incredibly difficult to achieve such a high flow head at such high engine speeds when most engines lose steam past 6000 rpm. It basically has to flow better than Niagara Falls to achieve that. Plus, the centrifugal forces at those engine speeds are so extreme that it is very difficult to make an engine that can handle those reliably. This is where the expertise of Yamaha comes in.
For further confirmation, if you want to, I can take a picture of my lowly 2ZZ engine block since on the side of the block it is stamped "Yamaha motor co." on my 2ZZ-GE.
Yeah, Lexus designed and built the engine, not Yamaha, Yamaha tuned the engine and it's sound. They did the same with the IS-F's engine. It's not a Yamaha engine, it's a Toyota/Lexus engine. Yamaha is partly owned by Toyota anyway so it doesn't make much a difference.
this was said on Lexus Europe LFA press release; "The engine was developed in conjunction with Yamaha through the established collaborative partnership between Toyota Motor Corporation and the Japanese specialist engineering company."
this was said on Lexus Europe LFA press release; "The engine was developed in conjunction with Yamaha through the established collaborative partnership between Toyota Motor Corporation and the Japanese specialist engineering company."
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 11-01-10 at 12:02 AM.
11-01-10, 07:58 AM
#3096
Lexus Test Driver
Article now posted online. I made a new thread to celebrate this awesome victory.
LFA also out-accelerated the 599 GTB HGTE using launch control. Ain't that nice?? 11.7 secs@125 mph at 1800 meters above sea level shows just how quick LFA is to the 1/4 mile with launch control
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lex...g-package.html
LFA also out-accelerated the 599 GTB HGTE using launch control. Ain't that nice?? 11.7 secs@125 mph at 1800 meters above sea level shows just how quick LFA is to the 1/4 mile with launch control
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/lex...g-package.html
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 11-01-10 at 08:39 AM.
11-01-10, 01:43 PM
#3097
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I am quite sure Yamaha is not building the LFA engine. They will merely assist with building the engine. The engine will be built by the LFA Motor Works team of craftsman at the Motomachi plant in Toyota City, Japan. This is a Toyota plant, and it will have a special area of the plant where the LFA engine will be built. According to Lexus documents, it is my understanding that the LFA Motor Works craftsmen are the best engine makers and builders from Toyota. There may be one or two Yamaha personnel there, but that does not mean they are actually building the engine. Also according to what I know, some of Toyota's Formula 1 engine people are helping out as well.
Yamaha may have experience building high-revving motorcycle race engines, but they do not have a lot of experience building very high-revving V10 engines. Thanks to Formula 1, Toyota has lots of experience with that.
Also, the LFA engine is not stamped with "Yamaha Motor Co." but instead each completed LFA engine will have the "built by LFA Motor Works" plaque.
Yamaha may have experience building high-revving motorcycle race engines, but they do not have a lot of experience building very high-revving V10 engines. Thanks to Formula 1, Toyota has lots of experience with that.
Also, the LFA engine is not stamped with "Yamaha Motor Co." but instead each completed LFA engine will have the "built by LFA Motor Works" plaque.
11-01-10, 02:34 PM
#3098
Lexus Test Driver
You are talking more about the assembly/manufacturing process. That could very well be a Lexus factory thing with Yamaha having no part in it.
Having said that, even if it is a V10 Yamaha has the expertise of designing and building high-revving engines that must have a design that allows it to flow properly at very high rpms, designing the light internals, designing the frictionless surfaces to allow free revving and also handling the centrifugal forces that 9500 rpm bring that Lexus has little or no knowledge about. Ultimately, this is a science as much as it is engineering. Yamaha has such a wealth of experience in these areas so it is easy to see why Yamaha was made incharge of these.
I firmly believe all of these components were designed and developed by Yamaha. Although, Lexus is directly involved in execution of it and also ofcourse the main financier of it, but ultimately Yamaha is the mastermind behind the engine.
Having said that, even if it is a V10 Yamaha has the expertise of designing and building high-revving engines that must have a design that allows it to flow properly at very high rpms, designing the light internals, designing the frictionless surfaces to allow free revving and also handling the centrifugal forces that 9500 rpm bring that Lexus has little or no knowledge about. Ultimately, this is a science as much as it is engineering. Yamaha has such a wealth of experience in these areas so it is easy to see why Yamaha was made incharge of these.
I firmly believe all of these components were designed and developed by Yamaha. Although, Lexus is directly involved in execution of it and also ofcourse the main financier of it, but ultimately Yamaha is the mastermind behind the engine.
I am quite sure Yamaha is not building the LFA engine. They will merely assist with building the engine. The engine will be built by the LFA Motor Works team of craftsman at the Motomachi plant in Toyota City, Japan. This is a Toyota plant, and it will have a special area of the plant where the LFA engine will be built. According to Lexus documents, it is my understanding that the LFA Motor Works craftsmen are the best engine makers and builders from Toyota. There may be one or two Yamaha personnel there, but that does not mean they are actually building the engine. Also according to what I know, some of Toyota's Formula 1 engine people are helping out as well.
Yamaha may have experience building high-revving motorcycle race engines, but they do not have a lot of experience building very high-revving V10 engines. Thanks to Formula 1, Toyota has lots of experience with that.
Also, the LFA engine is not stamped with "Yamaha Motor Co." but instead each completed LFA engine will have the "built by LFA Motor Works" plaque.
Yamaha may have experience building high-revving motorcycle race engines, but they do not have a lot of experience building very high-revving V10 engines. Thanks to Formula 1, Toyota has lots of experience with that.
Also, the LFA engine is not stamped with "Yamaha Motor Co." but instead each completed LFA engine will have the "built by LFA Motor Works" plaque.
11-01-10, 03:07 PM
#3099
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Again, I don't see how Yamaha is the "mastermind" behind this engine. No Lexus documents out there point to this.
Toyota came up with the idea of using a V10. Toyota, not Yamaha came up with some of the fundamental design decisions on the engine, such as using a 72 degree bank angle.
Toyota spent many years developing and perfecting their V10 F1 engine. Some of the design decisions on the LFA V10 are directly from Toyota's F1 expertise.
Yamaha definitely contributed with some of the valve and head work on the engine, and possibly other aspects and areas as well. Like the IS-F engine however, Yamaha merely collaborated with Toyota and helped them with the engine. They did not "mastermind" the engine.
The diamond-like carbon coating that some of the internals in the LFA V10 have is a technology lifted directly from Toyota's F1 V10, for example. This is not something Yamaha designed, but something Toyota already had expertise in from F1.
Toyota learned a huge amount about engines while participating in F1 and making their F1 V10, and much of that knowledge was applied directly to the LFA's V10.
The engine block I am very sure is a totally Toyota design. I am aware that Yamaha helped a lot with the individual throttle bodies on the engine, and of course the acoustic tuning of the engine.
Toyota came up with the idea of using a V10. Toyota, not Yamaha came up with some of the fundamental design decisions on the engine, such as using a 72 degree bank angle.
Toyota spent many years developing and perfecting their V10 F1 engine. Some of the design decisions on the LFA V10 are directly from Toyota's F1 expertise.
Yamaha definitely contributed with some of the valve and head work on the engine, and possibly other aspects and areas as well. Like the IS-F engine however, Yamaha merely collaborated with Toyota and helped them with the engine. They did not "mastermind" the engine.
The diamond-like carbon coating that some of the internals in the LFA V10 have is a technology lifted directly from Toyota's F1 V10, for example. This is not something Yamaha designed, but something Toyota already had expertise in from F1.
Toyota learned a huge amount about engines while participating in F1 and making their F1 V10, and much of that knowledge was applied directly to the LFA's V10.
The engine block I am very sure is a totally Toyota design. I am aware that Yamaha helped a lot with the individual throttle bodies on the engine, and of course the acoustic tuning of the engine.
11-01-10, 03:09 PM
#3101
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11-01-10, 03:28 PM
#3102
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The first LFA engine desgins were on the table around January 2002...
By December 2002, they had cranked the 1st LFA Motor.. Love their Hats!!!
Joe Z
By December 2002, they had cranked the 1st LFA Motor.. Love their Hats!!!
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 11-01-10 at 03:32 PM.
11-01-10, 04:59 PM
#3104
Lexus Champion
That coincided with their decision to enter F1. Their first F1 car was in 2002. Actually they decided to enter F1 that season, but were already developing F1 technology as far back as 2000 after their GT-One LeMans project was stopped.
11-01-10, 05:08 PM
#3105
Lexus Test Driver