Lexus LFA- Discussion, Pictures & News (new colors gloss black, blue, yellow)
12-07-09, 12:05 PM
#1052
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You're right that the 7:30 time (in traffic) was Akira's personal best lap, and that someone else could've done better than him, but I just don't see why he would need to estimate 7:23 if another driver in the LFA team has already done better than 7:20 in the production car.
Last edited by Mister Two; 12-07-09 at 12:21 PM.
12-07-09, 12:21 PM
#1054
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Do you think the chief test driver would not have known about the time if the production LFA has indeed lapped under 7:20? If the 7:20 time is true then why would the chief test driver need to "estimate" 7:23? We've all seen the video of the race car lapping the 'Ring from Gazoo's official website and even with lots of blocking traffic the race car lapped the 'Ring in well under 7:20.The help of the downforce provided by the race car's aero package might be much greater than you think. With such different aerodynamics they are effectively two completely different cars. You simply cannot compare the production car to the race car despite the same drivetrain.
? Toyota has NEVER done that with any product. Toyota has always historically been coy, and Toyota OFTEN has employed misdirection to keep the competition on their toes. The test driver's estimate could have been purely abritrary, or simply some subtle misdirection. The test driver may not actually know what the LFA's potential is when pushed to the max. Although he is the "chief test driver", he is not the top test driver that participated in the LFA project. That honor goes to Toyota Master test driver Hirose Naruse.
Chief test driver Lida personally claims a best lap of 7:30. His 7:23 estimate could easily be an estimate that he *personally* feels he could achieve. The Edmunds article never states either lap time is the BEST lap time Toyota has achieved OVERALL with the LFA.
Master test driver Naruse could have easily achieved a better lap time than 7:30 or 7:23.
Fact is, the chief test driver's quoted claim and the Chief engineer's quoted claim do not necessarily cancel each other out or contradict with one another.
No, they are NOT two different cars. You obviously have very little understanding of the LFA race cars. They are mechanically, the SAME as the production LFA. Only the body is different.
It sounds like you did not read what I said. No matter how much of an improvement in downforce the race car body gives, it STILL limits the car's top speed, that is a FACT. The huge rear wing on the car greatly increases drag, that is a FACT. Greater downforce almost always comes at the cost of top speed or straight-line speed. The race car body does not have as many sharp edges as the production body. The sharp edges on the production body help minimize drag at high speeds.
I can perfectly apply my point to another (two) supercars. The Ferrari Enzo and Maserati MC12; both are the SAME car mechanically, underneath each of their bodies. The difference is the bodies. The MC12 has a MUCH different body than the Enzo, while the race LF-As and production LFA bodies are more similar.
Despite this big difference in the bodies, and therefore aerodynamics and downforce, the MC12 and Enzo have achieved virtually the SAME lap times on the Nurburgring.
You also fail to consider the race LFAs were prototype cars, and what they learned at this year's race as well as last year's race, they have applied to the production car. Plus, with LFA production still a year away, they will no doubt do some fine tuning and minor improvements to the car.
12-07-09, 12:37 PM
#1055
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Do you think Toyota is going to spoon-feed you everything about the LFA and it's capabilities ? Toyota has NEVER done that with any product. Toyota has always historically been coy, and Toyota OFTEN has employed misdirection to keep the competition on their toes.
The test driver's estimate could have been purely abritrary, or simply some subtle misdirection. The test driver may not actually know what the LFA's potential is when pushed to the max. Although he is the "chief test driver", he is not the top test driver that participated in the LFA project. That honor goes to Toyota Master test driver Hirose Naruse.
Chief test driver Lida personally claims a best lap of 7:30. His 7:23 estimate could easily be an estimate that he *personally* feels he could achieve. The Edmunds article never states either lap time is the BEST lap time Toyota has achieved OVERALL with the LFA.
Master test driver Naruse could have easily achieved a better lap time than 7:30 or 7:23.
Fact is, the chief test driver's quoted claim and the Chief engineer's quoted claim do not necessarily cancel each other out or contradict with one another.
No, they are NOT two different cars. You obviously have very little understanding of the LFA race cars. They are mechanically, the SAME as the production LFA. Only the body is different.
It sounds like you did not read what I said. No matter how much of an improvement in downforce the race car body gives, it STILL limits the car's top speed, that is a FACT. The huge rear wing on the car greatly increases drag, that is a FACT. Greater downforce almost always comes at the cost of top speed or straight-line speed. The race car body does not have as many sharp edges as the production body. The sharp edges on the production body help minimize drag at high speeds.
I can perfectly apply my point to another (two) supercars. The Ferrari Enzo and Maserati MC12; both are the SAME car mechanically, underneath each of their bodies. The difference is the bodies. The MC12 has a MUCH different body than the Enzo, while the race LF-As and production LFA bodies are more similar.
Despite this big difference in the bodies, and therefore aerodynamics and downforce, the MC12 and Enzo have achieved virtually the SAME lap times on the Nurburgring.
? Toyota has NEVER done that with any product. Toyota has always historically been coy, and Toyota OFTEN has employed misdirection to keep the competition on their toes. The test driver's estimate could have been purely abritrary, or simply some subtle misdirection. The test driver may not actually know what the LFA's potential is when pushed to the max. Although he is the "chief test driver", he is not the top test driver that participated in the LFA project. That honor goes to Toyota Master test driver Hirose Naruse.
Chief test driver Lida personally claims a best lap of 7:30. His 7:23 estimate could easily be an estimate that he *personally* feels he could achieve. The Edmunds article never states either lap time is the BEST lap time Toyota has achieved OVERALL with the LFA.
Master test driver Naruse could have easily achieved a better lap time than 7:30 or 7:23.
Fact is, the chief test driver's quoted claim and the Chief engineer's quoted claim do not necessarily cancel each other out or contradict with one another.
No, they are NOT two different cars. You obviously have very little understanding of the LFA race cars. They are mechanically, the SAME as the production LFA. Only the body is different.
It sounds like you did not read what I said. No matter how much of an improvement in downforce the race car body gives, it STILL limits the car's top speed, that is a FACT. The huge rear wing on the car greatly increases drag, that is a FACT. Greater downforce almost always comes at the cost of top speed or straight-line speed. The race car body does not have as many sharp edges as the production body. The sharp edges on the production body help minimize drag at high speeds.
I can perfectly apply my point to another (two) supercars. The Ferrari Enzo and Maserati MC12; both are the SAME car mechanically, underneath each of their bodies. The difference is the bodies. The MC12 has a MUCH different body than the Enzo, while the race LF-As and production LFA bodies are more similar.
Despite this big difference in the bodies, and therefore aerodynamics and downforce, the MC12 and Enzo have achieved virtually the SAME lap times on the Nurburgring.
Naruse was quoted under the context of the LFA's "racetrack connection", while Lida was clearly referring to the production car. Again, why estimate when someone else in the LFA team has already done better, which he must've known? Unless of course, like you said, Lida lied to the media to conceal LFA's true potential.
Either way explains the conflicts in the two reports. I just personally prefer to believe that they were both being honest.
You also fail to consider the race LFAs were prototype cars, and what they learned at this year's race as well as last year's race, they have applied to the production car. Plus, with LFA production still a year away, they will no doubt do some fine tuning and minor improvements to the car.
Last edited by Mister Two; 12-07-09 at 12:41 PM.
12-07-09, 12:43 PM
#1056
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I don't see how the MC12 and the Enzo's coincidentally same lap times help explain anything. Fact is that cars with different aero designs will perform differently.
Naruse was quoted under the context of the LFA's "racetrack connection", while Lida was clearly referring to the production car. Again, why estimate when someone else in the LFA team has already done better, which he must've known? Unless of course, like you said, Lida lied to the media to conceal LFA's true potential.
Either way explains the conflicts in the two reports. I just personally prefer to believe that they were both being honest.
Naruse was quoted under the context of the LFA's "racetrack connection", while Lida was clearly referring to the production car. Again, why estimate when someone else in the LFA team has already done better, which he must've known? Unless of course, like you said, Lida lied to the media to conceal LFA's true potential.
Either way explains the conflicts in the two reports. I just personally prefer to believe that they were both being honest.
Thanks for proving my point
. Different aero designs do perform differently. Higher downforce cars are better in corners, but worse in straight sections than lower downforce cars.
Tanahashi was quoted, not Naruse. Of course it would be quoted under the context of "race track connection", since if you actually read the entire article, they mention the production LFA was debuted AT the Nurburgring! What other possible context could they have quoted him under
?I'm seriously done with this. Totally pointless to argue with those who disagree about the LFA's potential, until we see lap times from the final production car in a year's time.
Last edited by TRDFantasy; 12-07-09 at 12:47 PM.
12-07-09, 12:50 PM
#1057
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Tanahashi was quoted, not Naruse. Of course it would be quoted under the context of "race track connection", since if you actually read the entire article, they mention the production LFA was debuted AT the Nurburgring! What other possible context could they have quoted him under ?
?
12-09-09, 12:33 PM
#1058
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Lexus LFA driven by Top Gear's Stig
According to Lexus Europe:
http://twitter.com/Lexus_Europe
http://twitter.com/LexusPR
Originally Posted by Lexus Europe
Deepest darkest Surrey again tomorrow to meet somebody whose name rhymes with Twig... with LFA in tow.... 8:39 AM Dec 8th from UberTwitter
Originally Posted by LexusPR
Oh.. oh.. oh.. I've been tipped off what time The Stig got in the Lexus LFA... but can't tell anyone ! about 4 hours ago from TweetDeck
@Andy_Francis The Lexus LFA might (I did not say is) be slower around Top Gear test track than the R500, but the driver will be dry :-) about 2 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to Andy_Francis
@Andy_Francis The Lexus LFA might (I did not say is) be slower around Top Gear test track than the R500, but the driver will be dry :-) about 2 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to Andy_Francis
12-09-09, 12:43 PM
#1059
Lexus Connoisseur
This is the same LFA I drove in Miami! 
Message: LFA waiting impatiently in the wet for The Stig.
http://tweetphoto.com/6124823
Message: LFA waiting impatiently in the wet for The Stig.
http://tweetphoto.com/6124823
12-09-09, 12:45 PM
#1060
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The Stig in the LFA!!! Can't wait to see its Enzo beating time around the Top Gear track.
Still can't understand why Lexus wants to keep their 'Ring time so secretive though. Nissan, GM and Chrysler all gained a lot of respect by publishing their official 'Ring times. Why not Lexus? It can't be bad for marketing. If the LFA has really done better than 7:20 like the chief engineer said, what's Lexus waiting for? Hide the record in the closet until some other major manufacturer comes out with a supercar that does even better, and then claim to be second?
Edit:In the wet? That totally blows. Way to ruin it.
Still can't understand why Lexus wants to keep their 'Ring time so secretive though. Nissan, GM and Chrysler all gained a lot of respect by publishing their official 'Ring times. Why not Lexus? It can't be bad for marketing. If the LFA has really done better than 7:20 like the chief engineer said, what's Lexus waiting for? Hide the record in the closet until some other major manufacturer comes out with a supercar that does even better, and then claim to be second?
Edit:In the wet? That totally blows. Way to ruin it.
Last edited by Mister Two; 12-09-09 at 01:08 PM.
12-09-09, 12:55 PM
#1061
Lexus Connoisseur
12-09-09, 01:02 PM
#1062
Just read on twitter The LF-A is at the top gear track? Im disappointed its going to be a wet lap though...
http://twitter.com/Lexus_Europe
wow im hella late to tell people of this news 
http://twitter.com/Lexus_Europe
LFA waiting impatiently in the wet for The Stig. http://tweetphoto.com/6124823
Last edited by ExTrEmE99; 12-09-09 at 01:08 PM.
12-09-09, 01:33 PM
#1064
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rofl.... sorry for that
p.s. @ TRD, Mister Two etc etc... the race cars were also limited to 8500 rpm IIRC.
12-09-09, 01:36 PM
#1065
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I doubt that they'll give the Stig a crippled LFA.
