bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

everyone has their biases.

gengar

We don't need to rehash the LFA lease details in this thread, given that we already have a long dead horse thread on the topic filled with pedantic and silly posts here:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/car...or-the-us.html

The Autocar article certainly doesn't bring anything new that wasn't discussed in that thread, and falls victim to many of the same deficiencies and inaccuracies contained in posts there.


No question about that. Of course everyone has biases, but biases can still be more or less reasonable and Top Gear's with regard to Lexus are mostly unreasonable. They (meaning Top Gear's TV show and especially Clarkson, not the magazine) even blasted the IS-F while it got high praise in other British publications, including receiving the highest rating possible from EVO mag and being a finalist for CAR's Performance Car of the Year award. Even Top Gear magazine's review lauded the car's positives relative to competitors. Not surprisingly, EVO - both in Chris Harris' video and in their print magazine review - took the time to take shots at Clarkson for his absurd LFA criticisms, truly demonstrating how ridiculous they are viewed even among the British press.

LexFather

Since it has been thrown out there I also heard that over 1,000 serious/qualified buyers were lined up. As S2000toIS stated though, Lexus is not jumping the gun until those checks clear for the 500

TRDFantasy

As gengar mentioned, most other British auto publications disagreed with Top Gear, and Chris Harris from EVO indirectly took a shot at Clarkson and the Top Gear gang for their absolutely silly "GT-R" comparison to the LFA.

The Top Gear TV show is biased, even when compared to other British auto publications.

Most of us are in no position to criticize the LFA's price. Top Gear is in no position to criticize the LFA's price. Just because they can "afford" an LFA, Toyota probably wouldn't sell one to them anyways. Top Gear is in no position to say anything based on all the free passes on price they have given over the years to random obscure supercars or exotics that you've never heard of, vehicles coming from companies that have no history or experience, and often vehicles that are using shared parts from other automakers.

TommyJames

I'd probably agree with you if the LFA was grouped with the other cars built by Lexus, but this is not. We've been hearing all along that these cars are hand built, that this is the most tested car ever, that you call a special number that this car is completely outside of the normal Lexus channels. I doubt anyone associated with the current crisis at Toyota is pulled from the LFA program on any level. I can't even imagine the issue having any impact on LFA buyers one way or another. I'd question someone's seriousness about the LFA if they were suddenly backing out of their LFA interest because of what's happening with Toyota. I for one don't believe that there ever was a real problem with the car's sudden acceleration as I immediately became suspicious and now little by little Toyota is disproving some of the claims out there. I remember the Audi crisis all too well.

I believe Lexus has boxed themselves into a corner on the LFA. I also have no doubt that they had 1,000+ serious inquiries. Welcome to the exotic market where EVERYTHING has 1000+ "serious" inquiries. Converting those inquiries into sales is a completely different matter. This is why the other exotic brands put out so little printed material. It's just too expensive to put out those materials and still sell cars. Some dealerships even "qualify" you for a brochure!

As for the comments about Top Gear not giving the car a fair shake, what just about every article says, somewhere in veiled comments is that they think it's overpriced as they try and walk the fine line between keeping a relationship with Lexus and maintaing their own credibility. I think most agree it's a hell of a car. We read that everywhere right? The statement is much harder to say when you add the price tag. We can argue all day about its performance and that misses the point of the argument which is really simple. Is it price/value competitive? That's a value judgement that can only be proven by sales so I'm just waiting to see what really happens.

The closest business model to the LFA is the SLR and in the end Mercedes was disappointed by their own sales and it too was a hell of a performer. I actually think many of the LFAs will end up in the hands of dealership owners who will use the car as a show room draw. Time will tell. Roughly 100 days to go before all buyers should be notified according to their own press. By tax day, to be on track, 50 people should be notified. Of that you'd think we'd see posts directly or indirectly somewhere from at least five or more.

gengar

Notably, the EVO magazine article was much more direct in taking a shot at Top Gear. The only thing they didn't do was reference Clarkson explicitly by name.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i am sorry, but again, everyone has the right to criticize price or anything about the lfa (or any other cars for that matter), as long as they are being constructive. simple as that. you have every right to disagree, but if you continue to not able to accept that, do not read.

everyone can easily come up with tons of examples where people can criticize something but they are not able to become / own that.

you can call top gear biased all day long (i am not saying i don't agree with you), but likely wise a lot can say you are way biased against toyota (whether you agree or not), period. everyone has a bias, and that's what makes everyone different. you want your voice to be heard, then you need to learn how to listen to others

Mister Two

Would you care to tell me why Lexus has stopped accepting new applications for the LFA, according to our member anajri, who received a letter directly from Lexus Japan?
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/5324069-post59.html

Why would they want to lie about this, if these 1100 applications are mere serious "inquiries" as you say? Obviously these 1100 applications are much more serious than just serious inquiries, and serious enough that Lexus feels confident to declare that they've had enough clientele pool to choose the owners from, to the point that no new applications are to be accepted.

Instead of sitting here and speculating all day long, if you don't mind, please call Lexus USA to help verify for us the truthfulness of that claim by asking to get on the LFA waiting list. If they do accept your request, then they were indeed lying in that letter to anajri; otherwise by actively denying new applications they prove that they do really have enough people on the list already. Simple as that. I'm living nowhere near the exotic car lifestyle to be able to call them with a straight face, but I'm sure you can. So please do it for us and for your own curiousity. Thanks.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Wow, putting the cards on the table. I agree with this and expecting to hear back from TommyJames with official word from a call to Lexus Headquarters. Let's quit the assumptions and go straight to the source.

TRDFantasy

+1, I agree.

Enough with the speculation and assumptions and baseless criticism.

Let's get some facts here.

TRDFantasy

Fair enough.

IMHO and with all due respect,

Most of the LFA's price criticism has NOT been constructive. That is the point.

Also I agree with what you say, BUT likewise if people are criticizing the LFA or it's price unreasonably or without being constructive, then those people should be prepared to be criticized for their statements.

Yes, everyone has a bias, but let's be serious here, this is a Lexus forum, not a Lambo or Ferrari, or GT-R forum.

Obviously some of us here are not the only ones who disagree with Top Gear. As pointed out, fellow British auto publication EVO also disagree with Top Gear's criticism of the price.

TommyJames

The reason I haven't gone to Lexus is that I think these are marketing statements and not necessarily statements of fact with regard to actual sales. This isn't unique to Lexus either. 'Hyped demand' marketing has been tried by just about every exotic company at one point or another. As I've said before, I'm content to wait and see given that we're in that window of notification for all 500 cars and 150 US cars, of which about 22 US buyers should now have been contacted and have placed their orders according to Lexus own announcement that "selected" qualified buyers would be notified between March and June. Sometime around June 30 we should see a report that all LFAs are sold, right? That's not a very long way away. Also if Lexus is building 20 a month, 500 cars, 150 in the US, US#22 would be at the end of the third month or early in the fourth month of production. By now those same buyers waiting to get notified should be getting a little annoyed as they wait to find out where they are. Those notified in June are going to be waiting a heck of a long time to get their car. If I have it right, they wouldn't see their cars until late 2012. By the time they have to plunk down their first big lease payment, the first production cars will be coming off their lease and will be hitting the market and who knows at what value, while those June notified customers then have to wait until late 2014 to do anything with their cars.

By 2014 there will be a lot of new exotics in the market with some even more impressive numbers. Just because there are only 150 in the US, it's still anyone's guess as to demand a resale.

S2000toIS350

Hi Tommy,

My understanding from the session in Miami is that where you end up in the build cycle will depend on what you order (not your notification date). Folks who want the Miami pastel color cars should expect to wait. They did not know if the factory would try to build all the cars ordered in color x and then move on to color y cars.

I agree, folks at the end of the build cycle will not be able to find a new home for their cars till the end of 2014.

Yes, I would have preferred to have heard about my allocation but that isn't the case. The term externality is used here. The 8 million recalled cars and fallout have resulted in a shift in priority. So it goes. Story time: I ordered my first plasma tv in August 2001. I was notified that my order was held up in later September. I emailed the distributor to see what was up. I learned that due to the 911 attacks the US Army needed these to set up command centers. There was no corporate conspiracy against the consumer, just a situation to deal with.

My contact at Lexus let me know he has his plan and just needs sign off. It will happen and we will live happily ever after.

Again, the most impressive numbers is not the biggest deal for this car. The new Mclaren for example will be a monster by the numbers. But where can I take it for service and will Mclaren be in the car business in 2015 and how will they be on warrantee issues?

TommyJames

What you are saying about paint and options makes sense as there are similar issues at Lamborghini. It's not a huge delay to select specific options, but it does shift the cars around a bit.

I still suspect the "delay" is related to customer issues more than anything, but time will tell. I am hearing buzz about the Mclaren already. I do know it is getting respect from the other MFGs and exotic owner are starting to talk about it. I've not heard anything about demand yet, but it is generating talk.

TRDFantasy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xenQqcAsXNY

Awesome sound!