TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

"Baiting for arguments?" Sheesh... One can barely voice one's opinion these days.

Comparing a Vette to a Ferrari...? Nuff said.

xioix

When comparing performance per $$$ the Z06 and ZR1 is killing the competition same with the GT-R

TRDFantasy

Comparing a 458 to the LFA? Nuff said

The 458 has an aluminum space-frame, and an extremely thin aluminum alloy body shell; 0.04 inches (or 0.1 cm) thin in many areas of the body shell. That's literally paper thin. I bet a sharp object could easily pierce through the exterior sheet metal, given that it's this thin in many areas.

The LFA has a completely carbon fiber frame, with only the front and rear aluminum subframes being the only parts of the car that are not carbon fiber. The LFA also has a completely carbon fiber outer shell/exterior skin.

The funny thing is, the Corvette ZR-1 has an aluminum frame, just like the 458. So tell me, what makes the 458 SO special? Just because it's a Ferrari? Just because it's Italian? Does the 458 get a free pass from criticism because of these two reasons?

The ZR-1 also has a few exterior pieces made out of carbon fiber, and carbon ceramic brakes.

How about the magnetorheological shock absorbers on the 458. Can you guess where that technology came from? I'll give you a hint; Ferrari didn't come up with it, nor did any other Italian company. Here's another big hint; the ZR-1 uses the same sort of magnetorheological shock absorbers as the 458.

Just as you find my ZR-1 to 458 comparison ridiculous, I find any comparison of a 458 to the LFA equally ridiculous (although you never made the comparison initially).

S2000toIS350

TRDFantasy

Regarding your point below:

"The LFA also has a completely carbon fiber outer shell/exterior"

I believe many of the LFA body panels are fiberglass to facilitate minor body work at reasonable cost.

TRDFantasy

The global LFA website officially describes it as a "Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic Body".

The (very long) official press release also describes it as a Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic body.

Lastly, looking at the official LFA press kit from Toyota, all the exterior panels, save for the bumpers, doors, and fenders and skirts are completely carbon fiber.

You're partly right. The hood, the spoiler, and the roof of the car are all carbon fiber. The doors have aluminum side impact beams. The doors themselves, along with the fenders/quarter panels and bumpers appear to be made of some hybrid material. It seems it is a fiberglass-like material combined with a reinforced polymer.

Looking at all the information I have, it's not regular or pure fiberglass. It's a hybrid of fiberglass reinforced with a polymer resin. Reinforced polymer in this case helps with compressive loading or flexibility, which is something that is a weakness of pure fiberglass. This hybrid reinforced material is also strengthened with glass microballoons, which are tiny hollow glass spheres that, when impregnated into the reinforced fiberglass polymer resin compound, give additional strength, especially compressive strength. In simple terms, it's a rather complex hybrid compound.

Point is though, there is no aluminum used for the LFA's body or exterior panels. The aluminum side impact beams are located inside the doors, not on the exterior.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

TRDFantasy, I have two requests

1) Let the moderator team do the moderating. If you have a concern with another member's comments, use the report a post feature to alert us to review it.

2) Respect the other members who may have a different opinion than yours. This IS A LEXUS FORUM, but its OK that not everyone is going to like this car. If someone is trolling, we'll deal with it; see #1

If you can't do these things, I'll ask you to exit this thread please.

LexFather

Well Lexus was brilliant in their CF execution. You see the tub and structure is CF, weaved in house, something no one else can claim. Their CF is OUTSOURCED.

Lexus figured out they will use the fiberglass/CF for the doors, hood, etc so if an accident happens or you need bodywork, you don't have to ship the car to Japan to get it fixed. A good bodyshop will be able to fix it.

Now if you get in a serious wreck where you damage the tub, you have to ship it to Japan, if it can be fixed at all.

This can potentially save the buyer a lot of time, money and headaches if an accident occurs (and looking at supercars, they are not unusual).

TommyJames

Many of you keep placing a value on exclusivity. It means virtually nothing. If it did, Vectors would be through the roof. I could go down a long list of low production cars that are damn near worthless unless more than 20 years old where they start to regain some collector value. Most exotic owners I know look at price/performance/brand image (looks included) and that's about it. This is why Ferrari still sells in its market segment over Corvette. Same with Lamborghini and other brands. If the LFA excites you, great! I'm still waiting for the posts where people are in love with it AND have plunked their money down to buy one. At the end of the day, that's the real proof of market value. People can come here and defend it or bash it all day, but in the end, I want to see the actual sales in our market. By now 25+ US buyers should be notified and so far, I've not seen anyone doing the Snoopy dance on any forum that they have been chosen by Lexus. Meanwhile, the F458 line is so long two dealers I know are telling customers that production is already sold out three years.

S2000toIS350

Hi Tommy

I have mentioned that the allocation plan
needs to be approved prior to potential
US buyers are informed

I agree that based on the lease details
document we would have expected to have
some folks informed by now but that just
ain't how things are being done

Mister Two

Believe it or not, some people do put a lot of value in exclusivity. There's a good reason why the Reventon, which is nothing more than a kitted Murcielago LP640 with absolutely no mechanical/performance improvements, can command 5 times the price of an LP640--exclusivity. Only 20 of them are to be built. The Reventon can otherwise be very easily called "overpriced" if no one cared about exclusivity like you claim. While Lexus as a brand may not have the same status quo of Lamborghini, it is certainly a whole lot more reputed and better established than um, "Vector". (You can't be serious about comparing Vector to Lexus.) I imagine people who prefer to strike a balance between exclusivity/rarity, brand image and availability of service will find the LFA of appealing value.

But since you are "content" with waiting on the LFA buyers (most of whom are likely not forum participants) to report in their statuses instead of calling Lexus USA to verify that they've stopped taking new applications, we can all only speculate all day long for now.

pagemaster

So are you basically saying, Lexus is having trouble selling the LF-A?

LexFather

He is saying "he thinks" that and Tommy has been very logical and vocal explaining his thought process and presenting his case on why he "thinks" so. Which is fine.

From what other have stated in this same thread and elsewhere is the opposite, there is over 1100 buyers lined up for the car. Which is fine.

We shall see what is what very soon.

TommyJames

If you think I'm comparing any car to the LFA based on performance you're not comprehending what I'm writing. Exclusivity is not that big of a selling point, regardless of what you may think. The Reventon was a design study, not intended to be anything but that, which is why they didn't publish performance data. Each unique part had to come off a CNC machine which is why it was so expensive. It was intended to be a collector car from the start which is why it was set at twenty, which then justified the price. As for exclusivity not panning out, we could go down the long list from Saleen, Vector, Delorean, Pagani, Veyron, Spyker, (I'm forgetting a lot more) all claiming the same thing, only to have their *** handed to them in depreciation. If you're buying any 500 unit car with the expectation of appreciation you're fooling yourself. NOTHING in those numbers in a recent build is appreciating yet (except for a few rare colors on LP670-4 SVs of which there are only 43 in the US, and even the coveted Enzo has been losing ground in this market.)

Lots of people here defending the LFA, but again, proof will be with actual buyers. I hope someone here begins a VIN registry, similar to what we have with SVs, so the truth is known, one way or another.

As for the forums, I'll say it again, over half the SV owners are on forums. Go look at the LP670-4SV photo section on TeamSpeed as just one example. Again there will be almost four times as many LFAs in the US.

This is the expected to be the center of LFA chatter with buyers so there should be some percentage of the 150 on here. You can argue that the buyers won't be on forums but I don't know of a single exotic that's doesn't have owners/buyers on forums. At a minimum there should be fifteen here for the US market alone and given the brand loyalty that is driving a lot of excitement about the car, I'd guess there would be a lot more than that here. I'm waiting for those posts from those owners that say, yup, I wrote my check, my build date is X and I picked X color and options, along with the usual comparison of notes that typically goes with exotic ownership.

Again, I'm content to wait until the end of June when all should be notified that they are a lucky owner and there should be lots of posts somewhere, on some forum with discussion about their arrival date, etc. Those buyers will have the best insight into where things really stand with the car, assuming they do their homework.

TXSTYLE

iTrader: (1)

Excellently stated.

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

Don't pump him up....he does enough of that on his own!