Lexus will only sell the LFA to those who will flaunt it
01-21-10, 12:12 AM
#47
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Not even going to respond to Stormwind 
Let me quickly talk about the M1
The contract was for Lambo to build it but they could not fulfill that contract so it moved to Baur. 455 were made (399 are road cars, the rest race cars) not b/c BMW wanted to limit sales, it was b/c no one wanted them and the racing rules changed. They were very problematic and to be honest not really mentioned with the great supercars. It was actually built for homologation.
TODAY people talk about the M1 and BMW is great at using "heritage" but it wasn't a home run by any means. Now I will say it did create the "M" brand and the M3/M5 came a few years after, which is to Ryan's point that Lexus wants the LFA to create the "F" brand. The confusing part is the LFA WAS a PLANNED product 10 years ago and remember, though the IS-F came first, it was NOT a planned product, it was a "skunkworks" product.
We have now seen a IS-F CSS which used CF parts all over. Could this be from what was learned from the LFA? I believe so.
The 65k SC 430's highest allocation was 12k a year then 10k after...you want a 130k car to sell 10k units a year? That is IMPOSSIBLE. You do realize Nissan sells about 100 80k GT-Rs a month and Audi sells about 80 130k-200k R8s a month. That is around 900-1200 a year max.
It is amazing to me people are not celebrating the first true exotic from Japan and instead find ways to embarrass it. It is borderline offensive. It is amazing to me people want the car "dumbed down" instead of using the pinnacle and highest technology Japan has put in a sports car.
It truly puzzles me. People have said for so long "Lexus is boring" over and over no matter what they build. Here they build BY FAR the most exotic Japanese car, a blend of NSX and GT-R and they are picking it apart. Lexus originally planned to make an okay supercar and then said "you know what, let us see what we are capable of". People are upset at that? People want Lexus to aim low? Huh????
If the LFA was 200k with a V-8 and was aluminum people would BISH about it not being Carbon Fiber and a V-10 b/c they can't build it. They would say "the NSX was aluminum and 90k".
Let me quickly talk about the M1
The contract was for Lambo to build it but they could not fulfill that contract so it moved to Baur. 455 were made (399 are road cars, the rest race cars) not b/c BMW wanted to limit sales, it was b/c no one wanted them and the racing rules changed. They were very problematic and to be honest not really mentioned with the great supercars. It was actually built for homologation. TODAY people talk about the M1 and BMW is great at using "heritage" but it wasn't a home run by any means. Now I will say it did create the "M" brand and the M3/M5 came a few years after, which is to Ryan's point that Lexus wants the LFA to create the "F" brand. The confusing part is the LFA WAS a PLANNED product 10 years ago and remember, though the IS-F came first, it was NOT a planned product, it was a "skunkworks" product.
We have now seen a IS-F CSS which used CF parts all over. Could this be from what was learned from the LFA? I believe so.
The 65k SC 430's highest allocation was 12k a year then 10k after...you want a 130k car to sell 10k units a year? That is IMPOSSIBLE. You do realize Nissan sells about 100 80k GT-Rs a month and Audi sells about 80 130k-200k R8s a month. That is around 900-1200 a year max.
It is amazing to me people are not celebrating the first true exotic from Japan and instead find ways to embarrass it. It is borderline offensive. It is amazing to me people want the car "dumbed down" instead of using the pinnacle and highest technology Japan has put in a sports car.
It truly puzzles me. People have said for so long "Lexus is boring" over and over no matter what they build. Here they build BY FAR the most exotic Japanese car, a blend of NSX and GT-R and they are picking it apart. Lexus originally planned to make an okay supercar and then said "you know what, let us see what we are capable of". People are upset at that? People want Lexus to aim low? Huh????
If the LFA was 200k with a V-8 and was aluminum people would BISH about it not being Carbon Fiber and a V-10 b/c they can't build it. They would say "the NSX was aluminum and 90k".
You were talking about sales in the U.S. I assume. I was talking about sales all over the world. But still yes, may be that is impossible. Several thousands units is possible, though.
01-21-10, 05:05 AM
#49
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Stormwind, MR_F1 - please exit this post.
01-21-10, 05:06 AM
#50
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Mind you the LFA's price also rose significantly because of exchange rates. The Yen is craptastic for exporting now.
01-21-10, 05:16 AM
#51
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This is a wrong tactic in my opinion. Lexus should build an entry level super car costing around $130k and build like 10,000 units a year, not a top level super car costing $400k and produce 500 units throughout the whole model life. If you want people to know your capability to make cars on par with those of Porsche and Ferrari, you want your product to be seen. How could I know there is such a Lexus super car if I can't see one on the street in five years? Not everyone is like us car enthusiasts following car news all the time. I am sure many people do not know LF-A's existence. Toyota is like this, either don't make a sports car, or make an ultra-expensive one so seldom ones could actually own it. Learn to run before knowing how to walk. Be cocky all you want Toyota, this car is not going to accomplish what it was originally meant to.
That would extend the "F" branding and it would allow there to be an affordable version and a "let's see what we can do" version for both buyer types. Wouldn't have been a bad idea in my opinion. They could set the sales goal for the $400K version at 500, and let the cheap version sell like a normal R8 type supercar.
01-21-10, 11:19 AM
#52
01-21-10, 11:43 AM
#54
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Benz SLR didn't have any models under it in the 1960s. As a matter of fact when AMG offically was bought by Benz, the first car was a C32 back in 1993 or so. The SLR came what 10 years later?
Chevy had the Corvette for the last decade or so without anything else, the Camaro just came back out
BMW debuted the M1 in 1978 and the first M5 was in 1985 (not here till 88) M3 came in 1986, that is 8 years later.
Audi has had S/RS way before the R8
Volvo tried with "R" and only the S60R
Caddy has "V" and the SLR-V was the first 100k Caddy but they could not give them away.
Jaguar maybe the closest case? They debuted the XJ220 and they had NOTHING to follow it at the time and ever. People lined up to buy it (the great late auto run of the 1980s) but dropped like flies when the V-12 became a tt V-6. Today they have the "R" line but no supercar.
So what I am trying to say is it would be GREAT if Lexus had the LFA now and SC-F or so now but as history shows it is not that simple. These projects at all these companies are pushed the PASSION of the company, not the accounting team. There is no right or wrong way to debut and develop your performance division.
My fav implementation is AMG, they seemingly have a AMG everything! And it took 2 decades to happen!
Last edited by LexFather; 01-21-10 at 11:47 AM.
01-21-10, 12:18 PM
#55
Lets see here....
Benz SLR didn't have any models under it in the 1960s. As a matter of fact when AMG offically was bought by Benz, the first car was a C32 back in 1993 or so. The SLR came what 10 years later?
Chevy had the Corvette for the last decade or so without anything else, the Camaro just came back out
BMW debuted the M1 in 1978 and the first M5 was in 1985 (not here till 88) M3 came in 1986, that is 8 years later.
Audi has had S/RS way before the R8
Volvo tried with "R" and only the S60R
Caddy has "V" and the SLR-V was the first 100k Caddy but they could not give them away.
Jaguar maybe the closest case? They debuted the XJ220 and they had NOTHING to follow it at the time and ever. People lined up to buy it (the great late auto run of the 1980s) but dropped like flies when the V-12 became a tt V-6. Today they have the "R" line but no supercar.
So what I am trying to say is it would be GREAT if Lexus had the LFA now and SC-F or so now but as history shows it is not that simple. These projects at all these companies are pushed the PASSION of the company, not the accounting team. There is no right or wrong way to debut and develop your performance division.
My fav implementation is AMG, they seemingly have a AMG everything! And it took 2 decades to happen!
Benz SLR didn't have any models under it in the 1960s. As a matter of fact when AMG offically was bought by Benz, the first car was a C32 back in 1993 or so. The SLR came what 10 years later?
Chevy had the Corvette for the last decade or so without anything else, the Camaro just came back out
BMW debuted the M1 in 1978 and the first M5 was in 1985 (not here till 88) M3 came in 1986, that is 8 years later.
Audi has had S/RS way before the R8
Volvo tried with "R" and only the S60R
Caddy has "V" and the SLR-V was the first 100k Caddy but they could not give them away.
Jaguar maybe the closest case? They debuted the XJ220 and they had NOTHING to follow it at the time and ever. People lined up to buy it (the great late auto run of the 1980s) but dropped like flies when the V-12 became a tt V-6. Today they have the "R" line but no supercar.
So what I am trying to say is it would be GREAT if Lexus had the LFA now and SC-F or so now but as history shows it is not that simple. These projects at all these companies are pushed the PASSION of the company, not the accounting team. There is no right or wrong way to debut and develop your performance division.
My fav implementation is AMG, they seemingly have a AMG everything! And it took 2 decades to happen!
01-21-10, 02:07 PM
#56
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..I am just being real here if somebody paid that much money and tried to flunt it in front of a trendy place (like Lexus wants you to do) that is exactly what people will point and say. And when people realized how much you paid for it they get a good laugh will say if you like that tail why not just buy an Audi? If you liked all those vents why not a Lambo that's actually functional.
Just because the are rich and trendy, doesn't mean they know any more about exotics than the average Joe. Enthusiasts aside, most people are not gonna know what it is, no matter what car you park out front. They are gonna equate it to one or two well known Italian automakers, simply because it's the only point of reference they have.
01-22-10, 10:53 AM
#58
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Actually, very far from the truth. You may get a lot of people asking "what is that? A Farrari or Lamborghini?". But they would ask the same about most supercars.
Just because the are rich and trendy, doesn't mean they know any more about exotics than the average Joe. Enthusiasts aside, most people are not gonna know what it is, no matter what car you park out front. They are gonna equate it to one or two well known Italian automakers, simply because it's the only point of reference they have.
Just because the are rich and trendy, doesn't mean they know any more about exotics than the average Joe. Enthusiasts aside, most people are not gonna know what it is, no matter what car you park out front. They are gonna equate it to one or two well known Italian automakers, simply because it's the only point of reference they have.
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