S2000toIS350

Remember, the lease thing is a red herring.

The calculation is provided as a model element to use to build up the real down payment that will be received prior to delivery (around $300K).

Add the registration hoo hah of around $30K in Chicago and some insurance and you probably need about $335K to put the LFA in your garage.

Ad the end of the lease you can do any kind of financing you want to cover the residual.

knihc2008

iTrader: (1)

Can we just talk about the $20,000 matte black paint job for a minute?

S2000toIS350

Wouldn't you rather talk about the $200 winglets?

MR_F1

I honestly thought that was a typo.

newr

Can we do a group lease?

I am willing to chip in $40k. I only need 9 more people. Who is with me? Each can keep her for a month. Think about it. Your dream may become a reality that easy!

newr

IMO , If people have to finance the $90k, they can't afford it in the first place

TommyJames

I'm confused. If this car truly has the demand that Lexus claims, then why such a low residual? Second, extremely few Ferrari or Lamborghini owners ever put anywhere near 15,000 miles a year on any exotic. The average is around 3,000 miles. I put 10,000 miles on my LP640 and that was considered a lot in two years. Keep in mind you can't just park exotics anywhere and after a while you learn to plan when to go out and your final destination. If you don't you'll come out with some dent in your hood from someone laying on the car for a photo so it's hard to put a lot of miles on these cars.

Production on the LP670-4 SV just closed. They sticker with normal options at $500k. Lamborghini only sold 43 in the US market and two are going to a foreign market. That's it! That's all there will ever be and they are considered collector cars. LP640s new sell for around $450k -loaded with options and they sold a very small number. I believe 2010 numbers are even lower than the SV. Granted it may be a saturated market for Murcielagos so that has to be weighed into the equation. Part of the reason for low sales is because the used market is so weak and a used exotic is a great deal. A new LFA still has to compete with the used exotic market. If you can buy an 08 LP640 Coup with low miles for around $250k that will hold close to that value for the next two years, it seems like a far better deal. That car would have stickered at around $400k. In a normal market, the used price would be around $300-325k.

As for the option list, I'm guessing if it's like other exotics all will go with full options so the car competes almost dollar for dollar with the LP640 and will be almost twice as expensive as the F458. Even a new Gallardo LP560 is $250k, used around $190 for a low mile fairly new car.

Has Lexus promised to buyers they will hold their price? What happens if they don't sell? (I'm sticking with my prediction that the market will absorb around 20 cars and that's about it.) Will Lexus dump the price to move cars? Will they just reduce production? These are questions every serious buyer should ask of Lexus and get it in writing. Who wants an exotic that Lexus dumped that is only worth $97k in two years, regardless of miles.

As for the lease payment, keep in mind, you also have to add sales tax, in most states it's 10% so add that to the payment. So as I see it, payments are closer to $14,000 a month. When I see that, I don't see this lease as a true selling point, something I thought would the ace up their sleeve.

When the SV was announced about a year ago, there was lots of buzz about what options and colors people were buying. Given that the order process opens next week, I'm not seeing that same buzz on any exotic forum and they plan to sell 150?

I know I'm getting bashed as the resident troll and I'm not. I'm just throwing in what I know as an exotic owner and someone very active in the car community. I am looking forward to seeing buyers come on here and tell us what they ordered in color and options. We should see those posts beginning next week?

Oh, as for color, flat black is $14k option at Lamborghini for the SV as are all the special tri-colors. The flat colors require a special agreement because they are difficult to maintain and should never be considered for an intended high-mile car.

S2000toIS350

I think folks are coming into this discussion with a framework of normal leasing.

I have been trying to illustrate that this is not really a lease.

Folks have referred to the $97K as a residual. The term should be outstanding balance.

It is a 2 payment purchase.

You pay about $300K to take delivery and you pay what ever else is outstanding at the end of 2 years to take title.

The process includes a few hard stops.

$10K to start the game. If you pass go (credit check) you can place an order.

If not they call the next customer. That aspect is reflected in the March to June allocation communication timing.

Another $50K to place the order.

Prior to delivery, credit check number 2 and pony up about $240K. You may have to roll the registration $ in at this point.

Take delivery.

24 months after delivery, pay the residual (just an outstanding balance) and take title.

newr

Althought I understand their reasons behind it, IMO calling it "lease" is very stupid & unattactive especially to the rich folks with cash to burn. Eventhough it's not true, I've heard so many people made this comment "Yeah,,, they lease it because they can't afford to own it"

Why not call it a 2 payment purchase with a contract clearly stated that it can not be sold before the end of the 2yr agreement and the 2nd paymemt is made? or something like that.

Just a thought.

gengar

Because, for what seems like the 50th time I've posted this on this forum, Lexus is offering the LFA for purchase but structured as a lease with option to buy. It's not built like a lease because it's not meant to be a lease and no one is going to lease the LFA. (Do we need to make this a sticky or put it in all of 1SICKLEX's warning posts for all the LFA-bashing trolls?) It's a stop-gap measure to prevent speculators from flipping the car.

By the way, the F50's forced lease had around the same residual as a percentage of its total lease price as the LFA will... which makes sense, given that from the beginning we've speculated that Lexus is just copying Ferrari's distribution model in this regard.

TommyJames

Right, but no matter how you slice it, it's forcing buyers to front load their purchase to the tune of $300k in the first two years. The majority of exotics are financed. This "lease" cuts out those payment shoppers, and they do exist at this price point. For many exotic owners it comes down to use of funds, and has nothing to do with available cash. Lets say you're in business for yourself and you're getting a 20% return on your money in your business, you'd be wise to finance. If the cost of financing is higher than the return on your money, you'd be better off paying cash.

My point is that someone could buy a Lamborghini LP640 and at the end of two years still shell out a lot less money. Same with used Ferraris, etc. Furthermore without any written assurance from Lexus (don't know if they will or won't provide them) LFA buyers could get hurt if they don't sell and Lexus decides to "discount" the remaining cars. On their own website they will begin "accepting purchase applications" back in October so you'd think there would be buyer announcements this next week about color and options.

However you want to slice it, this is a car that heavily loaded in the front end and I suspect it's being done so for a reason.

gengar

It'll be contractual. You'd know that if you read S2000toIS350's post, but it's not surprising that you haven't.


Ya, 'cause the F50 sucked too.

TommyJames

For not being a "Lease" the term comes up more than 20 times in the language on the first post. The buy down of the lease has always been available through Lexus and was available when I bought my LS460L. The terms look very similar when the LS460 came out and every term they use, including "residual balance" is a term consistent with a lease. The looks like a lease, smells like a lease, it IS a lease. Why is it that anyone who questions the terms is automatically assumed to be a troll?

The F50 was a different animal and the criteria was number of Ferraris previously purchased and from what I understand it was a first rights sale if you sold the car before the end of a one year term and was not a lease. I'll check with someone who has one.

S2000toIS350

Hi Tommy,

I agree with your point regarding the Lexus folks cutting out a lot of customers with this mechanism.

It does appear to be by design.

My preference would certainly be to used a balanced payment approach.

When I spoke with my accountance he focused on the liquidity topic. To do the deal you will need to be liquid enough through some manner to pony up the $300K. If that is either undoable or undesirable (as you mentioned with the exmaple of your money earning a nice return in your business) you drop out and they call the next person on the list.

I figure the lease mechanism allows lexus to hold the titles to best control the flippage. If they were selling, it would be hard to not allow full payment or not allow you to finance through an independent entity (Chase, etc.) where the titles would be out of their control.

Regarding the timing of finalizing the allocations, I understand there is a lot of control for the process from Toyota corporate in Japan. Please consider that the recall issue is taking resources from other work. I work at corporate for a large global company. When the blank hits the fan, other stuff don't move too quick.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

S2000, thanks for the leasing info.....