TommyJames

Yup, gives the discussion some substance.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

LOL, gonna erase what I wrote and keep the thread on topic....

TommyJames

Here is what I really suspect and for this reason, everyone should do their homework carefully. I suspect that Lexus (may) know they are not going to sell 150 in this market and they don't fear the price flipped up, but cars dumped down, which is what happened to Lamborghini and Ferrari. Lamborghini went from almost 700 LP640s in 2008 to a fraction this year because the used cars were a far better value and the turnover was almost even with the market. What could potentially happen with the LFA is lets say they sell a few on traditional financing terms, 20% down, etc., and those buyers decide they want out after a year, many owners are willing to write that 20% off just to do something else. It then pulls the market flat on the new cars. Even with the SV, of the 43 in the US, nine are still on the market and the two demo cars are already at a discount. Until they are gone, they set the value. Exotics change hands very quickly as it is because they are not basic transportation.

I'm asking hard questions as anyone should who's really interested in this car. I don't know if any of you followed the downfall of Eclipse Aviation, the tiny little jet. There was an engineer who was asking really hard questions about the reality of meeting production and he was flamed on the forums so he started his own site. In the end a lot of people got hurt because they ignored the hard questions this guy was asking. The LFA may be a fine car, but I sincerely hope nobody buys it expecting it to go up in value, definitely not with 150 cars in this US market. Even the F50 was only 55 cars. The SV is only 43 and the Enzo 80 cars, all of these had existing exotic reputations and customer bases. To my knowledge all SVs were sold to existing or prior Lamborghini owners.

With such a low residual, the goofy press, I'm suspicious, that's all.

tqlla3k

iTrader: (1)

The residual value of a 375K car after 2 years is.... $93K?

If thats the type of confidence that Lexus has in this car's ability to retain its value... I would suggest passing on this vehicle.

TommyJames

That wouldn't make me pass on it entirely. It does raise doubts. Exotics are not practical anyway. We buy them because we love cars, they do something for us and we have fun driving them. If someone understand the real cost, the true risks and then still wants to jump in, understanding where it really is in the market, then I think that's okay. Nothing practical about a Lamborghini or Ferrari either.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Ok...we get the message, Lexus is wrong, Club Lexus is wrong, the LFA doesn't have any potential buyers, you're all knowing and we bow down to you, is that what you want? You're not happy with the LFA, you think "it is a ricer", that it is overpriced, it doesn't look good, it doesn't perform as well as all of the exotics your buddies have. We get it, we get that you don't like the LFA and that you're rich with a bunch of rich friends. Anything else? because this is all getting very tiring to read when I'm trying to find out some information about a car I actually like.

TommyJames

Uh, and how are my posts stopping you? This is a forum isn't it?

newr

can we stick to the "leasing" topic? Tommy may be a thorn on the side for some but IMO, he does have valid points and questions.

S2000toIS350

I believe Tommy has a great approach to due diligence.

If the LFA did not come from Toyota, I would be much less confident in the vehicle.

Having been driven in it, I believe the prototype represent reality and that reality is the only super car I could both give my wife to drive and could expect to run for 200,000 miles without having the motor, electrical sysem and/or body crap out.

TommyJames

I don't disagree at all.

TommyJames

Really not my intention to be a thorn in anyone's side. I'm content to just read but I do hope someone asks these questions to minimize the risk of getting burned. Same questions should be asked of any exotic brand who tries to control the resale market. Remember, because the car is a two year hold, it means that when they do come on the market, it will be all at once, (in sequence with deliveries) and that too may impact the used market. Lexus will be off the hook because it's not trying to move more new cars (unless they aren't sold out) so they won't have much skin in the game to support values above the residual unless they decide to do another car. As I see it, this lease only benefits the customer if there truly is huge demand for the car. It's otherwise a way to shove new cars onto the market without competing against used prices for two years.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

i can see the point behind leasing, it cut out those people who are really leasing, it seems like lexus is just focusing on people who can actually front the money (cash) to buy the car. lexus is just focusing on cash buyer in that sense if you think about it. now whether that's a good idea or not, i can't say. it's just part of their strategy it seems

on the other hand, the idea of lease is to tie down buyers for at least two years to avoid people from flipping the cars to profit from them, i believe i have read somewhere that it's the true reason behind the "forced" lease program here in the US. assuming the demand on the car is that high, if they allow people to just cash for car, then they can easily flip the car and make 100k to 200k more, much like how the 599 was at one time

TommyJames

Lamborghini also got a premium at one point of I think $50-100k over sticker on the LP640 in 2007. The problem is what do you do if the market isn't there and all the cars come up around the same time? This is why it's not good to count on resale with any exotic.

The current depreciation is about 40% after two years with the LP640. It was around 20% in 2008. This assumes low miles in both cases. I don't think the case will hit the 25% residual. I think they will have more value than that, even if the car doesn't sell, but You could be right, they could be trying to front cash so weak buyers don't come into the market who are likely to default.

LexFather

Thanks newr for getting this thread back on track.


Exactly and I stated that on page 1, its to prevent the car from being sold by the initial buyers.

Look its Lexus FIRST exotic and as far as I am concerned there was no "right" way for them to sell the car. People would have complained one way or the other.


While the GT-R is much cheaper we surely all remember dealers and people buying the intital cars and marking them up way past MSRP and we read it on the internet. Not a good way to do business.

Also from my understanding one does not just buy the special edition Lambos, Ferraris, etc. You have to be a long standing customer who has "earned" his right to buy the rarer edition. They are not just sold on lots and given to anyone.

TommyJames

Yes, but it's demand driven and I believe the rare cars are allocated to dealers. So for example, the Enzo wouldn't necessarily go the one who bought more Ferrari than anyone in total, but at a particular dealership, in part to reward dealership loyalty. In this case, it's a crap shoot in this economy, which is in part why Lamborghini just opened it up to anyone on the SV. There just are not that many new exotic buyer around regardless of brand right now.