TommyJames

I'm 52, most of my friends who own exotics and are on the forums are either in their late 40s or 50s. The average age of a Ferrari owner is 57, yet the Ferrari site is doing well, so is the Lamborghini site, where the average owner's age is also 52. (Interesting but the average age of a Phantom owner is 47, go figure.) With 150 cars expected to be snapped up in the next three to four months 5%-10% at a minimum would be talking about their plans.

I need to digress here- I'm not getting off topic. Exotics are NOT bought in a vacuum, there are a million issues that come with the care and feeding. Things such as where to go for dinner where the car will be safe, who's holding an exotic drive, where to go for detailing, one piece clear mask, nitrogen, where can you drive fast, closed road events, where are the better valets, how do you store the car. Where will other exotic owners meet? There is a very tight knit community around exotics. We join each other's clubs. Lambo guys join the Ferrari Club, and the same in reverse. We debate tires for different weather conditions, (two accidents up her last week related to tires), fuel, oil, camara mounting, leather care, accessories, everything. We warn each other about bad valets, places exotics aren't welcome, bad roads, and crappy service. Once in a while there are owners who own exotics who are completely outside of the car community, but it's really rare.

If you go on the Lambo site, you can see that almost ever SV owner in the US has been identified by the car community. Of the 43 cars, better than half the owners are on one of the exotic forums. In fact, look at the number of avatars marked "owner." It's not just about chatter, there are lots and lots of tiny issues that come up. Exotics are bought by car enthusiasts first the fact that they have money is not the focus, nor do these owners fit the stereotype. Most get just as excited about seeing an old well preserved Mustang as they do a Veyron. Wealthy stereotypes just don't apply.

On top of all this, the lockup of the sale in the form of a lease is reason to do due diligence and I find it hard to believe that buyers wouldn't ask questions in the exotic community before buying as they do for EVERY other brand. I don't know of anyone, regardless of net worth that didn't do at least some homework before they bought their car. Don't take my word for it, take the time to go to the other sites and see if you can find ANY buyer chatter. This lease alone should send a lot of these buyers out asking questions and it's not there, at least not there yet. The next few months may tell the story.

I'm happy to come on here and defend my views, but I don't want to keep posting the same thing. I'm content to just wait and see how this unfolds. My prediction is that Lexus will dump this required lease program and that will be a strong sign of the reality of the entire exotic market, regardless of brand.

J.P.

Tommy again I see your point but I can find my own examples all day where I know people that do not bother with online communities and we can go 1 for 1 all day long on that. The same thing with boaters here in Michigan, I would bet less than 10% of the people I know go on the boating forums but by your standards offshoreonly.com is where everyone would gather with their 200-300-400-500k boats but that is just plain false. Sorry, not everyone is “online”, maybe it just seems that way because we are on here and other forums.

Sure people are doing research, many of them may be reading this thread right now but they will never sign up and chat. The number of unregistered viewers we have far outweighs those that are members, by a long shot!

From your posts it seems since your not seeing anyone post about buying one I guess Lexus will not sell any all, only time will tell I guess.

TommyJames

I agree, not everyone posts. Let's assume it's 10% that do. That's 15 owners. If you count extremely strong consideration, it's probably double that. You'd expect to see 30 people. I'm here because this is the ONLY forum where there is any discussion about the lease. I can start one on the exotic forums, but there are far fewer fans about the car and that's not helpful to the discussion either.

Dave600hL

I have to wonder about those percentages as I only joined recently and I have been driving Lexus(toyota up util a few years ago) for quite some years now. Someone on a photography site asked me to join after he found out I had a LS, which means I am obviously stating the fact that I joied after the fact.

I understand that the exotic community is a small group and is probably well connected, but Again, I will stress a point that I have said all along, a lot of buyers for this car may not have owned an exotic previously, as it is obvious that Lexus is not an exotic car maker as compared to the others that we are talking about. I am not afraid to admit that I have never owed an exotic. And I believe that this car will bring to the market people that would normally stay away from cars like these.(Of corse that is my opinion which may be heavily influenced by what is going around the grape vine here.) I would love to know if those who have voiced their desire to buy a LFA have owned a true exotic previously. That would be a good yard stick to start from.

TommyJames

Would definitely make for some really interesting discussion. I'm all for bringing more people into the exotic community, regardless of brand. I don't like to see anyone have a bad experience with any brand, be it Lexus or Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc. Before I bought my LP640, I had this idea that I wouldn't be welcome in Ferrari circles, yet after I got my car, I couldn't have been more wrong. Up in the Seattle area, we all get along, make fun of what each other drives of course, but we have a great time. Many non-exotic owners come out to our weekly event and have just as much fun because the bottom line is we're car guys first, and anyone who knows me knows I don't pray to any brand god. It's still a car. I'd love to see more buyers come on here and write about what they think of the lease terms and how it's influencing their decision, good and bad.

gengar

No one has "missed" this at all; in fact, my and rominl's posts demonstrate exactly the opposite. Our point is that Lexus's desire and intent is to get this car to people who will keep it rather than speculators who will flip it, and they're balancing that against the forced lease.

TommyJames

The exotic market is very small as it is, now you're fragmenting that even more with buyers who will only be interesting in holding the car as a commitment and that's an EXTREMELY tiny market. It only works for cars like the Enzo and that was because of the history with the F40 and F50. Lexus doesn't have that history with anything. I don't think they have any idea how small the market is for that type of customer, forget the differences in car, this wouldn't fly with any other brand except special cars from Ferrari where there is a already a giant exotic customer base. With the SVs, if I had to guess how many of the 43 cars would agree to something like that I'd guess none. The fact that I can step out any time and sell my car is a very big deal to me. (Most of the exotics up here are not financed, which is the complete opposite of LA.) There are too many other fun cars out there that won't tie you down and are still fun to drive.

I8ABMR

refreshing to hear the point of view of someone who actually owns and drives an exotic car and knows many with cars of the same caliber. Thanks for posting buddy.

LexFather

Maybe, just maybe this is a new type of car for a new type of buyer? Nothing from Japan has ever debuted or been built like this. It is quite possible that traditional channels won't be used here as they have with other cars.

The LFA is a very subdued exotic in comparison to Ferrari's or Lambos. For one it simply does not have the badge power which we can ALL agree too.

Wouldn't a subdued car then attract people that don't want to garner attention? If you want attention, you buy/drive a Ferrari or Lambo. The LFA is not that vehicle.

Where does it say every exotic must be sold the same way? Lexus rarely is wrong when it debuts a vehicle, the numbers and results speak for themselves. Yes this is a huge risk and YES it could very well fail hard.

So did the CGT, SLR (in regards to sales goals) and others when the economy was doing well. They DID NOT meet sales targets. This again was when spending money was in vogue.

Gengar, S2000toIS and DaveLS600 are three prospective buyers in two different countries. Quite frankly considering only 500 will be made I find that to be a high ratio.

Maybe just maybe when the car is purchased owners will post here. We hope so.

Also maybe just MAYBE the exotic community CANNOT get past the badge of it being a Lexus and are ignoring it. Which is fine it happens to all brands. Surely if this car was the new Lambo or Ferrari then yes, people would be all over it.

Jay Leno said in a recent issue of Performance Car that the new McLaren (and the F1) are for gearheads. Most people do not know what a McLaren is. Most wealthy do not. You have to be in tune with motorsport and truly into cars to know their accomplishments. He said that is a huge appeal to him, whereas Ferrari and Lambo everyone knows about, they sell in much larger numbers and a lot of people buy just because.

The LFA is quite McLaren in that nature. You really have to be a gearhead to know about it and truly interested in buying it since you are spending $400,000 on a car that might not get a second look to a F430 or so.

TommyJames

Aston Martin thought something similar with the DBS and it's not selling at all. That it would appeal to people who want to remain understated. You could be right that there is an entirely new segment of buyers, but that would be unusual. Car guys who will spend $400k on something usually care about what they are getting for that and will compare it against other rides out there, even something as sedate as a Phantom takes sales away from exotics. Weird, I know, but in that segment, it's like owning a boat. It's for play mostly. Few Phantoms are owned by people who use it as a daily drive. To me when I think exotics, I think expensive toys. We're on this forum because we're car guys first, right? We may like Lexus but here we are on the general side of the Lexus forum where other brands come up every other thread.

David and the others may want to chime in here, but my impression is that they are seriously considering the car and have not yet made the plunge, except for possible David? I've kept most of the discussion on the US market where I pay close attention to what's interesting and what's not and why.

You're also making my point with the other cars you mention. Nobody has ever had a sellout launch of a new segment departing from their core business, regardless of how they want to spin it. Yea, there are ups and downs in the market and sometimes cars aren't available for a year or more, but often that's production related issues.

I don't view the LFA as a competitive threat to what I have now. I see it as the opposite, one more brand from which to choose, one more person who likes something different to come play with us. We tease the hell out of each other. I had green custom M&Ms made for my Ferrari friends when I took delivery of my green SV. On one it had the image of the SV, on the other it had the letters 4RE4KR. It's all in fun. Believe me, the day an LFA comes to play, we will be eating puffed rice.

I don't know about the badge itself. I'd have to think about that one. The SLR was well accepted from day-one even if it didn't sell all that well, it was well respected. When one came to our car event for the first time, it got a lot of attention from everyone. At the time it was priced above everything else and I know one of the dealers really got hurt thinking they would appreciate and they sank like a stone.

This is a really bad market for everything right now. This will be one of the most interesting car launches ever and I'm looking forward to see how it plays out.

TRDFantasy

TommyJames, as others have mentioned, if MOST of the interest in the LFA is buyers new to Lexus, or buyers new to supercars and exotics, then most of your arguments DO NOT apply. Furthermore, as has been stated MANY times to you, many LFA buyers simply might not be part of any online communities. They might be discussing their purchasing decisions with people in person, and those people may not be connected AT ALL to your circle of friends.

It would be appreciated if you would acknowledge these points, instead of continuing to ignore them.

TommyJames

It's because I disagree. It's not about me personally as you try to make the argument. There is no chatter anywhere about anyone buying an LFA, this is the closest there is to it anywhere, on any exotic forum I can find. They are claiming to have all 150 spots filled in between now and June and you think that will happen with so little chatter? I'm not that gullible. All the arguments still apply. Sorry it makes you so mad, but I pay close attention to this segment of the car world because it interests me.

TRDFantasy

If you disagree, then that is your personal opinion, which DOES make it about you.

You continue to ignore the points others and I have mentioned . Suit yourself.

LexFather

Thanks again for your insights.

I can easily say I totally understand the LFA not having the "badge power" to command traditional buyers at this price segment. We say the same thing about say Acura in the 50k plus segment. No badge power to buyers.

It is what it is. Sadly on the internet you have some people acting like badge means nothing and we live in utopia where everyone makes logical decisions.

We would all drive Corollas then.

I just hope to see the learnings of the LFA trickle down to cars that don't cost as much.

Infra

iTrader: (1)

It's possible for someone to understand your argument yet still disagree with it. It's doubtful that an anonymous stranger on the internet is going to convince him contrary to conclusions drawn him his first-hand experience.