Och

iTrader: (3)

So wear the seat belt.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

You can disagree all you like, but there is no sound evidence an airbag has ever saved a single person. There is very clear evidence they have killed and maimed repeatedly.

If you're stupid enough to ignore the obvious benefit of wearing a seat belt, I would argue you really don't need one. Much like the motorcycle rider who after seeing all the evidence supporting wearing a helmet, still refuses to wear one; I'm pretty confident he or she doesn't need a helmet at all.

If airbags are so wonderful, why are they not be installed in all racing vehicles?

Clearly there was a tremendous amount of energy in this crash. I distinctly remember the McLaren F1 surviving the UK crash testing at 25 mph without any damage at all to the chassis or bodywork. The LFA of a very similar construction to the F1 is destroyed from everything we can see.

I sincerely hope the details of what caused the accident become public. It's very tragic for sure, but it's also important to know what really happened from a safety perspective.

Dave600hL

Sad news for sure, I pray for the family.


I am not going to get into this argument again, but it is virtually impossible to study a crash where someone survived and say definitively say that it was because of the airbag that they lived. Then saying that they have maimed repeatedly when in fact they could have died without the airbag.

And according to NHTSA an "estimated" 8000 lives have been saved by air bags and 109,000 by seatbelts.
http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd...ESV-000500.pdf

If anyone could predict the outcome of any crash before or after it occurred they would be a millionaire. And why don't you say the same thing about seat belts? Scientists can only estimate the lives saved by them too. But there are definitive figures on deaths cause by seatbelt injuries due to internal organ damage and other causes. But I don't see you parading the fact that they also have killed and maimed.
http://www.imvs.sa.gov.au/newsletter...2_seatbelt.pdf

As it stands in the research done thus far ,the use of airbags or seatbealts far outweighs the risks and until you have any information otherwise it is my suggestion that you stop this misinformation.

ming15237

iTrader: (3)

[QUOTE=lobuxracer;5592917]You can disagree all you like, but there is no sound evidence an airbag has ever saved a single person. There is very clear evidence they have killed and maimed repeatedly.

If you're stupid enough to ignore the obvious benefit of wearing a seat belt, I would argue you really don't need one. Much like the motorcycle rider who after seeing all the evidence supporting wearing a helmet, still refuses to wear one; I'm pretty confident he or she doesn't need a helmet at all.

Thanks for the support Lobux. A person being launched into the rear passenger compartment is NOT a good thing Stormwind. What we usually see is a broken neck from such events, leading in instant death. I can't even tell you the amount of times I saw serious injuries from Chrysler minivans airbags burning people an several times causing permanent blindness, people riding with their feet on the dash is another favorite, generally speaking they will either loose their legs or have them thrust into their face or chest. Dogs in the front seat... instant 200mph 15lbs missile! So for those uninformed, wear your seat belt, sit as far from the steering wheel as comfortably possible keep kids in the back seat, and feet off the dash, Fido stays in the back as well NOT on your lap!

Stormwind

You can link all the links believe all the things you want. Air bags saves lives. Seat belts saves lives. And who is arguing the benefits of seat belts?

If roll cages are so wonderful, why are they not installed in all road vheicles? Go ahead and compare more oranges to apples.

Stormwind

Of course it's bad, without the air bag the guy would be tossed out of the windshield (providing they are not wearing seat belt.) Instant death, no chance of surival. Broken neck. Done

At least with the air bag they might have a chance being thrown to the back seat.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

So it's OK to ignore all those who have been clearly killed by airbags, and MAGICALLY when an airbag kills at 15 mph, it can't kill at 35 mph?

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. If you've ever actually SEEN someone who's been punched in the face by an airbag, your opinion would change dramatically. And PLEASE, the idiocy of saying they'd be dead without it completely ignores the crashes race drivers survive weekend after weekend because their safety systems are based on measurable performance, not statistical manipulation.

Maybe you should read a bit about Joan Claybrook and her insistence on airbags in all cars so we could ELIMINATE seat belts?

Seat belts have been proved over and over again to prevent injury and death. They've not maimed anyone. Airbags have very clearly killed AND maimed. Of course EMS people know nothing of the consequences of airbags. Or do they? How about the Journal of Trauma?

AGAIN- IF AIRBAGS WERE SO WONDERFUL, THEY'D BE FOUND IN EVERY RACE CAR ON THE TRACK.

Present or not, they would not have saved Hiromu Naruse.

mikez

To be thrown into the back seat means you must go through your own seat lol :/

Stormwind

Obviously you don't get it. I doubt you'll get any of it but I'll answer your apple to oranges question anyways.

Race cars have roll cages, 5 point harness and the driver wears a helmet and a full fire proof racing suit. With a big crew of emergency personals standing by. Maybe it doesn't need an air bag.

Road cars have air bags because maybe they don't a roll cage, 5 point harness and the driver doesn't wear a helmet or a full fire suit. They also don't have a big crew of emergency personals standing by 10 feet away.


All those so called "facts" can pretty much contributes to people doing dumb things like not wearing seat belts, placing items like a dog, a leg, a grenade on the dash board where the air bag is.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

So airbags can stop fires, and take the place of emergency personnel? I doubt it. Airbags are intended to reduce the force of impact by hitting you in the face harder than you're moving forward in hopes of slowing you before you hit something solid. Of course if you were wearing your seat belt, you wouldn't be in danger of hitting anything, not unlike my stepdad when he drove his 1968 Mercedes 250 into a stone wall at 60 mph and walked away with only a bruise on his shoulder. Contrast this with my ex-wife driving my Supra into a wall at 60 mph with her seat belt on and her entire face was burned and bruised by the airbag exploding in front of her. Or my wife's friend's mother who was blinded for two weeks by the airbag deploying in her car when she was safely belted in place.

Apples and oranges? No. Safety gear is safety gear. Some of it is based on real world performance. Other bits of it are based on Joan Claybrook's arrogance and forceful wielding of Federal Motor Vehicles standards powers with no regard for real world performance.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

ok, enough talk on airbags. back on topic please

DASHOCKER

iTrader: (2)

More on the accident from BF:

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2010/06/24...bmw/#more-7244

lexmenow

Maybe he passed because he was 67 years old and not due to safety reasons. As we age our bodies become more fragile.

TripleL

I'm glad to hear the other two involved should be OK as one loss of life is already too much.

S2000toIS350

Thanks for the good news about the other folks involved in the accident.

I expect the long term damage from the current tragedy will be costly to Lexus.

No matter what comes out of the investigation, here is an expectable scenario:

High end car shopper in F Car or Lamb or P Car, etc. dealership.

Customer: How is your car against an LFA?

Sales person: The LFA is an interesting car. The thing is, after that LFA accident with a small BMW, with the LFA driver buckled in and wearing a helmet getting killed, would you trust a loved one's life in that car?