Chief Toyota test driver killed in LFA wreck
06-26-10, 06:53 PM
#91
Lexus Fanatic
Take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt. Majority of what's been posted is opinion, not expert research. My field of work involves accident investigation and reconstruction as well as having first hand experience with the LFA. It's clear this accident is a tragedy. Lets focus off of internet opinions and wait for the real results of the investigation. We may well never know the real facts of this loss...but I think it's best if we leave it to the experts to make the call. Do any of the opinions posted have any real accident investigation expertise? I highly doubt it.
Are you going to be part of the investigating team yourself?
I've mentioned before how Mercedes, whenever possible (or feasible) sends out a team of factory engineers to crash sites involving fatal crashes involving M-B products. I've seen them at crash sites, in their blue and white coats, along the D.C. Beltway........home of many accidents.
Last edited by mmarshall; 06-26-10 at 06:59 PM.
06-26-10, 07:55 PM
#92
Folks, real simple. PERCEPTION IS REALITY! Has been for a very long time. Perception=image. Get it? You can toss out every expert opinion, calculation, etc you want. Just Google the accident and read up. Perception has changed the course of nations including ours and there is simply nothing you can do about it. A $375,000 car vs a $45k 3 series and the LF-A suffers the fatality and more damage-this is the bottom line for many. Even if the accident report states he died of a non accident related event, this will not change the minds of the majority of those in the car world. We may not agree with it, but it is true.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 06-26-10 at 08:52 PM.
06-26-10, 09:07 PM
#93
Lexus Champion
Folks, real simple. PERCEPTION IS REALITY! Has been for a very long time. Perception=image. Get it? You can toss out every expert opinion, calculation, etc you want. Just Google the accident and read up. Perception has changed the course of nations including ours and there is simply nothing you can do about it. A $375,000 car vs a $45k 3 series and the LF-A suffers the fatality and more damage-this is the bottom line for many. Even if the accident report states he died of a non accident related event, this will not change the minds of the majority of those in the car world. We may not agree with it, but it is true.
You don't know any of those answers, so until you and those who perceive know, I abolish all of those claims you just stated.
06-26-10, 09:28 PM
#94
So you have seen the reports from both companies? You've seen pictures and details of the speed of the crash? You've seen pictures that show evidence that the LFA has more damage than the BMW? Because I don't see how you or anyone else in the media which is your claimed 'perception point', know any of those details. Why did Naruse die? Did he die before or during the crash? Did he or the BMW driver swerve to avoid the other? What was the speed each vehicle was traveling?
You don't know any of those answers, so until you and those who perceive know, I abolish all of those claims you just stated.
You don't know any of those answers, so until you and those who perceive know, I abolish all of those claims you just stated.
That gave me a smile. Seriously, whether you want to believe or not, Google. Are many of the comments incorrect IMO, sure, but....again, haters and perception.
Probably the best post on the Bimmer forums.
Here is a list of the safest cars for 2010 from the institute for highway safety.
Note the lack of any BMW models.
I think in a crash like that it is strcitly a matter of luck who survives and who doesn't. I think it is highly likely that the Toyota test driver blacked out, had a stoke, heart attack or some other serious health issue.
I happen to think BMWs are very safe cars (wouldn't own one if I didn't) but the bottom line is that most modern cars are safe.
The 27 winners, by category, are:
Large cars
Buick LaCrosse
Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Volvo S80
Midsize cars
Audi A3
Chevrolet Malibu built after October 2009
Chrysler Sebring 4-door with optional electronic stability control
Dodge Avenger with optional electronic stability control
Mercedes C class
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Volkswagen Jetta sedan
Volkswagen Passat sedan
Volvo C30
Small cars
Honda Civic 4-door models (except Si) with optional electronic stability control
Kia Soul
Nissan Cube
Subaru Impreza except WRX
Volkswagen Golf 4-door
Midsize SUVs
Dodge Journey
Subaru Tribeca
Volvo XC60
Volvo XC90
Small SUVs
Honda Element
Jeep Patriot with optional side torso airbags
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan
Note the lack of any BMW models.
I think in a crash like that it is strcitly a matter of luck who survives and who doesn't. I think it is highly likely that the Toyota test driver blacked out, had a stoke, heart attack or some other serious health issue.
I happen to think BMWs are very safe cars (wouldn't own one if I didn't) but the bottom line is that most modern cars are safe.
The 27 winners, by category, are:
Large cars
Buick LaCrosse
Ford Taurus
Lincoln MKS
Volvo S80
Midsize cars
Audi A3
Chevrolet Malibu built after October 2009
Chrysler Sebring 4-door with optional electronic stability control
Dodge Avenger with optional electronic stability control
Mercedes C class
Subaru Legacy
Subaru Outback
Volkswagen Jetta sedan
Volkswagen Passat sedan
Volvo C30
Small cars
Honda Civic 4-door models (except Si) with optional electronic stability control
Kia Soul
Nissan Cube
Subaru Impreza except WRX
Volkswagen Golf 4-door
Midsize SUVs
Dodge Journey
Subaru Tribeca
Volvo XC60
Volvo XC90
Small SUVs
Honda Element
Jeep Patriot with optional side torso airbags
Subaru Forester
Volkswagen Tiguan
Last edited by Pearlpower; 06-26-10 at 09:45 PM.
06-26-10, 09:37 PM
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for showing everyone your true colors.
I am stunned at the lengths people will go through to bash the LFA. It is beyond pathetic so called "enthusiasts" continue to beat up the first true supercar exotic from Japan and are now using this incident as fuel for their desire to see the car fail.
Last edited by DaveGS4; 06-27-10 at 07:29 AM.
06-26-10, 09:41 PM
#96
Why have both threads on the same subject then.
The topic came up and I am participating the same as you. If you have a valid point, post it. Is that not what this is about? It is not about the bashing of the LF-A, my points are posted on the matter. If you cannot look beyond the obvious, that is not my concern. My true colors? Yeah, OK.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 06-26-10 at 09:46 PM.
06-26-10, 09:48 PM
#97
Lexus Champion
Your points are biased against the LFA when no one has any idea of what the actual damage to both vehicles were. According to pictures the front bumper came off the LFA. The front of the BMW was crushed as well. To me and a lot of others it looked like any other car crash, bent body work, airbags deployed. There didn't look to be any more damage done to the LFA than the BMW. Regardless of how injured the BMW drivers are this thread is about Naruse passing, before or after the crash. The other thread is dedicated to Naruse.
06-26-10, 09:49 PM
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Actually Mike we have a sticky devoted to him, do we not?
Why have both threads on the same subject then?
The topic came up and I am participating the same as you. If you have a valid point, post it. Is that not what this is about? It is not about the bashing of the LF-A, my points are posted on the matter. If you cannot look beyond the obvious, that is not my concern.
Why have both threads on the same subject then?
The topic came up and I am participating the same as you. If you have a valid point, post it. Is that not what this is about? It is not about the bashing of the LF-A, my points are posted on the matter. If you cannot look beyond the obvious, that is not my concern.
If Walter Rohl had passed in a CGT people would praise Walter for being a hero and the CGT disintegrated and saved the people in the BMW
. No its a Lexus LFA and its the worst car ever to have crashed and to hell with the man inside that died. Exotics get wrecked ALL THE TIME and people sadly die in them all the time. However since this is not a German/Italian car some people want to leverage the car sucks.
The opposite will happen, it will only add to its legend. You are here posting links to other forums to prove a point about a bunch of people that hate Lexus and the LFA anyway?
Who cares what they think.
06-26-10, 09:49 PM
#99
The is the first LFA crashed on a public accessed highway. If there is any other crash data to support the LFA design, it is not known. Until the data is known how the LFA crashes in a controlled scenario, the discussion is academic. At this point it is a circular discussion. No matter how many other cars we've seen crashed, it is not relevant because it was not the LFA.
06-26-10, 09:53 PM
#100
All I see is another sad instance of coming to German superiority at any chance and using it in this thread is a very low tactic.
If Walter Rohl had passed in a CGT people would praise Walter for being a hero and the CGT disintegrated and saved the people in the BMW. No its a Lexus LFA and its the worst car ever to have crashed and to hell with the man inside that died.
Exotics get wrecked ALL THE TIME and people sadly die in them all the time. However since this is not a German/Italian car some people want to leverage the car sucks.
The opposite will happen, it will only add to its legend. You are here posting links to other forums to prove a point about a bunch of people that hate Lexus and the LFA anyway? Who cares what they think.
If Walter Rohl had passed in a CGT people would praise Walter for being a hero and the CGT disintegrated and saved the people in the BMW
. No its a Lexus LFA and its the worst car ever to have crashed and to hell with the man inside that died. Exotics get wrecked ALL THE TIME and people sadly die in them all the time. However since this is not a German/Italian car some people want to leverage the car sucks.
The opposite will happen, it will only add to its legend. You are here posting links to other forums to prove a point about a bunch of people that hate Lexus and the LFA anyway?
Who cares what they think.Does this mean I would not take an LF-A in a heartbeat provided I could afford it, nope. Do I believe the LF-A to be safe, yes I do just the same as I have with every Lexus I have owned and explains why my family drive around in a GX.
I look forward to the final report as well. My point is that beyond just haters which there are plenty, the front page headline sticks in peoples minds. We both know of the truths and inaccuracies of the entire Toyota safety debacle and how it could have been handled better as the perception was far more damaging than truth.
I deleted the links as your correct in pointing out we do not need the links to hate messages.
Last edited by Pearlpower; 06-26-10 at 10:04 PM.
06-27-10, 03:47 AM
#101
Lexus Connoisseur
Folks, real simple. PERCEPTION IS REALITY! Has been for a very long time. Perception=image. Get it? You can toss out every expert opinion, calculation, etc you want. Just Google the accident and read up. Perception has changed the course of nations including ours and there is simply nothing you can do about it. A $375,000 car vs a $45k 3 series and the LF-A suffers the fatality and more damage-this is the bottom line for many. Even if the accident report states he died of a non accident related event, this will not change the minds of the majority of those in the car world. We may not agree with it, but it is true.
per·cep·tion [per-sep-shuhn] –noun
1. the act or faculty of apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding.
One's perception is not reality for everyone, period. The problem with society is that negatives always outweigh the positives. In this case, everyone has formulated their opinion by looking at pictures, and ONLY distant pictures of the accident. No one here is qualified to say that the BMW is structurally greater than the LFA, especially saying how the pictures portray the scene. Perception is not the truth because everyone perceives things based on their own knowledge and expertise. Now the question is, how pertinent is their knowledge to this particular subject matter? I'm betting most perceptions of this subject matter are merely limited to Google and forum research. There are many variables to why these cars sustained the damage they did and to why there was an unfortunate fatal outcome.
06-27-10, 05:59 AM
#102
Lead Lap
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ontario
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Exotics get wrecked ALL THE TIME and people sadly die in them all the time. However since this is not a German/Italian car some people want to leverage the car sucks.
The opposite will happen, it will only add to its legend. You are here posting links to other forums to prove a point about a bunch of people that hate Lexus and the LFA anyway? Who cares what they think.
Exotics get wrecked ALL THE TIME and people sadly die in them all the time. However since this is not a German/Italian car some people want to leverage the car sucks.
The opposite will happen, it will only add to its legend. You are here posting links to other forums to prove a point about a bunch of people that hate Lexus and the LFA anyway?
Who cares what they think.From reading about his credentials, I have nothing but respect for the man, and even more so for his latest creation, my favorite supercar, the LFA.
While I can't speak for the other 499 LFA buyers, this event has not affected my decision on the acquisition of one. In fact, I believe that 1SICKLEX is correct in his quote above.
Last but not least, when it's your turn, the man upstairs would bring you back whether you're in an LFA, BMW or a battle tank. Just live and enjoy life to the fullest.
06-27-10, 07:38 AM
#103
I apologize if I got this thread heading in an unintended direction.
Let's try this.
Imagine you are Akio Toyoda.
You signed off on the LFA program and are working toward building a strong performance segment in your product line (cars and accessories).
You have had an tough year in terms of managing perceptions due to recalls and these recalls just keep coming (HS250 this week).
Now you lose your number one test driver in a tragic accident while testing the LFA.
What I am saying here is Mr. Toyoda is going to look long and hard before releasing the car and this will mean more work and a delay.
Let's try this.
Imagine you are Akio Toyoda.
You signed off on the LFA program and are working toward building a strong performance segment in your product line (cars and accessories).
You have had an tough year in terms of managing perceptions due to recalls and these recalls just keep coming (HS250 this week).
Now you lose your number one test driver in a tragic accident while testing the LFA.
What I am saying here is Mr. Toyoda is going to look long and hard before releasing the car and this will mean more work and a delay.
06-27-10, 09:28 AM
#104
Lead Lap
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ontario
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I apologize if I got this thread heading in an unintended direction.
Let's try this.
Imagine you are Akio Toyoda.
You signed off on the LFA program and are working toward building a strong performance segment in your product line (cars and accessories).
You have had an tough year in terms of managing perceptions due to recalls and these recalls just keep coming (HS250 this week).
Now you lose your number one test driver in a tragic accident while testing the LFA.
What I am saying here is Mr. Toyoda is going to look long and hard before releasing the car and this will mean more work and a delay.
Let's try this.
Imagine you are Akio Toyoda.
You signed off on the LFA program and are working toward building a strong performance segment in your product line (cars and accessories).
You have had an tough year in terms of managing perceptions due to recalls and these recalls just keep coming (HS250 this week).
Now you lose your number one test driver in a tragic accident while testing the LFA.
What I am saying here is Mr. Toyoda is going to look long and hard before releasing the car and this will mean more work and a delay.
I may even change my red color selection to something more unique.
06-27-10, 11:17 AM
#105
Lexus Connoisseur
I apologize if I got this thread heading in an unintended direction.
Let's try this.
Imagine you are Akio Toyoda.
You signed off on the LFA program and are working toward building a strong performance segment in your product line (cars and accessories).
You have had an tough year in terms of managing perceptions due to recalls and these recalls just keep coming (HS250 this week).
Now you lose your number one test driver in a tragic accident while testing the LFA.
What I am saying here is Mr. Toyoda is going to look long and hard before releasing the car and this will mean more work and a delay.
Let's try this.
Imagine you are Akio Toyoda.
You signed off on the LFA program and are working toward building a strong performance segment in your product line (cars and accessories).
You have had an tough year in terms of managing perceptions due to recalls and these recalls just keep coming (HS250 this week).
Now you lose your number one test driver in a tragic accident while testing the LFA.
What I am saying here is Mr. Toyoda is going to look long and hard before releasing the car and this will mean more work and a delay.