Chief Toyota test driver killed in LFA wreck
06-27-10, 11:44 AM
#106
I don't think "perception" will be a problem for the LFA. It isnt a mass produced car, and I full expect *ALL* of LFA buyers to be informed and knowledgeable people, who wont jump into baseless conclusions. They aren't going to be a bunch of trolls from Honda or BMW boards.
06-28-10, 07:40 PM
#108
06-30-10, 03:29 PM
#109
Lexus Champion
I will tell you why the need for airbags in roadcars as opposed racecars. B/c of the 5 and 6 point safety harness. These have been designed and tested and as a result they are one of the most important aspects of keeping the occupant safe. With these harnesses there is no need for airbags and this would also be the same conclusion in a road car, but obviously they are not feasible in road cars and for good reason, I mean who has a rollcage in their road car and an emergency team on standby to assist the occupants exit the car when they have difficulty taking these harnesses off?
I know you don't think a sash belt is as good as a well constructed 5 safety harness, or do you?
06-30-10, 04:36 PM
#110
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
It is hard to believe you are involved in racing.
I will tell you why the need for airbags in roadcars as opposed racecars. B/c of the 5 and 6 point safety harness. These have been designed and tested and as a result they are one of the most important aspects of keeping the occupant safe. With these harnesses there is no need for airbags and this would also be the same conclusion in a road car, but obviously they are not feasible in road cars and for good reason, I mean who has a rollcage in their road car and an emergency team on standby to assist the occupants exit the car when they have difficulty taking these harnesses off?
I know you don't think a sash belt is as good as a well constructed 5 safety harness, or do you?
I will tell you why the need for airbags in roadcars as opposed racecars. B/c of the 5 and 6 point safety harness. These have been designed and tested and as a result they are one of the most important aspects of keeping the occupant safe. With these harnesses there is no need for airbags and this would also be the same conclusion in a road car, but obviously they are not feasible in road cars and for good reason, I mean who has a rollcage in their road car and an emergency team on standby to assist the occupants exit the car when they have difficulty taking these harnesses off?
I know you don't think a sash belt is as good as a well constructed 5 safety harness, or do you?
The roll cage is a non-player in this discussion. It's just structural enhancement to ensure there is a large enough space for the driver to live in very high speed collisions. Airbags do nothing to replicate what a roll cage or a safety crew does. If you really think unaided egress is actually easier with deployed airbags, you really need to see a wrecked car up close, especially one with side airbags.
Sorry, I just don't buy it, and I won't ever. If safety were so important the US would have much stricter licensing standards, not ridiculously overweight cars with thousands of dollars worth of devices designed to hit you in the event of an impact. We've had this discussion before anyway, you already know where I stand and why.
06-30-10, 05:28 PM
#111
Lexus Champion
Makes no sense. Multipoint harnesses are necessary because the speeds are much higher and the load needs to be spread out over a larger body surface area than a three point harness. They still don't prevent the driver's head, arms, and legs from bouncing around in the car (the reason for the helmet, arm, and leg straps) which could easily be contained by airbags if they actually did something useful. But they don't. They ADD energy to a collision. The energy they add breaks arms, legs, wrists, noses - anything they hit - routinely. It has been well documented.
The roll cage is a non-player in this discussion. It's just structural enhancement to ensure there is a large enough space for the driver to live in very high speed collisions. Airbags do nothing to replicate what a roll cage or a safety crew does. If you really think unaided egress is actually easier with deployed airbags, you really need to see a wrecked car up close, especially one with side airbags.
Sorry, I just don't buy it, and I won't ever. If safety were so important the US would have much stricter licensing standards, not ridiculously overweight cars with thousands of dollars worth of devices designed to hit you in the event of an impact. We've had this discussion before anyway, you already know where I stand and why.
The roll cage is a non-player in this discussion. It's just structural enhancement to ensure there is a large enough space for the driver to live in very high speed collisions. Airbags do nothing to replicate what a roll cage or a safety crew does. If you really think unaided egress is actually easier with deployed airbags, you really need to see a wrecked car up close, especially one with side airbags.
Sorry, I just don't buy it, and I won't ever. If safety were so important the US would have much stricter licensing standards, not ridiculously overweight cars with thousands of dollars worth of devices designed to hit you in the event of an impact. We've had this discussion before anyway, you already know where I stand and why.
It is assumed that a race car driver with a 5-6 point safety harness is going to be wearing a helmet, neck brace and any other of the safety devices needed for that particular motor sport. That being said, nothing can stop loose arms and legs in a race car or a road car and you even bringing that up shows your lack of understanding for the reason airbags are implemented.
Airbags are there to help prevent head, neck, and chest injuries, not arms and legs. And on top of that they are designed to be used in conjunction with seatbelts so that the belt can slow your bodies momentum just slightly so you DON'T meet with the airbag when it is inflating and if you properly secure yourself in a car with you belt this will be avoided. And it has also been documented as how seatbelts cause life threating injuries, but again I see you are conveniently leaving that out. Everything has dangers and if there was a completely fail safe method car companies would be using it, as it stands there is not.
Honestly though, are re-reading what you are writing? Rollcages are there to uphold the integrity of the car and they themselves are a danger b/c if a driver head was to strike it. This is the reason for the helmets, should I go on. And you said it yourself, airbags add weight to the car, does this matter for a race car? Do you just throw your logic out the window on the discussion for airbags? B/c everything else you write is quite logical and well thought through...
What I can't understand is why you are trying to compare a road car to race car, we may as well be talking about the safety of a boat and a road car they are that different. A road car is no where near as safe as a race car when all safety measures are adhered to and due to different environment with a whole different set of distractions that a road driver has to attend to is why different methods of safety is employed and if you can't see that, there really is nothing mopre to say. If we where all just able to drive forward and have no side streets or pedestrians ect to watch out for then maybe we could all use 5-6 point safety harnesses with helmets ect and then there would be no need for airbags. What world are you living in again?
06-30-10, 05:41 PM
#112
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
Dave, lobux - let's take the airbag discussion to PM please
08-25-10, 02:25 PM
#117
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This video has more angles and details than the video that was first posted. Can't understand what they're saying though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C28PvY3sRgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C28PvY3sRgA
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