05RollaXRS

I had been eagerly looking forward to sport auto super test video and found this teaser video with some incredible footage of LFA lap by sport auto around Nurburgring.

If anyone knows German, can someone summarize what it says in the video?

http://www.sportauto-online.de/video...d=260731896001

Right now, all I know is they gave LFA 5/5 stars

So should we start our predictions on how quick LFA ran around Nordchliefe??

My guess is 7:21 - 7:24 with the same driver running all other laps Horst von saurma.

I just read Sport Auto lapped the 458 Italia around Nurburgring in 7:38, which is about as fast a ZR-1 and GTR, but slower than the Porsche 997.2 911 GT3 RS.

Just go give you an idea on where other cars stand:

RRocket

^^Those times for the GT-R and ZR-1 are old. They've both gone back and run 7:26.4 (ZR-1) and 7:26.7 (GT-R).

05RollaXRS

No those were not run by SportAuto (or any independent publication, for that fact). Only one supertest per car is conducted unless there are significant updates to the car (R8 V8 and then R8 V10).

Those were mere manufacturer claims of best runs. In real world, no one has ever come close to those numbers on a production model. I checked the full sport auto list.

SportAuto lap times are always hailed as the closest real world numbers as possible.

someboy

iTrader: (6)

that lap time and this price...it is depressing...

Mister Two

Just because no one has ever come close to manufacturers' claimed best runs doesn't mean the claims are any less real than SportAuto's runs. It shouldn't be surprising that only the manufacturers themselves have drivers that are most familiar with the vehicle dynamics and driving limits of their cars, having put so many hours into testing them. And only the manufacturers have the resource to keep on trying and trying until they think they get the absolute best of the car. The test driver of a magazine only has at most a day to get familiar with the car AND do the best lap time he can in whatever the condition the track happens to be on that day. Obviously the result won't be nearly as good as the manufacturer's best run.

05RollaXRS

Hence the real world numbers are more relevant since non-manufacturer drivers will never be able to replicate those numbers.

That is why Porsche numbers are always repeatedly replicated in real world since they never go after marketing a car based on its lap time. For instance, Porsche Carrera GT manufacturer claim was 7:32 by Walter Rohrl while it was repeatedly replicated and the best time ran by an independent race car driver was 7:26.

Conversely, manufacturers can also modify the car to get better lap times for marketing purposes.

Mister Two

Well best run is best run. Doesn't matter who runs it. The Porsche GT's best time happens to come from an independent race driver. So be it. Repeatedly running a car enough times by drivers of different capabilities under different conditions, the best time of them all will ultimately represent what the car is capable of, not what a specific driver can do for a specific car.

RRocket

The ZR-1 and GT-R runs were not "claims". They are both on video and have been validated as real runs. It's not our fault AutoSport uses slower drivers...

In both the ZR-1 and GT-Rs case, neither car was modified, save for safety and video equipment.

TF109B

I remember hearing of the GTR lap time and heard it was done with non-spec tires, or semi-slicks. The ZR1 was shown in a video but the tires could have been non-spec semi slicks as well. Independent sources are closer to reality in my book than some of the 'manufacturer' claims.

RRocket

Both of those claims were untrue. Nissan HAD tweaked the car a bit for their 7:29 lap (all they had at that time was the JDM rubber). Which is why they went back and did the 7:26 time un-tweaked...with video. The ZR-1 was also on stock rubber.

Oh..and if it makes you feel any better, an independent source did confirm the GT-R lap time. It was another magazine...Best Motoring from Japan.

TF109B

And what's your point? The same magazine said the prototype LFA's were doing 7:24's. This thread is about the LFA and you wanna talk about the ZR1 and GTR? Why? We know their lap times, what's the LFA's?

05RollaXRS

That is the thing.

I differ in my opinion. If they cannot be replicated by professional race car drivers in real world. They mean absolutely nothing. They are merely factory marketing hype trying too hard to prove something.

I DON'T believe those times are run on a stock production car that can be taken randomly off the streets, but modfied to run the fastest lap on that particular track (in this case Nurburgring, which favors a particular suspension type, tires). Yet, on the production model, which caters to every day driving, emissions, different track conditions, they are not the same.

In short, I do not buy every ludicrous claim the manufacturers try to sell just to get the attention and get the hype. They need to be independently replicated and verified in real world.

That is just my own thinking. Horst Van Saurma is one of the most well respected professional driver who has spent more time on Nurburgring than most pro drivers. He drives every single car. It just does not get anymore apples to apples than this.

07grIS350

The video looks awesome, and I can't wait for the test one with result.

Regarding lap time:
Manufacturer lap times are good for marketing, but not for comparing cars. I believe the Super Tests try to eliminate a bunch of variables that could affect lap time such as driver, and weather conditions. So the only big variable here is the tests being conducted on different dates. IMO this would be a better indicator of relative performance of the tested supercars.

RRocket

I'll wait for Toyota's "official" Nurburgring lap times for the LF-A. Why? Because many people like me take the absolute fastest time as "THE" time to beat around the Ring. So if AutoSport does it in say....7:25, then we'll never here the end of it from *******s saying "See, the $375,000 LF-A is slower than a GT-R and ZR-1".

Trust me...I want the LF-A to lay down the most *** kicking-est lap EVER. I was truly disappointed the day Top Gear tested it around a wet track.

I'm confident with a pro driver, the LF-A can put down low 7:20s (or better?) at the Ring...

FWIW, another magazine (Holiday Auto) has confirmed the LF-A has already done a 7:24 at the 'Ring.....

05RollaXRS

I agree. We saw that with the 1/4 mile race where LFA without launch control and clutch drop ran an 11.8 secs, which is only as quick as a 435 HP GT3 with similar weight. I wish they put launch control in the prototypes.

I want Lexus to come out and officially claim the 7:19 the chief engineer has responded with in the press. Atleast, that will prove what LFA is capable of.

It needs to be that quick to justify one of the best supercars ever and truly a $400,000 supercar.