TommyJames

Yea, I think there is a bit of brand stigma to overcome. This brings up an interesting point how exotics are actually sold. Most people are under the impression that exotics are sold like daily drivers. That it's Consumer Reports, dealer specials, magazines, ads that sell cars. It's not how it works with exotics.

Most exotics are sold through opinion leaders within the group itself. One guy talks to another Ferrari owner, he gets his buddy to buy one, a social circle begins and grows, and over time opinion leaders begin to shape the group and the direction of interest. Many exotic owners have more than one car so the group spreads to other brands, but the opinion leaders remain. This is why Ferrari and Lamborghini do so little advertising. They know that cars are best sold through brand events.

If I were Lexus launching the LFA for the first time, the very thing I would have done is put it in the hands of the opinion leaders who owned more than one brand and let them drive it on the street, not just the track. Let them spread the word. They are now taking it to events where those opinion leaders are likely to hang out, but only in a static display. BIG mistake. To make that connection, they have to put it in the hands of those guys who are brand agnostic because otherwise they will hate it no matter what. The last guy to hand it to, is someone who's got a dozen Ferraris and nothing else. Look for those with a mixed stable who will consider any car. Those mixed stables are the owners with the willingness to consider any car and will be the ones who will spread the word the most.

I'm one of those guys who talks to opinion leaders before I buy something. I spoke with a lot of exotic owners before I bought my first one, and even more when I bought my second and my third. This is where Lexus was arrogant because they somehow thought that "interest" equals "sales" and it does't in the exotic world. Believe me, in the exotic world you will see dozens and dozens of people claiming they are going to buy something exotic only to have some reason at the last minute not to close on the sale. It comes with the territory. Yet, that doesn't happen within the EXISTING exotic community so much. There, if they say they are going to buy something, they have some history to go with it.

TommyJames

Are you paying attention to the age of the drivers so far? It explains why owners aren't on the forums. Old guys, don't go on forums much.

Also, no sweat because if there are cars floating around, nothing that I can see stops a guy from getting a surrogate buyer to bring an LFA up to Canada.

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

The whole notion that you have to be part of a car club to enjoy a car is pretty stupid. Opinion leaders are the reason why there are brand snobs. What's so hard about building a relationship with a dealership, going for a test drive, or buying what YOU want? You are buying the car for you and not for anyone else. Not all exotic car owners are part of these elite group of so called, enthusiasts. I know a few myself that would rather remain private and at most, hit up local car shows. It's best to do without these "clubs."

07grIS350

+100
The last thing I'd need is someone telling me how to enjoy my hobbies. I am sure I am not the only LFA buyer feeling this way.

TommyJames

You're 100% right, but it's still not how it happens for the most part, but it does happen. You can certainly go out and do all that, just as you said, but after you've driven the car a few times on weekends, you start to get a little bored, soon you're wondering why you have so much money tied up in a car you never drive and the next thing you know it's sold, you lost money and you're pissed that you spent that much per mile. Someone else steps in, buys the car through their buddy who is an opinion leader who then welcomes that guy to join them on drives, events, shows, dinners where they talk cars, and that guy is happy because he got the car cheap, and he's having the most fun.

TommyJames

Nobody is telling you to do anything, are they?

When you get your car and go driving all by your lonesome, after a while, chance are very good, and the stats are all there, that you will get bored and simply stop driving your car. It's rare that people keep expensive toys they don't use or enjoy. What, the ten of you LFA owners stretched across Canada will get together every weekend? Hardly. If you really want to enjoy your LFA, plug yourself into the local exotic community. You will be welcomed. Some will be brand snobs, but sounds like you're one too, so you already have something in common. That's a start. You then pick a destination and go have fun driving there. They will then share pictures and video of you driving your car, having fun and chances are you will find you have a lot more in common than you thought.

07grIS350

I believe this is no accurate, guys are guys just go to fishing/golfing forums to see for yourself. I am pretty sure it's no different in car forums.
The two LFA buyers I've met are no where to be found on any popular US/Canadian forums, and they don't look a day into their 50's.
I think there is very strong possibility that Lexus has hit a pocket of buyers that is not your typical exotic owners. Just look at us two on CL, I think Gengar has said that he looked high and low at F and P cars for years but never managed to pull the trigger; myself, the only way I'd buy these exotics is with free money i.e. lottery winning or something like that.
I would not be surprise if there're US LFA's ending up in Canada now that the costs to buy one are about the same. The currency gain is nagating the 6% import duty.

TommyJames

I suggest that anyone who's considering anything as a second "fun" car, regardless of how exotic, look at the turnover rate of the car. You will begin to notice a very distinct pattern. Cars that plug into an enthusiasts community remain in the community longer and they command higher resale. Why, because they often change hands within the community. "Sport" cars (not to be confused with "sports cars" which is a style) not in a community often aren't used as often, undervalued and are most likely to be dumped at a lower price.

TommyJames

Average age for all sports cars priced in the $400k range is going to be in the high 50s to low 60s. It's just the facts, no matter what brand. They are usually the guys with the disposable money. Sorry to burst the fantasy. The odd thing is that RR has a much lower average age, by ten years. You'd think it would be the opposite. Why is that? Because often the Phantom owner doesn't have as many cars so he's still spending less overall on cars. I've not yet met a NEW SV owner who's not in his 50s or older. Correction, I met one, he's one of a Middle Eastern royal family.

LexFather

Yes but again the LFA is something different. This is not the usual status quo car from Europe. The LFA might be one of the truer "car guy" vehicles since its on par with exotics but from Lexus of all brands. Then its not priced cheaper to sell, the car is priced based on its merits.

It takes a true car nut to buy a LFA, period. While Lexus does have some badge power as a Luxury brand it has none as an exotic brand. We have seen over and over again people high and low stick up their nose at the car b/c its a "Lexus". Most don't even care to truly learn about the car, they bash it and have no intentions of liking it or buying it. Hammond makes a point at the end of his Top Gear review, its just hard to overcome the fact this is a "Lexus" the brand most known for quality/quiet/luxury.

From what we have seen, read LFA buyers so far seem to be not the traditional exotic buyer. There are many that are long time Toyota/Lexus owners who have made it in their lives where they can make this purchase. There were over 1100 serious interest customers in the car but when it comes time to write the check it seems some are backing out.

Again the LFA is also being launched in a still crappy economic environment. Not blaming that point but it is the reality of things.

I simply don't think we can totally base previous experience as a predictor for the LFA. Partially but not completely. It is just too different.

Everyone rewind the clock to 1989 when the LS debuted. Sound familiar?

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps in your community car resale is high, but a quick look at ebay will show that none of these Euro exotics hold their value the least bit, minus the exceptions. Murcielago, Phantom, SLR prices have PLUMMETED to embarrassing levels. If the whole point of car club membership is to inflate market value and demean other brands, count me out. I don't need to be around a bunch of big headed group of people driving around like their sXXX don't stink. To me they're not enthusiasts. Just guys with an image problem who will easily dump their cars to get into the latest and greatest at the moment. No different than a playboy with commitment issues.

TommyJames

You're exactly right about the LS debut. I remember those days well and the bashing the car took from the owners of other brands who didn't think it was even possible. Early adopters were Toyota and American car owners coming from other brands. I came over from Acura when I replaced my Legend. I'd have been an early adopter too, but I just couldn't afford it. Still, it took a while for the brand to get the respect and even now it's still fighting a Japanese stigma. I think Lexus is attacking it the right way, from young buyers on up, but it will still take time. Look at what Cadillac has gone through over the years when they suddenly realized all their customer base were living in retirement homes eating mashed potatoes and drooling over wheelchairs.

05RollaXRS

I thought you knew. But, I will explain it anyway. It is a nightmare to import into Canada. You have to be in Canada to realize how much of a pain it is to import regular joe cars from America to Canada. Let alone exotics. I know a couple of people who imported American cars into Canada ( a Honda Oddyssey and Subaru Forrester) and they both don't recommend it to anyone since they found it to be a nightmare. The Oddyssey was only 1 year old and Honda has been giving him problems all the time when something needs to be fixed.

The Canadian dealerships do these things according to them to "protect their businesses".

Since now Canadian dollar is a bit stronger than the US dollar, in times like these people explore buying brand new cars from the US and bringing it to Canada. However, the brands and dealerships have made it increasingly difficult to import American cars into Canada. One of the biggest thing is the warranty issues. The Canadian cars are a bit different than US cars so they need to be inspected and modified to be street legal here in Canada etc.

At the end of the day, the amount of hassle and money it takes to bring brand new cars from the US to Canada, the trend has been on an increasing decline.

TommyJames

I've been telling you all along that the exotic market is soft, and I've explained numerous times why it's soft. You then notice it's soft and draw a conclusion that isn't at all based on anything other than a projection that is far different from reality. Do you go to Cars and Coffee? Ever go to Monterey? What's all that????

TommyJames

There are multiple SV owners who bought US cars and brought them to Canada. Vancouver has a few. They bring them to the US for service and warranty is covered either way. They bring them down here because parts are cheaper. The buyer who wants my car is in your area. He'd simply truck it down for service as needed, which really isn't all that often, given how few miles go on exotics. It's a once a year event.