LFA value discussion thread
02-01-11, 12:46 PM
#211
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These days I'm wondering if we'll get a 40º+, not snowing, non-snow-covered-road day before sometime into April.
02-01-11, 12:53 PM
#212
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, it is an option and I've actually thought about it because I'm going to be making a few stops in the western US in March (including taking a day off for the LFA driving school at Infineon), but I'm going to be primarily in IL/IN for the near future so I'm going to keep it here.
02-01-11, 12:54 PM
#213
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I tend to think they are not as ignorant as we think they are, no matter how much denying. Only time will tell, but this 2011 LFA is potentially a repeat of 1989 LS400.
Agreed. Like I said before, that is just an excuse Euro snob are going to make. That is why I posted the test drive experience of the GTR tuning shop owner since it was a real world person who was objective in his rationale.
The people who have actually driven it are unanimous in their perception that it is THE most driver oriented car they have driven in a long time.
At this point, it is more than obvious LFA is one of the most driver oriented supercar in the market, has the best throttle response besides the Carrera GT with 9500 rpm in only 0.6 seconds, has the stiffest chassis and the suspension does all the work. It has no torque-vectoring electronic gizmos like 458 Italia that shifts torque side to side. Just a plain jane LSD that helps it achieve far better skidpad and slalom numbers than the 458 Italia on more slick PS2 tires and fancy torque vector cannot achieve.
Then there is the 9500 rpm rev limit and the F1 V10 sound with the 3D surround sound in the cabin through channels feeding engine and exhaust note in the cabin. Like I stated before, the chief engineer of LFA stated they worked backwards where they first decided they wanted high-revs in the 9500 rpm region and a V10 F1 racing car sound then they went backwards to figure out the number of cylinders and the displacement they need per cylinder to fill them up fast enough to achieve the highest revs as quick as possible.
If that is not passion, soul, character and purist approach, nothing is. Plain and simple.
The people who have actually driven it are unanimous in their perception that it is THE most driver oriented car they have driven in a long time.
At this point, it is more than obvious LFA is one of the most driver oriented supercar in the market, has the best throttle response besides the Carrera GT with 9500 rpm in only 0.6 seconds, has the stiffest chassis and the suspension does all the work. It has no torque-vectoring electronic gizmos like 458 Italia that shifts torque side to side. Just a plain jane LSD that helps it achieve far better skidpad and slalom numbers than the 458 Italia on more slick PS2 tires and fancy torque vector cannot achieve.
Then there is the 9500 rpm rev limit and the F1 V10 sound with the 3D surround sound in the cabin through channels feeding engine and exhaust note in the cabin. Like I stated before, the chief engineer of LFA stated they worked backwards where they first decided they wanted high-revs in the 9500 rpm region and a V10 F1 racing car sound then they went backwards to figure out the number of cylinders and the displacement they need per cylinder to fill them up fast enough to achieve the highest revs as quick as possible.
If that is not passion, soul, character and purist approach, nothing is. Plain and simple.
02-01-11, 03:01 PM
#214
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Btw the reviews and the books on the LFA, I think it's safe to say that the sound part of the soul is a done deal, with the help of Yamaha concert hall engineers.
They went as far as making the engine sounds different at the same RPM depending on whether you are up or down shifting.
They went as far as making the engine sounds different at the same RPM depending on whether you are up or down shifting.
02-01-11, 03:03 PM
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I've ridden in it but not on public roads. I think I mentioned before I had a public road drive scheduled on two occasions but had to scrap both due to weather issues. I stopped bugging Lexus about it last month - the LFAs are on very busy schedules.
That said, the carbonfiber chassis will make the ride rather stiff and unforgiving - it's not a compliant material. As far as daily driving, I'm more interested in how the transmission works (i.e., does it work like a traditional sequential, or do they introduce automatic simulation creep like on some dual clutches, etc.) - stuff I probably should have asked during the factory tour.
That said, the carbonfiber chassis will make the ride rather stiff and unforgiving - it's not a compliant material. As far as daily driving, I'm more interested in how the transmission works (i.e., does it work like a traditional sequential, or do they introduce automatic simulation creep like on some dual clutches, etc.) - stuff I probably should have asked during the factory tour.
02-01-11, 03:27 PM
#216
Lexus Connoisseur
02-01-11, 03:28 PM
#217
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02-01-11, 03:40 PM
#218
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As is implicit from my post, Lexus has given owners the chance to drive the prototypes; I just haven't been able to because weather interfered with my scheduled sessions. The reason I stopped bugging Lexus about it was that my delivery date was approaching anyway and I felt bad because the Lexus Central guys were spending so much time trying to work around the LFA schedule to get me a chance. In any case, if your point is that Lexus needs to give potential buyers test drives in order to make sales, then perhaps they shouldn't be working so hard to give committed buyers like myself test drives.
02-01-11, 03:55 PM
#219
Lexus Test Driver
This was posted earlier in this thread, but while it was on public roads there isn't anything about the "standard" driving experience.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/6109685-post153.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/6109685-post153.html
02-01-11, 04:06 PM
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This was posted earlier in this thread, but while it was on public roads there isn't anything about the "standard" driving experience.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/6109685-post153.html
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/6109685-post153.html
02-01-11, 04:19 PM
#221
Lexus Test Driver
That post makes no sense whatsoever. You are comparing a 4500 lbs GT autobahn buster with four turbos and a turbo lag the size of Germany with a car that in near stock form won the SP8 class Nurburgring 24-hours series and is as precise as a scalpel.
In some ways, the road going LFA is superior to the race track Gazoo LFA since the SP8 class required restrictors reducing power to 500 HP and weight penalties to make it fair for other cars.
When every single person who has driven it has been unanimous in saying that it is THE most driver oriented supercar today, with unmatched throttle response, unmatched chassis rigidity and raw suspension and LSD work without any fancy torque vectoring differential. The best V10 F1 racing car sound. The steering is quick, very precise and direct, that means the only concern should be if it is too extreme to drive on a daily basis or not.
The chief engineer's words are written all over it "our goal was not to make the fastest supercar on earth, but to make the most driver oriented supercar imaginable". What you keep repeating is essentially throwing the entire design and development philosophy of 10 years for the LFA out the window and pretty much what everyone who has actually driven the car unanimously says.
It has even been said to be more extreme than the Porsche Carrera GT. Again, comes from people who drove the car actually. If you are having troubles believing it is really that extreme then it is your stereotype of "Lexus cars are numb and isolated" at work.
In some ways, the road going LFA is superior to the race track Gazoo LFA since the SP8 class required restrictors reducing power to 500 HP and weight penalties to make it fair for other cars.
When every single person who has driven it has been unanimous in saying that it is THE most driver oriented supercar today, with unmatched throttle response, unmatched chassis rigidity and raw suspension and LSD work without any fancy torque vectoring differential. The best V10 F1 racing car sound. The steering is quick, very precise and direct, that means the only concern should be if it is too extreme to drive on a daily basis or not.
The chief engineer's words are written all over it "our goal was not to make the fastest supercar on earth, but to make the most driver oriented supercar imaginable". What you keep repeating is essentially throwing the entire design and development philosophy of 10 years for the LFA out the window and pretty much what everyone who has actually driven the car unanimously says.
It has even been said to be more extreme than the Porsche Carrera GT. Again, comes from people who drove the car actually. If you are having troubles believing it is really that extreme then it is your stereotype of "Lexus cars are numb and isolated" at work.
It's not just the sound of the exhaust. It's how everything comes back to the driver in the form of feedback that allows me to feel the car. This past summer Bugatti sent up the Grand Sport for me and a few others to drive and I had some decent time with the car in a variety of traffic situations and some open road. The blowers sounded terrific, the suspension is terrific, everything about the fit and finish is like a jewel in every respect. The problem was that I had to be well past 100 MPH to feel and passion coming from the car. They were so focused on refining the car that you'd be flying down the road and not know it. Ultimately it was the same experience as I'd have if I were doing the exact same thing with the LS, except for the blowers and how it managed the curves. In a straight line the two were similar. When I got back into my SV, it felt crude and austere, yet I got so much feedback that it immediately brought the grin back on my face. I want to like the LFA when I drive it, my one concern will be a lack of feedback and that's what I'll be looking for the most.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 02-01-11 at 05:08 PM.
02-01-11, 04:33 PM
#222
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Tommy, appreciate the feedback. I really do. It just boggles my mind how this car can easily be overlooked by members in your car club given all the information out there about it. All it takes is a bit of research and given that, it should readily "fit in" with the criteria that people like yourself passionately share. Instead of looking at static numerical figures and future worth, look at the story. The story is what sold it to me. The car deserves recognition and a spot in automotive history. Yes, it's that special!
02-01-11, 05:01 PM
#223
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It's not just the sound of the exhaust. It's how everything comes back to the driver in the form of feedback that allows me to feel the car. This past summer Bugatti sent up the Grand Sport for me and a few others to drive and I had some decent time with the car in a variety of traffic situations and some open road. The blowers sounded terrific, the suspension is terrific, everything about the fit and finish is like a jewel in every respect. The problem was that I had to be well past 100 MPH to feel and passion coming from the car. They were so focused on refining the car that you'd be flying down the road and not know it. Ultimately it was the same experience as I'd have if I were doing the exact same thing with the LS, except for the blowers and how it managed the curves. In a straight line the two were similar. When I got back into my SV, it felt crude and austere, yet I got so much feedback that it immediately brought the grin back on my face. I want to like the LFA when I drive it, my one concern will be a lack of feedback and that's what I'll be looking for the most.
02-01-11, 06:00 PM
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Guys, please calm down. Everyone looks for different things in cars. It's why some are willing to pay $2 million for a Bugatti, others even more for a classic while others won't pay $80k for a different experience than their grocery getter. The exotic owners I know who hang around with for the most part are brand agnostic a heck of a lot more than you are here. You're the ones calling them Euro-snobs simply because they don't appreciate the LFA. Seriously? Wow! Who are you??? Aren't you just as much a snob??? Should I not enjoy their company simply because they don't like the LS? I don't like Mercedes, so what? Does that make me a snob too??? We all go for different things in cars. You can quote all the publications you want, you can show me all the data, but there is no replacement for seat time and the opinion of someone who's tossed down some hard earned money for something they believe in, who actually puts miles on their cars and can jump in something else and tell me things the magazines don't cover. In my experience, I've learned 10X more in talking to owners of exotics than I ever will in any magazine anywhere. Sorry, but it's my honest experience and it's been the most reliable data I've found yet.
02-01-11, 06:14 PM
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Rolls Royce has similar PR. Watch the same National Geographic segment on that, then do the math. They claim each car takes something like three months to build, then they talk about the number of cars built per year and if you do the match, the buildings aren't close to big enough to house the required floor space for a three month build cycle. What's probably the truth is that it can take up to three months for a custom car, or that it takes that long from paperwork to finished car, but there is no way to make the math work and fit in their factory. It's why I try and come to the forums, talk to as many people as I can, toss out the bull**** when I hear it, and try and get to the reality of any car. Fluff doesn't go far with me.
I went to the Lamborghini factory and I watched the assembly line very closely. I was with Winkelmann himself and I carefully studied the process and asked a lot of questions. That's in part what made the car real. I knew where to look to see someone's hand work and all of that mattered to me.