TommyJames

Bellevue said they are getting their LFA in February, (black car) I don't know about the second one, but that sounded soon. I couldn't tell if they were feeling me out for my interest in something soon. My focus was really on the LS when they pitched me.

TommyJames

You only see this as a conversation either for or against the LFA, I see this as what is or isn't the truth. Sorry if I don't write what you like to hear.

TommyJames

The NSX did almost nothing for Acura. Wow, this dates me, but I remember when Acura launched around the same time as Lexus and the whole idea was that the two were going to compete with slightly different price points, that somehow the Legend series was priced in the high $30s when the LS was in the low $40s. I bought a new Legend back then but I really wanted a Lexus but couldn't afford one. That Legend was my first new car ever. The the NSX was going to give Acura that perceived edge in overall value. Fast forward almost twenty-five years later and the two brands have long distanced themselves apart is perceived value.

Yes, if you love the car and fully understand what you're getting into, you will have the most fun with any exotic, including the LFA. If you go in with different expectations than actual, you will have a frustrating time.

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Like I said, hovering over the same thing to the same group of people that can't provide you any answers is redundant. If you're seeking truth, why don't you take it up to your insider pals?

You bring the same things up in every LFA thread, might as well start your own thread so we can keep count and drink a beer every time you do it.

gengar

These are likely customer units, not dealer units.

TommyJames

The dealer is the "customer" however that works.

05RollaXRS

Geez! NSX did nothing for Honda? Way to marginalize Honda's huge brand image built on the NSX till the mid-2000s. You should really stop trying to prove that LFA is a mistake by Lexus. You are only making yourself look bad.

For one, NSX and LFA are apples to oranges. While NSX was an entry level supercar at $80K, Lexus LFA in today's market competes with some of the most expensive European supercars. The recognition LFA is getting is what Honda could only dream of and wished for back in the early 90s. I believe a 993 Turbo S could destroy an NSX around the track. It took Honda 4 years even at a price point of $80K to cross the 483 sales target in 1993. Even the Type R with a Nurburgring time of 7:58 in 2002 was competing barely with entry level European supercars. The only big feature of the NSX was the chassis having been tuned by Ayrton Senna. Nothing else.

Still the entire rapport of a "sporty brand" with the type R line ups and a variety of sporty cars from Integra Type R to S2000 as well as the VTEC was all owed to the NSX. It is not a conicidence that it was during the era of the NSX that Honda gained most of its brand image as a very reliable and sporty brand. Honda was vocal when they launched the Honda S2000 that the engine technology borrows a lot of things from the NSX. As soon as Honda followed Toyota and shot itself in the foot by moved away from sporty cars in order to focus on hybrids, their brand image has suffered in a huge way.

Now that Lexus came out with the LFA and did so extremely well against the European exotics, Honda is contemplating ressurecting the NSX project now (which was cancelled two years ago).

gengar

I actually think the NSX was incredibly successful at launch and did completely change many people's perceptions not only of Japanese automakers, but conversely also people's perceptions about European/Italian exotics especially in regard to how ridiculous those cars were. What the NSX did for the Japanese automotive industry - as a whole, not just for performance - should not be underestimated, because it redefined how a car with supercar performance could also be drivable and reliable.

I think the real travesty to the legacy of cars like the NSX and S2000 though is in what I quoted, in that by discontinuing not only these models but also discontinuing the pursuit of successors to these models, any impact that these cars had on the brand is quickly lost. That's why, for example, it's important for Toyota to start trickling down technologies from the LFA and continuing to develop sporty, fun-to-drive vehicles, and I think most of the people on this board have already recognized that.

TommyJames

Yea, Gengar, back in the early 90s, the NSX was on par with other exotics of the time. I'd have to go look, but it wasn't a lot less money than the F348 which sold for $117k. @05 Rolla- The NSX was the LFA of its day. Get over it. That was TWENTY years ago, long before you were born.

TommyJames

I agree with that on the NSX, I think the S2000 was harming the brand.

TommyJames

Again, if you're going in with your eyes wide open and you know what you're getting into, you will have far more fun with ANY exotic than you would if it fell below your expectations. This thread was about the VALUE proposition, well that doesn't just come from the sticker price, it comes from the resale, culture, enjoyment, sound, feel to the driver, even the stereo, or lack there of if you prefer.

This thread often ends up arguing over one consideration; sticker price and stats and I'm interjecting what I know, that actually enjoying the car is a lot more than that. Flame me all you want, but I look at this stuff with a certain degree of pragmatism and I'm never going to pray to any brand god. I've had great experiences with Lexus, however I did have an SC that was a nightmare. And NO, I didn't own the 06 SC430 Open Interface Super GT as that car won after the money was spent but won after I bought the company.

05RollaXRS

It is you who is acting like a small child. So LFA even if it has 60 unsold LFAs in the US. What do you want us to do?? Go and tell Lexus to recall all the LFAs?? Give you a cookie?? Who cares if US market was slow and Lexus allocated more than they should have to the US.

Regarding the NSX, I am 32 years of age so don't insult me by saying I was not even born in 1990. Honda NSX was in production for 11 years till 2002. You are talking about 1991. Even if it could compete and fair very well against the exotics in 1991, it was completely outclasses by the mid to late-90s and early 2000s, which is why I quoted the type R in 2002 ran only 7:58 when even an 355 HP E46 M3 CSL could lap the Nurburgring in 7:50. Even a 1995 993 Turbo S could give the NSX a good run for its money.

Lexus LFA is only a two year production run and by next year, Lexus LFA will be relegated to the history books. While NSX are several thousands around the world, only 500 ever LFAs will ever exist. Apples to oranges in every form.

TommyJames

Agreed that the NSX was allowed to get too long in the tooth. When it came out, it was the super car of the day. I picked 1992, because that was the year I bought an Acura for $38k when a Lexus was going for somewhere in the mid $40s I think. When it came out the NSX had lots of raves, and it was expected to turn the Acura brand into something higher status. Gengar is probably right, that they didn't keep the legacy and it was soon lost. Was it because they didn't update the car yet kept producing it when it was getting trounced by everything? Could be. I have a friend who's got a sizable collection of cars, including an NSX and he still loves it, and he drives it. He has one of the very last produced.

As for what Lexus should do, they should be honest first. People are spending real money and should know what's going on as they have their own resale to consider. That being said, if cars don't sell, cut production rather than flood the market and harm everyone who's bought one. If they do sell out great, but it's also then important to keep building the culture and not let that die either or that too will tank resale.

And yes, a cookie would be very nice, thank you.

TommyJames

For those of you who hate my posts, the forums are the only place where honest debate about these cars can take place. The magazines are far from objective because they are all getting big revenue from Toyota and don't want to **** them off so they sort of toe the line, drop hints to protect their so called "journalistic credibility" which is an oxymoron these days.

I don't post for the fan-boy because that individual probably isn't going to write a check for an exotic anyway. How many here even have an exotic? I write so that those who are actually contemplating writing a check and need to clear it at home with the warden are not dropping their life savings thinking an exotic will be a great place to shelter some retirement money for the next two years while still having some fun. The magazines aren't going to tell you what's really up, Lexus sure don't have a lot of credibility on the subject of demand, so where do you go to find the truth? You have to come to the forums where hopefully there will be lots and lots of opinions backed up with whatever data people can find that holds a credible argument.

I was flamed because I even DARED to question Lexus when they said it was sold out to begin with. Remember? Hopefully someone didn't mortgage their kid's college fund with the belief that if they didn't get in on buying one, they were going to miss an opportunity of a lifetime to make some real money off an exotic. I interjected what data points I could find, unpopular as they were with the hope of putting a little sanity into the discussion, while still trying to sort out the truth myself. I am an exotic buyer and I DO my homework and a big part of that is debating the issues, talking to a lot of people, getting lots of opinions, driving the car if I can, even visiting the factory so I'm very clear about what I'm doing. This isn't like buying a grocery getter. This is big money and I don't care who you are. It requires careful consideration, right down to color choice and options. That Hello Kitty color may make your daughter happy but come time to sell and you're better off donating that sucker to the Girl Scouts and calling it a day.

Flame on, and I'll continue to write what I learn as I learn it.

jpvarghese

iTrader: (1)

Lurker and long-time member here. Just wanted to add that people buy cars for many reasons. Expensive is a matter of perspective. What makes sense for one person will not for another. If someone can afford a $375k car, chances are that they can afford to add the cars it's vehemently being compared to. The thought alone of spending that much money on any car is already irrational. Why bother trying to make sense of it?