LFA value discussion thread
01-30-11 | 05:42 PM
#91
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Irrational is relative. Some are prepared to see $50k in depreciation a year on fewer than 5,000 miles, others are willing to drop twice that with no problem. It's the guy that thought he wasn't going to drop anything, puts 20,000 miles on his car only to find out it's the highest mile car of the entire fleet and pays an additional $50k-$100k valuation penalty on top of what may be a different market than expected.
When we were in Las Vegas for CES, a friend was with us who just crossed 5,000 miles on his 2008 Resale-red Scuderia. Penske-Ferrari said there would be a $25k mileage penalty for crossing 5,000 miles on a car that is typically worth used around $200-$220k. This is a car that sold in 2008 for $50k over sticker and was build in "limited" quantities.
When we were in Las Vegas for CES, a friend was with us who just crossed 5,000 miles on his 2008 Resale-red Scuderia. Penske-Ferrari said there would be a $25k mileage penalty for crossing 5,000 miles on a car that is typically worth used around $200-$220k. This is a car that sold in 2008 for $50k over sticker and was build in "limited" quantities.
01-30-11 | 06:51 PM
#92
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For those of you who hate my posts, the forums are the only place where honest debate about these cars can take place. The magazines are far from objective because they are all getting big revenue from Toyota and don't want to **** them off so they sort of toe the line, drop hints to protect their so called "journalistic credibility" which is an oxymoron these days.
I don't post for the fan-boy because that individual probably isn't going to write a check for an exotic anyway. How many here even have an exotic? I write so that those who are actually contemplating writing a check and need to clear it at home with the warden are not dropping their life savings thinking an exotic will be a great place to shelter some retirement money for the next two years while still having some fun. The magazines aren't going to tell you what's really up, Lexus sure don't have a lot of credibility on the subject of demand, so where do you go to find the truth? You have to come to the forums where hopefully there will be lots and lots of opinions backed up with whatever data people can find that holds a credible argument.
I was flamed because I even DARED to question Lexus when they said it was sold out to begin with. Remember? Hopefully someone didn't mortgage their kid's college fund with the belief that if they didn't get in on buying one, they were going to miss an opportunity of a lifetime to make some real money off an exotic. I interjected what data points I could find, unpopular as they were with the hope of putting a little sanity into the discussion, while still trying to sort out the truth myself. I am an exotic buyer and I DO my homework and a big part of that is debating the issues, talking to a lot of people, getting lots of opinions, driving the car if I can, even visiting the factory so I'm very clear about what I'm doing. This isn't like buying a grocery getter. This is big money and I don't care who you are. It requires careful consideration, right down to color choice and options. That Hello Kitty color may make your daughter happy but come time to sell and you're better off donating that sucker to the Girl Scouts and calling it a day.
Flame on, and I'll continue to write what I learn as I learn it.
I don't post for the fan-boy because that individual probably isn't going to write a check for an exotic anyway. How many here even have an exotic? I write so that those who are actually contemplating writing a check and need to clear it at home with the warden are not dropping their life savings thinking an exotic will be a great place to shelter some retirement money for the next two years while still having some fun. The magazines aren't going to tell you what's really up, Lexus sure don't have a lot of credibility on the subject of demand, so where do you go to find the truth? You have to come to the forums where hopefully there will be lots and lots of opinions backed up with whatever data people can find that holds a credible argument.
I was flamed because I even DARED to question Lexus when they said it was sold out to begin with. Remember? Hopefully someone didn't mortgage their kid's college fund with the belief that if they didn't get in on buying one, they were going to miss an opportunity of a lifetime to make some real money off an exotic. I interjected what data points I could find, unpopular as they were with the hope of putting a little sanity into the discussion, while still trying to sort out the truth myself. I am an exotic buyer and I DO my homework and a big part of that is debating the issues, talking to a lot of people, getting lots of opinions, driving the car if I can, even visiting the factory so I'm very clear about what I'm doing. This isn't like buying a grocery getter. This is big money and I don't care who you are. It requires careful consideration, right down to color choice and options. That Hello Kitty color may make your daughter happy but come time to sell and you're better off donating that sucker to the Girl Scouts and calling it a day.
Flame on, and I'll continue to write what I learn as I learn it.
oh my goodness,
Diva, what is there to prove, over and over again?
Now magazines are not credible because they're only in existence because of Toyota's deep pockets? Tell me, who has sold themselves out to Toyota? only when Toyota vehicle wins a comparison?
Everybody knows your story of how you first came to CL and offered your thoughts but got shot down, I don't know how many times you have to bring that up, looks like you have a vendetta and need to prove yourself.
01-30-11 | 07:24 PM
#93
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Irrational is relative. Some are prepared to see $50k in depreciation a year on fewer than 5,000 miles, others are willing to drop twice that with no problem. It's the guy that thought he wasn't going to drop anything, puts 20,000 miles on his car only to find out it's the highest mile car of the entire fleet and pays an additional $50k-$100k valuation penalty on top of what may be a different market than expected.
01-30-11 | 07:33 PM
#94
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http://lexusenthusiast.com/2010/08/0...chase-options/
01-30-11 | 07:34 PM
#95
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Okay, on other threads the point was made that because it was a Lexus, it would be a better car to drive on a daily basis. In that case, how many miles do you think are reasonable to expect on an LFA on a yearly basis?
01-30-11 | 07:36 PM
#96
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How is this your problem? If you read enough about the car and purchase structure, you would realize how unwise of a decision it would be to buy this car for the sole intent of flipping it.
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2010/08/0...chase-options/
http://lexusenthusiast.com/2010/08/0...chase-options/
01-30-11 | 07:52 PM
#98
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It wouldn't be any different from other exotics in that price range because of depreciation. This is the sad truth in exotic car ownership. There is more to lose as the miles accumulate than on a standard car.
01-30-11 | 07:57 PM
#99
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Lexus has the first right of refusal within the first two years of ownership. Meaning, the only people you can flip it to is the dealer. They will purchase it for MSRP or market value, whichever one is less. Bottom line, it would be a big mistake to buy this car to make money on it considering you have to hold onto it for TWO years to realize any gains, if any. This is a risk that will take much fortitude to undertake.
01-30-11 | 07:58 PM
#100
Lexus Test Driver
LFA will not depreciate. It is revolutionary in many ways today. Atleast not in the long term. It is way too limited in quantity. Look at the history, the only other car Toyota made that is comparable is the 2000 GT that was co-developed with Yamaha back in 1968. It outperformed the 1968 Porsche 911 and became legendary in its track prowess. There were only 363 copies of the 2000 GT and today mint original condition 2000 GT sell for over $200,000 up to $450,000 US.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 01-30-11 at 08:03 PM.
01-30-11 | 08:00 PM
#101
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Building a culture behind a car isn't as simply as just building a good one and turning it lose on the customer base. Somehow the car has to be coveted and to do that a culture has to spring up that can sustain the car. You can't build that culture on false expectations or the car becomes negatively typed by dissatisfied customers. Get customers who understand the car, and they will do far more to sustain the brand. Sustain the brand and there is reason to build new products in the same category.
01-30-11 | 08:11 PM
#102
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LFA will not depreciate. Atleast not in the long term. It is way too limited in quantity. Look at the history, the only other car Toyota made that is comparable is the 2000 GT that was co-developed with Yamaha back in 1968. It outperformed the 1968 Porsche 911 and became legendary in its track prowess. There were only 363 copies of the 2000 GT and today mint original condition 2000 GT sell for over $200,000.
On the flip side, lets say that they aren't moving cars. Lexus has two choices, either cut production or create incentives to buy remaining production. If they drop the price, then those who bought get harmed. Drop it enough and some point the market would reach equilibrium, but it may harm a lot of existing owners along the way. If they cut production and people rave about what cars are out there, those owners will do extremely well and Lexus will be poised to do another that more closely meets what the market wants.
01-30-11 | 08:13 PM
#103
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That is a very bold statement to make. People aren't exactly lining up to buy this car now. What makes you think they are going to pay more for it in the immediate future? There is, however, some validity in your statement in the long run. Historically, cars with a similar story have fetched several times their price in future dollars.
01-30-11 | 08:15 PM
#104
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That is a very bold statement to make. People aren't exactly lining up to buy this car now. What makes you think they are going to pay more for it in the immediate future? There is, however, some validity in your statement in the long run. Historically, cars with a similar story have fetched several times their price in future dollars.
01-30-11 | 08:21 PM
#105
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Yea, but that's a 20 year hold. I looked at a lot of examples when I was weighing the purchase of a Reventon in 2008. I didn't know very much about collector cars so I went out to some experts and all said it would take 20 years and the return wouldn't justify the hold.