Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package to Debut at Geneva Auto Show (March 3rd, 2011)
02-25-11, 04:21 PM
#77
Also, keep in mind that a lot of those 0-60 times are bunk seeing as many (most? all?) US magazines measure it with a foot of rollout.
Ya, I don't care at all about launch control. The way I see it, launch control only exists because of spec-chasing manufacturers and a mindset previously left only in the realm of internet fanboys. What is it really useful for from a practical standpoint - 1/4mi drags and wannabe racers at stoplights? I have interest in neither. I posted before that I probably will never use it on my LFA, so I'd rather they just left the system out.
Nah, I didn't think you were saying that at all. I was just pointing out that's how Lexus advertised it. And it's probably not a bad idea, as I assume many of the attendees are not familiar with driving supercars at anywhere near the limit (just as they are not in other factory-sponsored exotic driver training programs, like Ferrari's programs).
Ya, I don't care at all about launch control. The way I see it, launch control only exists because of spec-chasing manufacturers and a mindset previously left only in the realm of internet fanboys. What is it really useful for from a practical standpoint - 1/4mi drags and wannabe racers at stoplights? I have interest in neither. I posted before that I probably will never use it on my LFA, so I'd rather they just left the system out.
Nah, I didn't think you were saying that at all. I was just pointing out that's how Lexus advertised it. And it's probably not a bad idea, as I assume many of the attendees are not familiar with driving supercars at anywhere near the limit (just as they are not in other factory-sponsored exotic driver training programs, like Ferrari's programs).
you are also right, exotic owners a lot of times don't necessarily translate to pro drivers. in fact i start to notice a lot of them aren't. i was at the lfa track day seeing people in isf chasing the instructor, and then in lfa chasing the instructor. seeing how they drive, their track lines, and speed, i really had second thought about what they want out of their cars, is it the performance, or just the exclusivity / exotic feeling.
gengar i really look forward to your review since you seem to be a pro driver who's into tracking events. i am really more interested in the true performance of this car overall than how cool it looks on the street
02-25-11, 04:24 PM
#78
x 2
I have been saying that for the longest time. S001 are weak tires for such an extreme car. Lexus chose it because it offers good wet traction as well.
All the serious hardcore track cars 599 GTO, GT2 RS, GT3 RS, LP570-4 etc. come with super sticky rubber like the Pirelli Corsa, Dunlop Sport GT Maxx 600 or Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
I have been saying that for the longest time. S001 are weak tires for such an extreme car. Lexus chose it because it offers good wet traction as well.
All the serious hardcore track cars 599 GTO, GT2 RS, GT3 RS, LP570-4 etc. come with super sticky rubber like the Pirelli Corsa, Dunlop Sport GT Maxx 600 or Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires.
02-25-11, 04:37 PM
#79
Lexus Champion
Launch control is used in a lot of forms of racing. Especially F1. Getting a good start can mean positions made up in the first lap, at the first corner. But besides racing. It's about good for showing off and 0-60 times for bragging rights. It's still an interesting aspect though. And I do wonder how these new 070 Bridgestone's will do. If they are R compound then the LFA is looking at some serious tires. If they're regular, I still say they'll be much better than the S001's.
02-25-11, 04:55 PM
#81
Lexus Test Driver
Launch control systems are not allowed under F1 regulations.
Last edited by gengar; 02-25-11 at 05:02 PM.
02-25-11, 06:03 PM
#82
Nah not a pro at all - in fact I'd say my track experience is on the low side and I honestly consider myself a beginner... but yes definitely an enthusiast. The only "real" track I've ever done is Laguna Seca - I don't really consider a lot of the membership club tracks, like Spring Mountain or Autobahn, to be "real" tracks. This is not a dig at all at those tracks - but many of these membership club tracks lack challenging elements such as elevation changes, technical/interesting corners, etc. That's why I'm a bit nervous about Infineon, but of course looking forward to it immensely.
Launch control systems are not allowed under F1 regulations.
Launch control systems are not allowed under F1 regulations.
since you have the isf, i know this might sound like a plug, but you should really try the bmw m school as well. i am not saying it's the best, but it's easily one of the best. if you are driving enthusiast, you are going to love it. and after that, you will appreciate your F that much more
02-25-11, 08:55 PM
#83
Lexus Test Driver
The one and only reason why F1 removed launch control in 2005 was officially to cut back costs. Nothing else.
Regardless of launch control, like I said before, straight line acceleration is as critical as driving dynamics, handling, chassis dynamics and balance to run the fastest laps possible unless it is a very small auto cross circuit.
Regardless of launch control, like I said before, straight line acceleration is as critical as driving dynamics, handling, chassis dynamics and balance to run the fastest laps possible unless it is a very small auto cross circuit.
02-25-11, 10:25 PM
#84
Lexus Champion
They may not have Launch Control in terms of the wording. But trust me, they have it, or a launch system, or anti stall system that allows the cars to get off the line and keep traction. You know as well as I do that F1 gets by things by the wording of the rules.
02-26-11, 09:36 AM
#85
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Also, I'm not convinced in the Superiority of the RE070. There are much better tyres out there. I don't think they'll be much better than the S001s, although I sincerely hope I'm wrong about that.
^ What he said.
That is correct. They are not "allowed"
It was not a cost issue. It was a regulations and sporting issue. Quite a bit to get into here, but the point is, nobody is arguing the validity of LC as a useful tool in a real race.
02-26-11, 12:24 PM
#87
Lexus Champion
From the comments on tire rack these tires seem to be pretty good. I'm sure they're better than the S001's or else they wouldn't have put them on the Nurb edition. They did say dedicated high grip tires, right? As long as they're better or a step or two above the S001's, this LFA should do wonderous things. Even with the S001's the 'regular' LFA still held corner speeds higher than the 458 Gallardo GTR SLS etc.
02-26-11, 01:26 PM
#88
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Wait one minute. If the regular LFA did higher cornering speeds than the 458 and others and still fell short on the overall time, it's not really the tires that's holding it back, is it now? This has been the crux of your argument correct?
02-26-11, 04:15 PM
#89
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If I remembered correctly, the LFA loss out on straight highspeed sections to the 458, and the argument was if the car had stickier tired, then Lexus could dial in less drag on the spoiler (if possible), and that would be a win win situation.
02-26-11, 04:45 PM
#90
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, most companies are smart enough to put dedicated track tires such as Michelin Pilot Super Sport, Pirelli Corsa or Michelin Pilot PS2 tires (with outer shoulders from the super-slick Pilot Cup tires). Then they offer customers a choice of more street-oriented tires at no cost.
The main reason why LFA had cornering speeds higher than all those cars were due to the carbon fiber stiffer chassis and much more downforce. On the straights, the grip was not nearly as good in the high speed sectors.
That is why they are categorized 'Max performance tires' while the other tires I mentioned are categorized 'Extreme performance tires', which is one level up in terms of dry traction.
I don't know enough about the RE70 and how they stack up on the race track, but S001 are weak tires when it comes to extreme track performance, but they offer more wet and all-weather traction than any of these other tires.
Still with, stickier comparable track tires such as, Pirelli Corsa, Pilot Super Sport or Sport Maxx GT 600 tires, LFA can only put down better track numbers.
The main reason why LFA had cornering speeds higher than all those cars were due to the carbon fiber stiffer chassis and much more downforce. On the straights, the grip was not nearly as good in the high speed sectors.
That is why they are categorized 'Max performance tires' while the other tires I mentioned are categorized 'Extreme performance tires', which is one level up in terms of dry traction.
I don't know enough about the RE70 and how they stack up on the race track, but S001 are weak tires when it comes to extreme track performance, but they offer more wet and all-weather traction than any of these other tires.
Still with, stickier comparable track tires such as, Pirelli Corsa, Pilot Super Sport or Sport Maxx GT 600 tires, LFA can only put down better track numbers.
From the comments on tire rack these tires seem to be pretty good. I'm sure they're better than the S001's or else they wouldn't have put them on the Nurb edition. They did say dedicated high grip tires, right? As long as they're better or a step or two above the S001's, this LFA should do wonderous things. Even with the S001's the 'regular' LFA still held corner speeds higher than the 458 Gallardo GTR SLS etc.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 02-26-11 at 05:13 PM.