ES300 HID RetroFit Pictures/Questions
08-30-04, 09:24 PM
#17
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Originally posted by tonytony
Are you both saying that I should lower my driver side even more? Or are you saying that is what is causing the beam to be unfocused?
Are you both saying that I should lower my driver side even more? Or are you saying that is what is causing the beam to be unfocused?
08-30-04, 09:28 PM
#18
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Forgot one last thing. I could be your headlamp lense on the driver side distorting your cut off as well. Ask tiguy99 about it he has the same problem I believe and ended up cutting out a piece of the lense and replacing it.
08-30-04, 09:36 PM
#19
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Ok. I've got good news for you and a little bit of an educational session. Lets start. Most projectors have small notations that indicate which one is the left and which one is the right. THe left unit is supposed to be sharper and more defined then the right simply because the right unit overlaps the left and is used for lighting up signs etc. What happened here is that the projectors were installed properly but on the wrong sides. I.E the left is on the right and vice versa. That needs to be reversed to solve the sharpness issue. Finally, the spots are probably being caused by your housing. You have a 97+ style ES300 with the Crome headlamps. If the reflectors weren't painted flat black, then this could be a huge problem which results in the UFOs we're seeing on the garage wall and perhaps some glare. Paint this a flat black or non reflective silver color to fix this problem. And finally, can you do us a favor, post pics of your headlamps with the lights off so we can see the work done and go from there. I would suggest you have Illusion fix these issues as a retrofit is not a cheap service especially with what they charge. Finally, whats the explaination they gave for the electrical issues? I would guess a bad harness or lack thereof. Take pics of that too and make sure we can see clearly how its all wired up. I can help you with the process but will need to see more pics to be of assistance. Good luck. My mom has a 98 ES I'm going to do with Valeos when we get more time so you project may be of some assistance as we learn more of what not to do and how we all can have solotions that work
08-31-04, 07:05 AM
#20
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Long answer...
Thanks all, greatly appreciated. Johnny at Illusion has actually been quite helpful in getting this done for me with diagnosing pictures and constantly giving me something to check. Its just difficult because of our distance. Okay, with, that I have a few questions and will be posting more pictures.
How do you tell which what is left and what is right? Is the notation on the bulb itself? Also, from what I am reading in your reply, you are saying the fuzzyness is actually the correct output and all that needs to be changed is that they are flipped around? How can this be? I remember a picture you posted up on my other thread (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hreadid=128974). The picture clearly shows two distinct Z patterns on the wall.
I don't know exactly what color the reflectors were painted, but I was told the headlamps themselves were painted black, so maybe that is what Johnny were refering to, the reflectors. Also with regards to all this, I forgot to mention an important matter. In the very beginning, before Johnny did the retro, I think it was my driver side lenses has a few scratches, it just looked like somebody took a sheet of sandpaper and ran it over the lenses a few times. Johnny buffed these out so that they are completely smooth. Will this have anything to with the fuzzyness/lose of focus? I will try to locate this pictures of the before and after of lenses.
According to Johnny, to fix this issue, or a potential fix to this issue is that the driver side bulb is sitting on a metal ring. I am to remove the metal ring and refit the bulb. Actually, I think is helping me with aiming my headlights. I have some serious aiming problems, which is causing my OEM highs and DRL to be COMPLETELY off if my HIDs are at where you see them now, or if I correct my OEM highs and DRL, then my HIDS would be a foot apart in terms of height. My "bottom" of my driver side beam would be at least 6" from the "top" of my passenger side beam.
That big spot on the driver side is actually caused by a hole cut into the housing. This was explained to me as being necessary because of the way the projectors fit into the assembly (how deep it went, adjustment, etc).
Now for my next post......
How do you tell which what is left and what is right? Is the notation on the bulb itself? Also, from what I am reading in your reply, you are saying the fuzzyness is actually the correct output and all that needs to be changed is that they are flipped around? How can this be? I remember a picture you posted up on my other thread (https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...hreadid=128974). The picture clearly shows two distinct Z patterns on the wall.
I don't know exactly what color the reflectors were painted, but I was told the headlamps themselves were painted black, so maybe that is what Johnny were refering to, the reflectors. Also with regards to all this, I forgot to mention an important matter. In the very beginning, before Johnny did the retro, I think it was my driver side lenses has a few scratches, it just looked like somebody took a sheet of sandpaper and ran it over the lenses a few times. Johnny buffed these out so that they are completely smooth. Will this have anything to with the fuzzyness/lose of focus? I will try to locate this pictures of the before and after of lenses.
According to Johnny, to fix this issue, or a potential fix to this issue is that the driver side bulb is sitting on a metal ring. I am to remove the metal ring and refit the bulb. Actually, I think is helping me with aiming my headlights. I have some serious aiming problems, which is causing my OEM highs and DRL to be COMPLETELY off if my HIDs are at where you see them now, or if I correct my OEM highs and DRL, then my HIDS would be a foot apart in terms of height. My "bottom" of my driver side beam would be at least 6" from the "top" of my passenger side beam.
That big spot on the driver side is actually caused by a hole cut into the housing. This was explained to me as being necessary because of the way the projectors fit into the assembly (how deep it went, adjustment, etc).
Now for my next post......
08-31-04, 07:13 AM
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As for the electrical problem. Just a short description, my HIDs were working fine, the problem was that my passenger side would take a long time to fire up, meaning it would flicker like mad for 10-15 secs before a steady beam would come out. My driver side had no problems firing up. This would go away after a few times turning the sucker on and off, but this of course is bad for all components involved and the flickering is also bad. After a few tests with Johnny, he suggested and I concurred on the passenger side ballast being problematic. Since Johnny didn't have another Bosch ballast handy, he sent me a Hella with an integrated ignitor. I put everything back together, everything fired up correctly, with only slight flickering with my driver side. Only a little bit, but still flickering. I got mad, took everything apart and tested it COMPLETELY. I determined that individually, there are no problems firing. Meaning, I hook the driver side to battery using relay, no flickering. I hook the passenger side to battery using relay, no flickering. I hook passenger side to battery turn it on, no problems, WHILE power is ON, i hook driver side, flickering. I reverse procedure. Hook driver side, no flicker, WHILE power is ON, hook passenger side, no flicker.
But we now have a new problems. The fuse keeps blowing, I mean constantly. I would be able to drive for a day or two, but then my fuse would blow. I lowered the amount by doing the following, get in car, turn on headlights to make sure everything is fired up correctly (ie wait for my driver side to stop flickering, steady beam) then I turn on my car and pray. This seemed to work without blowing fuse, its when I go from a cold start, when my HIDs are set on auto (auto on at night) that seems to trigger the blown fuse. Anway.
Johnny suggested alligator clips to direct power from battery to driver side bypass relay to test. This worked without flicker. So, we are thinking relay problem. He is actually sending me TWO new relays, one for each side. Yes...this is getting crazy, hopefully this will fix the problem.
Johnny has been great with these three problems (focus, aim, eletrical) and extremely helpful in this process as have everybody who responded to my vents on CL.
Thanks. I hope this gets some opinions.
But we now have a new problems. The fuse keeps blowing, I mean constantly. I would be able to drive for a day or two, but then my fuse would blow. I lowered the amount by doing the following, get in car, turn on headlights to make sure everything is fired up correctly (ie wait for my driver side to stop flickering, steady beam) then I turn on my car and pray. This seemed to work without blowing fuse, its when I go from a cold start, when my HIDs are set on auto (auto on at night) that seems to trigger the blown fuse. Anway.
Johnny suggested alligator clips to direct power from battery to driver side bypass relay to test. This worked without flicker. So, we are thinking relay problem. He is actually sending me TWO new relays, one for each side. Yes...this is getting crazy, hopefully this will fix the problem.
Johnny has been great with these three problems (focus, aim, eletrical) and extremely helpful in this process as have everybody who responded to my vents on CL.
Thanks. I hope this gets some opinions.
08-31-04, 07:17 AM
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I actually have pictures of the rear of the bulb from the headlight assembly for driver side. But I wouldn't post those unless asked. I think i put too many pictures.
08-31-04, 10:41 AM
#25
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As far as posted pics...not at all. You're doing fine. The more the merrier thats what I always say! On a sidenote, when www.hidforum.com comes back, please post this project as it will be exposed to more experts and chances of your success will be much greater. For the mean time, I'll do my best to help you out and also I'll post a link you can go to regarding the official HID faq. There's a forum there you can also post your situation on an get expert help. http://www.network54.com/Forum/216460
Ok. Tony lets see how we can attack this. See_fuu and the guys at Illusion are awesome at doing retrofits. We've been following their work for over 2 years and I personally am a fan of Johnny's retrofits. When I joined clublexus back in 01, it was Johnny's retrofits among others that inspirired me to get started in the game.
So with that said, we know what challenge retrofits can cause in the testing stage until the kinks get worked out. Each car project is differend from another and in a sense is like a brand new product or vehicle released to market. Before it can be put on the road, it should be thouroughly tested and problems should be fixed before its labeled safe for usage. Its a good thing you have discovered your source of troubles. Lets see how we can all remidy the situation so you can be back on the road safely enjoyiing and driving your new HID set which I personally think is beautiful.
1. Electrical Challenge
To solve this problem, try a different wire harness set. I had mine made by an old member here who's name was Amrit50. He no longer posts on CL anymore but he created a special wire harness to fit my 1995 ES300. He also performed a retrofit to his 96 ES300 prior to my retrofit I did so we both were pioneers back in 2001-2002. What we discovered is that the HID ballasts require in intense amount of AMPerage to power up and therefore need an excellent system bypassing factory wiring to provide current at startup. By the way, its somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000-30,000 volts when you flick that headlight switch.
So if you dont' have proper fuse, most likely, its going to blow. I'm using a 30AMP fuse even though I was suggested 25AMP. It works fine and has never blown. Mine was wired up about 3 inches from the POS connector on my battery and looks like this
The way my relay/harness setup works is like this. Since I have PIAA ballasts with seperate Ignitors...
One wire set goes to left ballast POS and NEG---------------> [ ]
Another wire set goes to right ballast POS and NEG ----------->[ ]
Another wire runs to the POS connector on my brown 9006 left head light plug--------> { | | }
Another wire set goes to my battery POS and NEG Connectors ---------/(30 AMP FUSE)--/------->POS Terminal
---------------------------> NEG Batt terminal (Ground)
And Connected to all wires is a 30 AMP Relay that costs 6.99 at Radio Shack.
This setup, is much easer seen than explained and regardless of how simple it is, has given me very few problems. I just changed out the relay this weekend due to water leaking in it because I had it mounted in a bad location. Other than that, if you use good gauge wiring you can avoid flickering. The cause of this is the ballast not getting anough current at startup. Try a different harness or bigger guage wire. Also place that blade type fuse and fuse holder on the POS terminal wire the same way I've got mine wired up. I can show you how to do this if you have questions. THat should solve your flicker situation and trail of blown fuses that now make good projectiles
2. Challenge of Output. (Perhaps the easiest)
To solve this Two things need to be discovered. One we need to know what projectors you are using. For the most part, these brands have left/right designated projectors....(Hella E39 style, some RS6/A6 style, E55 style, and some 90mm units, Bosche E46 DOT (I'm not sure about the ECE), some Valeo DOT/ECE H7 and D2S designation, Federal Mogul DOT, Stanley DOT, and some S2000 Honda projectors have this. Now how the production is determined which cars get them and which don't is determined at the factory when the headlight assemblies are created and installed. From my observation, some cars with HID have sharp projectors on both sides, while others have one sharp, and one fuzzy. Even when they have left and right markings.
To determine which is which, you'll have to look on the projector itself. You units appear to be ECE bosche units or Valeo ECE units. I'm not sure.
All you'll have to do is move the left projector into the right headlamp and vice versa and you'll be much happier. The left one needs to be sharper and more defined because its job is to sheild against oncoming traffic as well.
3. Final Challenge of Aiming ( Perhaps the most Challenging)
There's very little that can be said about aiming simply because of the uniqueness of each retrofit is different for each different car. There are so many variations of which projectors can be used on which car, the possibilites are endless.
In your situation, it seems as if your units could not be installed and aimed properly. It looks as if it got to the point that restoring factory settings (i.e the green bubbles) would toss off the beam patterns. Contact Johnny and ask for pictures of the install process and see what it looked like on the inside of the black plastic part (the back part of the headlamp). Post those here immediately. Once we see them, we may be able to assist you in determining what dremmeling or adjusting is needed to have the projectors fit to the point your DRLs/highbeams are level. Also, you should try to find out how the projectors were mounted. (I.E. were they done with screws, JB weld, both...etc)
Get this and let us know what your situation is and we'll be able to go from there.
Ok. Tony lets see how we can attack this. See_fuu and the guys at Illusion are awesome at doing retrofits. We've been following their work for over 2 years and I personally am a fan of Johnny's retrofits. When I joined clublexus back in 01, it was Johnny's retrofits among others that inspirired me to get started in the game.
So with that said, we know what challenge retrofits can cause in the testing stage until the kinks get worked out. Each car project is differend from another and in a sense is like a brand new product or vehicle released to market. Before it can be put on the road, it should be thouroughly tested and problems should be fixed before its labeled safe for usage. Its a good thing you have discovered your source of troubles. Lets see how we can all remidy the situation so you can be back on the road safely enjoyiing and driving your new HID set which I personally think is beautiful.
1. Electrical Challenge
To solve this problem, try a different wire harness set. I had mine made by an old member here who's name was Amrit50. He no longer posts on CL anymore but he created a special wire harness to fit my 1995 ES300. He also performed a retrofit to his 96 ES300 prior to my retrofit I did so we both were pioneers back in 2001-2002. What we discovered is that the HID ballasts require in intense amount of AMPerage to power up and therefore need an excellent system bypassing factory wiring to provide current at startup. By the way, its somewhere in the neighborhood of 25,000-30,000 volts when you flick that headlight switch.
So if you dont' have proper fuse, most likely, its going to blow. I'm using a 30AMP fuse even though I was suggested 25AMP. It works fine and has never blown. Mine was wired up about 3 inches from the POS connector on my battery and looks like this
The way my relay/harness setup works is like this. Since I have PIAA ballasts with seperate Ignitors...
One wire set goes to left ballast POS and NEG---------------> [ ]
Another wire set goes to right ballast POS and NEG ----------->[ ]
Another wire runs to the POS connector on my brown 9006 left head light plug--------> { | | }
Another wire set goes to my battery POS and NEG Connectors ---------/(30 AMP FUSE)--/------->POS Terminal
---------------------------> NEG Batt terminal (Ground)
And Connected to all wires is a 30 AMP Relay that costs 6.99 at Radio Shack.
This setup, is much easer seen than explained and regardless of how simple it is, has given me very few problems. I just changed out the relay this weekend due to water leaking in it because I had it mounted in a bad location. Other than that, if you use good gauge wiring you can avoid flickering. The cause of this is the ballast not getting anough current at startup. Try a different harness or bigger guage wire. Also place that blade type fuse and fuse holder on the POS terminal wire the same way I've got mine wired up. I can show you how to do this if you have questions. THat should solve your flicker situation and trail of blown fuses that now make good projectiles
2. Challenge of Output. (Perhaps the easiest)
To solve this Two things need to be discovered. One we need to know what projectors you are using. For the most part, these brands have left/right designated projectors....(Hella E39 style, some RS6/A6 style, E55 style, and some 90mm units, Bosche E46 DOT (I'm not sure about the ECE), some Valeo DOT/ECE H7 and D2S designation, Federal Mogul DOT, Stanley DOT, and some S2000 Honda projectors have this. Now how the production is determined which cars get them and which don't is determined at the factory when the headlight assemblies are created and installed. From my observation, some cars with HID have sharp projectors on both sides, while others have one sharp, and one fuzzy. Even when they have left and right markings.
To determine which is which, you'll have to look on the projector itself. You units appear to be ECE bosche units or Valeo ECE units. I'm not sure.
All you'll have to do is move the left projector into the right headlamp and vice versa and you'll be much happier. The left one needs to be sharper and more defined because its job is to sheild against oncoming traffic as well.
3. Final Challenge of Aiming ( Perhaps the most Challenging)
There's very little that can be said about aiming simply because of the uniqueness of each retrofit is different for each different car. There are so many variations of which projectors can be used on which car, the possibilites are endless.
In your situation, it seems as if your units could not be installed and aimed properly. It looks as if it got to the point that restoring factory settings (i.e the green bubbles) would toss off the beam patterns. Contact Johnny and ask for pictures of the install process and see what it looked like on the inside of the black plastic part (the back part of the headlamp). Post those here immediately. Once we see them, we may be able to assist you in determining what dremmeling or adjusting is needed to have the projectors fit to the point your DRLs/highbeams are level. Also, you should try to find out how the projectors were mounted. (I.E. were they done with screws, JB weld, both...etc)
Get this and let us know what your situation is and we'll be able to go from there.
Last edited by tiguy99; 08-31-04 at 10:50 AM.
08-31-04, 01:38 PM
#26
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woah.....
Alright..this is gonna take a bit to process. As I said, Johnny is great, and as far as the electrical system is concerned, I'm going to wait for the new set which should get to me by Friday before I attempt to make my own. As for connections, like yours, I have one wire set going to right ballast, another going to left ballast, a male connector to my OEM brown 9006 female connector, a single that goes to my positive connector on my battery, all this is connected to a 20amp relay (at least that is the fuse reading I am plugging into this thing, looks exactly like your picture). From what I understand, the ground in happening "internally" =) (as explained by johnny)
Johnny did in fact suggest I go with a higher amp fuse, but we wanted to make sure it wasn't another problem with the relay before going that route. In the meantime, I pretty much suspected it was not getting enough current to my driver side, hopefully, when I get the new relay, which is really TWO relays it can fix the problem.
As for my actual projectors, is there anything printed on the projectors that would help me find out what type/brand they are? I was told they are the Valeos ECE.
In the meantime...more pictures =)
Alright..this is gonna take a bit to process. As I said, Johnny is great, and as far as the electrical system is concerned, I'm going to wait for the new set which should get to me by Friday before I attempt to make my own. As for connections, like yours, I have one wire set going to right ballast, another going to left ballast, a male connector to my OEM brown 9006 female connector, a single that goes to my positive connector on my battery, all this is connected to a 20amp relay (at least that is the fuse reading I am plugging into this thing, looks exactly like your picture). From what I understand, the ground in happening "internally" =) (as explained by johnny)
Johnny did in fact suggest I go with a higher amp fuse, but we wanted to make sure it wasn't another problem with the relay before going that route. In the meantime, I pretty much suspected it was not getting enough current to my driver side, hopefully, when I get the new relay, which is really TWO relays it can fix the problem.
As for my actual projectors, is there anything printed on the projectors that would help me find out what type/brand they are? I was told they are the Valeos ECE.
In the meantime...more pictures =)