I finally sat in an Infiniti Q45 to compare it with the Lexus LS
03-10-04, 10:02 PM
#16
theRain04:
This a little off the LS vs. Q debate, but I thought I'd correct some things. Nothing to flame you on, but a couple of things to get straight (or ponder):
Infiiniti G35: 280 HP, 3433 lbs. base weight
Lexus GS400: 300HP, 3715 lbs. base weight
1. Weight--it does matter. A difference of 282 lbs. is quite siginficant between the GS4 and the G35. Try imagining a race between 2 cars, all things being equal (base weight and everything else) with the exception of engine power: one with 280HP and one with 300HP (FYI, the GS4's 1UZFE has 300 HP due to better exhaust piping than the LS400). However, the one with the 300 HP engine not only has a driver, but also 2 extra 141 lb adult passengers. Which one is going to take the race?
2. Gearing and transmission type. A G35 is an extended length vehicle modified from a purpose built sports car (ala Nissan 350Z). Nonetheless, a G35 has a 6-speed manual transmission or a 5 speed automatic. Most buyers of the coupe, I would imagine would buy it with a 6 speed manual. Which 2 cars will win a race--a car w/ a 6 speed manual or a 5 speed automatic--let alone one that is 282 lbs lighter to start with? Two things: 1) having an automatic loses about 15-20% of the available horsepower vs. a manual transmission, as it doesn't directly link to the flywheel, and 2) having 1 less gear does quite hamper you in acceleration. On a more apples-apples comparison, get the G35 in an auto vs a GS400 and you'll see what takes it.
The "big bad" GS4 is first a luxury car, and second, a performance car. I've sat and driven the new G35 sedan and coupes--not a bad piece of machinery, but it has a cheap interior (my thoughts were, "this G35 feels like a nice Nissan")--performance first, luxury second was the feeling in the G35 and it shows. Ergonomically, in the G35, how can you put your climate control display about 2 disconnected feet above where you're pushing the climate control buttons, or put the radio volume **** on the R side of the stereo? Different sure, but not quite better.
Honestly, do I care if a G35 coupe smokes me (not that they have)? Not really, to me, it just really doesn't matter. I enjoy my 4-door GS4 (and the Lexus brand in general) simply because: high quality build and workmanship (J&D Power Assoc. awards for many years running), better resale value, and it has plenty of power to scoot me happily along. Is the interior design a bit boring? Maybe so--but it's quite easy to use and is logically designed, but it still has a classy look and feel to it. Lexus is known as a conservative progressive company, and there's a reason for it--why mess with something if it aint' broke (i.e. classic counterpoint is BMW's horrible i-Drive system, their new funky Chris Bangle exterior designs, and the take -a-step back neoclassic 70's interior design)? Ever wonder why Lexus is consistently the top luxury brand? They cater just fine their buyers. Lastly, just because a 6-speed G35 owner can edge me out of a race doesn't mean I'm going to whimper home--my car was primarily designed to coddle me in luxury and it suits me just fine. No need to lose any sleep over it.
If you really want to go fast, buy something that is fast first, and luxury second. No big deal.
Back to the original topic of the Q vs. the LS. If I was on the market, I'd go for the new 2004 LS. 0-60mph in 5.6s (according to MotorTrend) is pretty fast for a big 2 ton vehicle in my book, esp. with a "meager" 290 HP--but that's just a secondary matter. But come on, how many LS and Q's do you see at the local drag strip? if I wanted speed, I'd just fork out for a Vette. Nonetheless, the LS is the clear choice due to the better resale value, high-tech goods (esp. on the Ultra line), timeless/classic design that looks good now and will do so in the future, and long-term durability, and a higher perceived prestige than the Q. Of course, we've all got different tastes, and to this date, as the GS4 has been exceeded my expectations for a 4-door car, the LS would easily exceed my expectations for a high-end luxury car. Of course, we all have different priorities in what we want for a car. . .
This a little off the LS vs. Q debate, but I thought I'd correct some things. Nothing to flame you on, but a couple of things to get straight (or ponder):
Infiiniti G35: 280 HP, 3433 lbs. base weight
Lexus GS400: 300HP, 3715 lbs. base weight
1. Weight--it does matter. A difference of 282 lbs. is quite siginficant between the GS4 and the G35. Try imagining a race between 2 cars, all things being equal (base weight and everything else) with the exception of engine power: one with 280HP and one with 300HP (FYI, the GS4's 1UZFE has 300 HP due to better exhaust piping than the LS400). However, the one with the 300 HP engine not only has a driver, but also 2 extra 141 lb adult passengers. Which one is going to take the race?
2. Gearing and transmission type. A G35 is an extended length vehicle modified from a purpose built sports car (ala Nissan 350Z). Nonetheless, a G35 has a 6-speed manual transmission or a 5 speed automatic. Most buyers of the coupe, I would imagine would buy it with a 6 speed manual. Which 2 cars will win a race--a car w/ a 6 speed manual or a 5 speed automatic--let alone one that is 282 lbs lighter to start with? Two things: 1) having an automatic loses about 15-20% of the available horsepower vs. a manual transmission, as it doesn't directly link to the flywheel, and 2) having 1 less gear does quite hamper you in acceleration. On a more apples-apples comparison, get the G35 in an auto vs a GS400 and you'll see what takes it.
The "big bad" GS4 is first a luxury car, and second, a performance car. I've sat and driven the new G35 sedan and coupes--not a bad piece of machinery, but it has a cheap interior (my thoughts were, "this G35 feels like a nice Nissan")--performance first, luxury second was the feeling in the G35 and it shows. Ergonomically, in the G35, how can you put your climate control display about 2 disconnected feet above where you're pushing the climate control buttons, or put the radio volume **** on the R side of the stereo? Different sure, but not quite better.
Honestly, do I care if a G35 coupe smokes me (not that they have)? Not really, to me, it just really doesn't matter. I enjoy my 4-door GS4 (and the Lexus brand in general) simply because: high quality build and workmanship (J&D Power Assoc. awards for many years running), better resale value, and it has plenty of power to scoot me happily along. Is the interior design a bit boring? Maybe so--but it's quite easy to use and is logically designed, but it still has a classy look and feel to it. Lexus is known as a conservative progressive company, and there's a reason for it--why mess with something if it aint' broke (i.e. classic counterpoint is BMW's horrible i-Drive system, their new funky Chris Bangle exterior designs, and the take -a-step back neoclassic 70's interior design)? Ever wonder why Lexus is consistently the top luxury brand? They cater just fine their buyers. Lastly, just because a 6-speed G35 owner can edge me out of a race doesn't mean I'm going to whimper home--my car was primarily designed to coddle me in luxury and it suits me just fine. No need to lose any sleep over it.
If you really want to go fast, buy something that is fast first, and luxury second. No big deal.
Back to the original topic of the Q vs. the LS. If I was on the market, I'd go for the new 2004 LS. 0-60mph in 5.6s (according to MotorTrend) is pretty fast for a big 2 ton vehicle in my book, esp. with a "meager" 290 HP--but that's just a secondary matter. But come on, how many LS and Q's do you see at the local drag strip? if I wanted speed, I'd just fork out for a Vette. Nonetheless, the LS is the clear choice due to the better resale value, high-tech goods (esp. on the Ultra line), timeless/classic design that looks good now and will do so in the future, and long-term durability, and a higher perceived prestige than the Q. Of course, we've all got different tastes, and to this date, as the GS4 has been exceeded my expectations for a 4-door car, the LS would easily exceed my expectations for a high-end luxury car. Of course, we all have different priorities in what we want for a car. . .
Last edited by SeattleGS400; 03-10-04 at 10:07 PM.
03-10-04, 10:09 PM
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theRain04
You wrote:
"You say that the Q is not even compared to the LS anymore and you are are simply wrong....."
Well, don't listen to me, here is the Dec 2003 comparo of full-size luxury sedans. See if you can find the Q among the list ?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7359
WRT your GS400 being *smoked* by a V6 G35, well, I'm gonna hold my tongue on that one
"You say that the Q is not even compared to the LS anymore and you are are simply wrong....."
Well, don't listen to me, here is the Dec 2003 comparo of full-size luxury sedans. See if you can find the Q among the list ?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=7359
WRT your GS400 being *smoked* by a V6 G35, well, I'm gonna hold my tongue on that one
Last edited by bluestar; 03-10-04 at 10:11 PM.
03-10-04, 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by theRain04
First of all, you were the one who compared the 1990 LS to the new Q. Scroll up and you will see for yourself. And yes, 260 HP is pretty weak, but not at that time in 1995. Around then it was pretty good. Just a quick sidenote, i personally own a 1999 GS400 with the exact same 290HP engine that you boys are all hooting and hollering about. I cannot tell you how many times i've gotten smoked by an Infiniti G35 on the road. If you look at the HP ratings for both cars, you can see that my big bad GS is supposed to have 40 HP more than the G35. Now, i know the weight of the vehicle needs to be taken into consideration, but the difference of 400lbs should balance out the 40HP difference. It isnt even close. And i have taken out the E Class and 5 series on several occasions. Basically what i am trying to say is that the top of the line Lex engine is not that strong. It's almost embarrasing to have a G35 with its 260HP V6 engine go whizzing by, but what can you do ? maybe it's time to sell and switch.
First of all, you were the one who compared the 1990 LS to the new Q. Scroll up and you will see for yourself. And yes, 260 HP is pretty weak, but not at that time in 1995. Around then it was pretty good. Just a quick sidenote, i personally own a 1999 GS400 with the exact same 290HP engine that you boys are all hooting and hollering about. I cannot tell you how many times i've gotten smoked by an Infiniti G35 on the road. If you look at the HP ratings for both cars, you can see that my big bad GS is supposed to have 40 HP more than the G35. Now, i know the weight of the vehicle needs to be taken into consideration, but the difference of 400lbs should balance out the 40HP difference. It isnt even close. And i have taken out the E Class and 5 series on several occasions. Basically what i am trying to say is that the top of the line Lex engine is not that strong. It's almost embarrasing to have a G35 with its 260HP V6 engine go whizzing by, but what can you do ? maybe it's time to sell and switch.
Ignoring the last few posts irrelavent posts, since it's been established that the Q and LS430 have similar and very close acceleration performance, and that if one is slow the either is slow too. If 0-60 in less than 6 is slow, you got something wrong with you. These cars are both great. The LS shoots for the traditional luxury market, and the Q shoots for an edgier crowd. Taste is subjective and if you can read you can look up the word. You want a fast car and don't care for luxury, or have tastes different from most other people you can buy a G35 or even a Dodge Neon SRT-4 which is faster than all the cars listed. How about a motorcycle? Or you could sit on an M-80, whatever tickles your fancy. Objectivity is a good quality, and all the cars in 60k range are very closely matched. Buy what you like and if others disagree with you than keep it to yourself. Just try to be reasonable and objective. And keep your facts straight and consistent.
03-11-04, 09:42 AM
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Poor marketing cannot disguise a poor product. The Q45 is a great car to an Accord or Altima but to a LS 430, 7, S-class, A8, XJ, it is poor. Hell, even with a new final drive, no magazine even tests it because NO ONE CARES. Clearly consumers don't, magazines don't and Nissan didn't b/c this was to be Infiniti's greatest car ever and it was more of a dud than the 1st and 2nd generation.
Hell the Q45 placed 4th behind the 540, A6 and GS 430 in Car and Driver. So it can't beat the cheaper, smaller competition nor the cars it is supposed to go against.
I've driven the Q, and IMO, it is very nice but there is no reason to buy this car. The interior is smaller than the LS, all it's 340hp is slower than the LS, it has no panache and is lacking class and substance, handles no better etc. This was against the 01-03 LS 430. THe 04 just wipes the floor with it.
Car and Driver didn't even include the Q45 in the comparion the LS 430 won 2 months ago. They said if it can't beat the GS/A6/540, it has NO CHANCE against the other cars.
Styling is all opinion so I won't go there. I am not bashing the Q. All I stated were references we all can find on the web or if you subscibe to the magazine, it's in your living room.
Q45 is better than an RL.
Hell the Q45 placed 4th behind the 540, A6 and GS 430 in Car and Driver. So it can't beat the cheaper, smaller competition nor the cars it is supposed to go against.
I've driven the Q, and IMO, it is very nice but there is no reason to buy this car. The interior is smaller than the LS, all it's 340hp is slower than the LS, it has no panache and is lacking class and substance, handles no better etc. This was against the 01-03 LS 430. THe 04 just wipes the floor with it.
Car and Driver didn't even include the Q45 in the comparion the LS 430 won 2 months ago. They said if it can't beat the GS/A6/540, it has NO CHANCE against the other cars.
Styling is all opinion so I won't go there. I am not bashing the Q. All I stated were references we all can find on the web or if you subscibe to the magazine, it's in your living room.
Q45 is better than an RL.
03-11-04, 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Poor marketing cannot disguise a poor product. The Q45 is a great car to an Accord or Altima but to a LS 430, 7, S-class, A8, XJ, it is poor. Hell, even with a new final drive, no magazine even tests it because NO ONE CARES. Clearly consumers don't, magazines don't and Nissan didn't b/c this was to be Infiniti's greatest car ever and it was more of a dud than the 1st and 2nd generation.
Hell the Q45 placed 4th behind the 540, A6 and GS 430 in Car and Driver. So it can't beat the cheaper, smaller competition nor the cars it is supposed to go against.
I've driven the Q, and IMO, it is very nice but there is no reason to buy this car. The interior is smaller than the LS, all it's 340hp is slower than the LS, it has no panache and is lacking class and substance, handles no better etc. This was against the 01-03 LS 430. THe 04 just wipes the floor with it.
Car and Driver didn't even include the Q45 in the comparion the LS 430 won 2 months ago. They said if it can't beat the GS/A6/540, it has NO CHANCE against the other cars.
Styling is all opinion so I won't go there. I am not bashing the Q. All I stated were references we all can find on the web or if you subscibe to the magazine, it's in your living room.
Q45 is better than an RL.
Poor marketing cannot disguise a poor product. The Q45 is a great car to an Accord or Altima but to a LS 430, 7, S-class, A8, XJ, it is poor. Hell, even with a new final drive, no magazine even tests it because NO ONE CARES. Clearly consumers don't, magazines don't and Nissan didn't b/c this was to be Infiniti's greatest car ever and it was more of a dud than the 1st and 2nd generation.
Hell the Q45 placed 4th behind the 540, A6 and GS 430 in Car and Driver. So it can't beat the cheaper, smaller competition nor the cars it is supposed to go against.
I've driven the Q, and IMO, it is very nice but there is no reason to buy this car. The interior is smaller than the LS, all it's 340hp is slower than the LS, it has no panache and is lacking class and substance, handles no better etc. This was against the 01-03 LS 430. THe 04 just wipes the floor with it.
Car and Driver didn't even include the Q45 in the comparion the LS 430 won 2 months ago. They said if it can't beat the GS/A6/540, it has NO CHANCE against the other cars.
Styling is all opinion so I won't go there. I am not bashing the Q. All I stated were references we all can find on the web or if you subscibe to the magazine, it's in your living room.
Q45 is better than an RL.
03-11-04, 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by theRain04
[B]Probably due mostly to poor marketing. Top end luxury car buyers want more of a marquee nameplate to go along with all that luxury and frankly, most people don't even know that the Q exists. . . I think in a few more years, it will.
[B]
[B]Probably due mostly to poor marketing. Top end luxury car buyers want more of a marquee nameplate to go along with all that luxury and frankly, most people don't even know that the Q exists. . . I think in a few more years, it will.
[B]
Originally posted by theRain04
Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti.
Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti.
I take it you're not happy with your GS. There aren't many cars in the same market taht are significantly faster to the point it makes a huge difference. You're talking about switching cars to gain possibly one second or less off your 0-60 and a fraction of a second off the 1/4mi. You should really consider getting an E55 AMG. Yes all the quality cons of going German, but man is it fast. Speed seems to be your main consideration(since you have compared G35 to LS). There are tons of cars that will beat out all Infiniti's and all Lexus's, many at almost half the price. They have no wood either by the way. But if you do want some of the Luxury, the E55 AMG will be faster than any car on the road 99.9% of the time while maintaining a good level of luxury. And only a few super cars can beat it in almost every category. And for $80k, it's a bargain. That's only $25k more than a Q.
03-11-04, 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by dj.ctwatt
That's a good point. Lexus ows a huge part of it's relative success to it's unique marketing campaign. With the intro of the Q and the FX, Infiniti is on the rise, and it's sales show it. I am actually a huge fan of the Q, but I guess it's for other reasons than you. But I believe they are very competitive cars.
Again I'd stick to fact vs fiction. . . you don't work for Infiniti nor do you have any real knowledge of the upcoming M45. They havn't made any official releases on performance or stats of the upcoming M, and Nissan(the parent company) has been known with a history of overstating power. They actually had to make a retraction with the Altima and Maxima. There is also much speculation with the Q, but I wouldn't know for sure. The third generation GS will be released as well, and may have significant updates. If you want to mention upcoming models, Lexus publicly announced a new performance division(not L-tuned) that will be competitive with AMG and the M series. All in all Nissan really applies itself to a different market than Lexus. Lexus shoots for some of the Mercedes market as well as the previous market the old American luxury brands OWNED. Infiniti is still establishing their image, but they are aiming to have the sportier, BMW type appeal. Similar cars, different markets, different tastes. You know I hate it when anybody bashes, Lexus or Infiniti, because you'd just be biased if you did. (sicklex did have a good point tho) It's like Toyota/Honda or Toyota/Nissan bashing. You can definitely tell major differences between Lexus and Lincoln, or Infiniti and BMW, but Infiniti/Lexus it gets too close to call. The one thing the Japanese motor companies are good at, is to be highly competitive-- just read business articles on them. That's what fuels their success. Tastes are tastes and everyone has their right to theirs. Just keep your FACTS straight.
I take it you're not happy with your GS. There aren't many cars in the same market taht are significantly faster to the point it makes a huge difference. You're talking about switching cars to gain possibly one second or less off your 0-60 and a fraction of a second off the 1/4mi. You should really consider getting an E55 AMG. Yes all the quality cons of going German, but man is it fast. Speed seems to be your main consideration(since you have compared G35 to LS). There are tons of cars that will beat out all Infiniti's and all Lexus's, many at almost half the price. They have no wood either by the way. But if you do want some of the Luxury, the E55 AMG will be faster than any car on the road 99.9% of the time while maintaining a good level of luxury. And only a few super cars can beat it in almost every category. And for $80k, it's a bargain. That's only $25k more than a Q.
That's a good point. Lexus ows a huge part of it's relative success to it's unique marketing campaign. With the intro of the Q and the FX, Infiniti is on the rise, and it's sales show it. I am actually a huge fan of the Q, but I guess it's for other reasons than you. But I believe they are very competitive cars.
Again I'd stick to fact vs fiction. . . you don't work for Infiniti nor do you have any real knowledge of the upcoming M45. They havn't made any official releases on performance or stats of the upcoming M, and Nissan(the parent company) has been known with a history of overstating power. They actually had to make a retraction with the Altima and Maxima. There is also much speculation with the Q, but I wouldn't know for sure. The third generation GS will be released as well, and may have significant updates. If you want to mention upcoming models, Lexus publicly announced a new performance division(not L-tuned) that will be competitive with AMG and the M series. All in all Nissan really applies itself to a different market than Lexus. Lexus shoots for some of the Mercedes market as well as the previous market the old American luxury brands OWNED. Infiniti is still establishing their image, but they are aiming to have the sportier, BMW type appeal. Similar cars, different markets, different tastes. You know I hate it when anybody bashes, Lexus or Infiniti, because you'd just be biased if you did. (sicklex did have a good point tho) It's like Toyota/Honda or Toyota/Nissan bashing. You can definitely tell major differences between Lexus and Lincoln, or Infiniti and BMW, but Infiniti/Lexus it gets too close to call. The one thing the Japanese motor companies are good at, is to be highly competitive-- just read business articles on them. That's what fuels their success. Tastes are tastes and everyone has their right to theirs. Just keep your FACTS straight.
I take it you're not happy with your GS. There aren't many cars in the same market taht are significantly faster to the point it makes a huge difference. You're talking about switching cars to gain possibly one second or less off your 0-60 and a fraction of a second off the 1/4mi. You should really consider getting an E55 AMG. Yes all the quality cons of going German, but man is it fast. Speed seems to be your main consideration(since you have compared G35 to LS). There are tons of cars that will beat out all Infiniti's and all Lexus's, many at almost half the price. They have no wood either by the way. But if you do want some of the Luxury, the E55 AMG will be faster than any car on the road 99.9% of the time while maintaining a good level of luxury. And only a few super cars can beat it in almost every category. And for $80k, it's a bargain. That's only $25k more than a Q.
I think you are pretty accurate to suggest that Lexus is to Mercedes as Infiniti is to BMW. That is true to an extent. Except for the fact that Infiniti is not yet at the "prestige" level that BMW is. But that is changing very quickly. All Infiniti models are changing, and with the changes have come great success (G35, G35 coupe, and the FX). I think they will also have a big winner with the new M45. And by the time they give the Q a redo (2007 from what i've heard), it could very well achieve that same level of "status" as the others, with higher volume sales to follow.
I'm not unhappy with my GS, but i AM craving something a little different these days. Also, power is not everything to me. If it was, i would be driving a sports car. I like strong, sturdy, reliable luxury cars that have great styling and make a statement. I like the GS and LS, i always have. But i also very much like the Q and the upcoming M (from what i have seen of it), and i'm possibly thinking about selling my GS for the new Q. I have driven several Nissans/Infinitis in the past and they have all been great to me. I believe Nissan makes better, stronger engines than Toyota does. I have always felt that way. I have owned both and i can make a clear distinction between the two. The differences are not extreme, but they are there. As for everything else, it's hard to say there is a clear advantage to either. They are both great automakers that do everything very very well. I would never own anything outside of Lexus and Infiniti. There is no reason to. Just like there is no reason to "bash" Infiniti and call their products "poor".
03-11-04, 11:00 PM
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I don't have much experience with their V8's, but I'll give you one thing, that VQ engine is one sweet piece of machinery. Wow. . . I'm anxiously awaiting the new M45 and the new GS, as my LS is getting old. I'm just going to be very heart broken to part with it. I havn't seen any good pictures of the Fuga and want to see some good 360 degree shots. I'm just fery fed up with their being a JDM model and a US spec model. I'm weary with the let down of a great model being released in Japan, and it being detuned here in the US. Why oh why did they keep the Skyline GTR in Japan I don't know. The new GTR is supposed to come here too as the G35 is the Skyline. I absolutely HATE how Infiniti and Lexus are very secretive about their upcoming products. They only give us teases until a few months before release.
03-11-04, 11:33 PM
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theRain04
You make statements like these:
"Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti..."
Really ? This is just YOUR opinion, right ? Well, I guess we'll see if this prediction pans out...
"All Infiniti models are changing, and with the changes have come great success (G35, G35 coupe, and the FX). I think they will also have a big winner with the new M45. And by the time they give the Q a redo (2007 from what i've heard), it could very well achieve that same level of "status" as the others, with higher volume sales to follow."
Could, may, would... are simply wishes. Think a redo will lead to "same level of status" ? Think again ? The fact is that the M, like the Q, is a dud ! 99.99% of Americans don't even know the M exists. Re-designing won't help either of these two duds, imo. The competition is too fierce and are not going to stand pat and watch Infiniti do its thing. The G was successful because it was cheap and provided 75% of BMW-like driving perfomance. Did that effect BMW sales ? Hardly a dent, in the overall sales figures. And brother Nissan has been stinking it up too. Murano and Maxima. Geez ! Look at the 2004 Maxima. Ugly, ugly ugly... Just terrible design. And I was a former 5th-gen Maxima owner for 6 years and 120K miles of pure enjoyment. Now I cannot stand the new version. Just terrible. And a re-design won't come soon enough for it.
"... i'm possibly thinking about selling my GS for the new Q..."
This last point is a toughie.... IMHO, that would be one heck of a mistake to sell a GS and buy a Q45 ? These are just two different beasts ! Of course, I don't want to sound like I am offering you advice, but if I were you, I would not do it. Not for all the Q's in the world. You gain nothing besides a floaty large sedan, with no distinguishing features. Neither the engine, the styling, the interior or the features are better than ANY of its competitors. It is simply an anonymous car, and I am afraid, it will remain so. And if that doesn't deter you, the resale will just flat out nail you !!! Infiniti screwed this car up pretty badly marketing it as a sporty luxury sedan. That was the death wish ! What were they thinking ? It is now too late for them, best to just throw in the towel and move on to something else. Don't take our word for it, go out and buy the Q. My friend with the 2002 Q45 already regrets it, and he's only owned it for a little over 3 months. He now wishes he had ponied up the additional $5K and purchased the LS instead.
Giving up a GS for a Q ? That has to rank way up there as a rarity indeed !!!
"Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti..."
Really ? This is just YOUR opinion, right ? Well, I guess we'll see if this prediction pans out...
"All Infiniti models are changing, and with the changes have come great success (G35, G35 coupe, and the FX). I think they will also have a big winner with the new M45. And by the time they give the Q a redo (2007 from what i've heard), it could very well achieve that same level of "status" as the others, with higher volume sales to follow."
Could, may, would... are simply wishes. Think a redo will lead to "same level of status" ? Think again ? The fact is that the M, like the Q, is a dud ! 99.99% of Americans don't even know the M exists. Re-designing won't help either of these two duds, imo. The competition is too fierce and are not going to stand pat and watch Infiniti do its thing. The G was successful because it was cheap and provided 75% of BMW-like driving perfomance. Did that effect BMW sales ? Hardly a dent, in the overall sales figures. And brother Nissan has been stinking it up too. Murano and Maxima. Geez ! Look at the 2004 Maxima. Ugly, ugly ugly... Just terrible design. And I was a former 5th-gen Maxima owner for 6 years and 120K miles of pure enjoyment. Now I cannot stand the new version. Just terrible. And a re-design won't come soon enough for it.
"... i'm possibly thinking about selling my GS for the new Q..."
This last point is a toughie.... IMHO, that would be one heck of a mistake to sell a GS and buy a Q45 ? These are just two different beasts ! Of course, I don't want to sound like I am offering you advice, but if I were you, I would not do it. Not for all the Q's in the world. You gain nothing besides a floaty large sedan, with no distinguishing features. Neither the engine, the styling, the interior or the features are better than ANY of its competitors. It is simply an anonymous car, and I am afraid, it will remain so. And if that doesn't deter you, the resale will just flat out nail you !!! Infiniti screwed this car up pretty badly marketing it as a sporty luxury sedan. That was the death wish ! What were they thinking ? It is now too late for them, best to just throw in the towel and move on to something else. Don't take our word for it, go out and buy the Q. My friend with the 2002 Q45 already regrets it, and he's only owned it for a little over 3 months. He now wishes he had ponied up the additional $5K and purchased the LS instead.
Giving up a GS for a Q ? That has to rank way up there as a rarity indeed !!!
Last edited by bluestar; 03-11-04 at 11:41 PM.
03-12-04, 07:44 AM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
All I know is - I went to the Infiniti dealer expecting to come out wondering which was more comfortable inside - the Lexus LS or the Infiniti Q45.. Well, I sat in the Q45 for 10 seconds and walked out. I'm not biased at all. In fact, I like the exterior of the Q45 better than the LS. But the interior is less comfortable than my Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham...
03-12-04, 10:23 AM
#26
Instructor
Almost all car magazines have stated the LS430 has quicker 0-60 acceleration than the Q45 eventhough the Q45 has 340HP. They also criticize the Q45's confusing dash borad and its ride. I sat in the Q45 on the showroom floor and was disappointed at its flimsy plastic glove compartment and the cheap looking wood(salesman told me it's real wood). I got up and left in 5 min.
03-12-04, 12:58 PM
#27
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Re: theRain04
Originally posted by bluestar
You make statements like these:
"Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti..."
Really ? This is just YOUR opinion, right ? Well, I guess we'll see if this prediction pans out...
"All Infiniti models are changing, and with the changes have come great success (G35, G35 coupe, and the FX). I think they will also have a big winner with the new M45. And by the time they give the Q a redo (2007 from what i've heard), it could very well achieve that same level of "status" as the others, with higher volume sales to follow."
Could, may, would... are simply wishes. Think a redo will lead to "same level of status" ? Think again ? The fact is that the M, like the Q, is a dud ! 99.99% of Americans don't even know the M exists. Re-designing won't help either of these two duds, imo. The competition is too fierce and are not going to stand pat and watch Infiniti do its thing. The G was successful because it was cheap and provided 75% of BMW-like driving perfomance. Did that effect BMW sales ? Hardly a dent, in the overall sales figures. And brother Nissan has been stinking it up too. Murano and Maxima. Geez ! Look at the 2004 Maxima. Ugly, ugly ugly... Just terrible design. And I was a former 5th-gen Maxima owner for 6 years and 120K miles of pure enjoyment. Now I cannot stand the new version. Just terrible. And a re-design won't come soon enough for it.
"... i'm possibly thinking about selling my GS for the new Q..."
This last point is a toughie.... IMHO, that would be one heck of a mistake to sell a GS and buy a Q45 ? These are just two different beasts ! Of course, I don't want to sound like I am offering you advice, but if I were you, I would not do it. Not for all the Q's in the world. You gain nothing besides a floaty large sedan, with no distinguishing features. Neither the engine, the styling, the interior or the features are better than ANY of its competitors. It is simply an anonymous car, and I am afraid, it will remain so. And if that doesn't deter you, the resale will just flat out nail you !!! Infiniti screwed this car up pretty badly marketing it as a sporty luxury sedan. That was the death wish ! What were they thinking ? It is now too late for them, best to just throw in the towel and move on to something else. Don't take our word for it, go out and buy the Q. My friend with the 2002 Q45 already regrets it, and he's only owned it for a little over 3 months. He now wishes he had ponied up the additional $5K and purchased the LS instead.
Giving up a GS for a Q ? That has to rank way up there as a rarity indeed !!!
You make statements like these:
"Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti..."
Really ? This is just YOUR opinion, right ? Well, I guess we'll see if this prediction pans out...
"All Infiniti models are changing, and with the changes have come great success (G35, G35 coupe, and the FX). I think they will also have a big winner with the new M45. And by the time they give the Q a redo (2007 from what i've heard), it could very well achieve that same level of "status" as the others, with higher volume sales to follow."
Could, may, would... are simply wishes. Think a redo will lead to "same level of status" ? Think again ? The fact is that the M, like the Q, is a dud ! 99.99% of Americans don't even know the M exists. Re-designing won't help either of these two duds, imo. The competition is too fierce and are not going to stand pat and watch Infiniti do its thing. The G was successful because it was cheap and provided 75% of BMW-like driving perfomance. Did that effect BMW sales ? Hardly a dent, in the overall sales figures. And brother Nissan has been stinking it up too. Murano and Maxima. Geez ! Look at the 2004 Maxima. Ugly, ugly ugly... Just terrible design. And I was a former 5th-gen Maxima owner for 6 years and 120K miles of pure enjoyment. Now I cannot stand the new version. Just terrible. And a re-design won't come soon enough for it.
"... i'm possibly thinking about selling my GS for the new Q..."
This last point is a toughie.... IMHO, that would be one heck of a mistake to sell a GS and buy a Q45 ? These are just two different beasts ! Of course, I don't want to sound like I am offering you advice, but if I were you, I would not do it. Not for all the Q's in the world. You gain nothing besides a floaty large sedan, with no distinguishing features. Neither the engine, the styling, the interior or the features are better than ANY of its competitors. It is simply an anonymous car, and I am afraid, it will remain so. And if that doesn't deter you, the resale will just flat out nail you !!! Infiniti screwed this car up pretty badly marketing it as a sporty luxury sedan. That was the death wish ! What were they thinking ? It is now too late for them, best to just throw in the towel and move on to something else. Don't take our word for it, go out and buy the Q. My friend with the 2002 Q45 already regrets it, and he's only owned it for a little over 3 months. He now wishes he had ponied up the additional $5K and purchased the LS instead.
Giving up a GS for a Q ? That has to rank way up there as a rarity indeed !!!
I did not say a redo would equate to status. Read my post again. I said with the introduction of the new M, the Infiniti line may get an even further boost along with the G35 and FX models. Thus strengthening the Infiniti name. SO, by the time the redo of the Q45 will take place, it will be a new vehicle. Perhaps a new image along with the other factors would give the Q prestige it so richly deserves.
you call the new Maxima ugly ?? how about the new GS which isn't even going to be out for at least another year ?? looks just like a Maxima with the exception of a "few" differences. In a quick glance, you would never be able to tell the difference. I guess the same could be said of the ES330 and the Camry. Their profiles are exactly the same and only after i view the car from the front and see the "crooked L" smacked onto the hood of the ES do i then realize that it is, in fact, a Lexus. You say Nissan makes ugly cars ? Toyota makes the ugliest cars of ANY of them and most people who are not fanatical about Lexus would agree. At least Nissan takes chances and develops edgy, new styling. Everytime i see a new Nissan or Infiniti, regardless of the model, it catches my eye. I can't quite say the same for Toyota or Lexus.
So why exactly would it be a mistake to sell my GS for a new Q ?? you say that all i would gain is a floaty large sedan with no distinctive features. is that your "opinion" or is it "fact" ? (btw, the king of all floaty sedans is indeed the LS430 and the Q is known to have morty sporty attributes when comparing the two). You say neither the engine, the styling, the interior or the features are better than ANY of its competitors. Again, that is your "opinion", not fact. I prefer the styling over any Lexus and the features and engine are probably about the same. All things being equal, which they certainly are, it really all comes down to preference. So, why does your friend regret buying the '02 Q ? you didn't give reasons.. please do.
03-12-04, 01:01 PM
#28
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Originally posted by BrickHead
Almost all car magazines have stated the LS430 has quicker 0-60 acceleration than the Q45 eventhough the Q45 has 340HP. They also criticize the Q45's confusing dash borad and its ride. I sat in the Q45 on the showroom floor and was disappointed at its flimsy plastic glove compartment and the cheap looking wood(salesman told me it's real wood). I got up and left in 5 min.
Almost all car magazines have stated the LS430 has quicker 0-60 acceleration than the Q45 eventhough the Q45 has 340HP. They also criticize the Q45's confusing dash borad and its ride. I sat in the Q45 on the showroom floor and was disappointed at its flimsy plastic glove compartment and the cheap looking wood(salesman told me it's real wood). I got up and left in 5 min.
03-12-04, 05:44 PM
#29
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Almost all car magazines have stated the LS430 has quicker 0-60 acceleration than the Q45 eventhough the Q45 has 340HP. They also criticize the Q45's confusing dash borad and its ride. I sat in the Q45 on the showroom floor and was disappointed at its flimsy plastic glove compartment and the cheap looking wood(salesman told me it's real wood). I got up and left in 5 min.
At least Nissan takes chances and develops edgy, new styling.
Their profiles are exactly the same and only after i view the car from the front and see the "crooked L" smacked onto the hood of the ES
Toyota makes the ugliest cars of ANY of them and most people who are not fanatical about Lexus would agree.
don't have much experience with their V8's, but I'll give you one thing, that VQ engine is one sweet piece of machinery.
Lord knows that new M45 is going to mop the floor with the new GS, so things are definately looking up for Infiniti. And you may think the LS is the best of the best when it comes to high end luxury sedans, but do you honestly think the XJ or the 7-series is MORE reliable than a Q ?? Maybe you should subscribe to those magazines you talk so highly about. Then you will see that Infiniti ranks at the very top of every list along with Lexus as far as reliability and durability are concerned.
The Q, yes is very reliable. But reliablity alone does not make a car a luxury car, especially when people are dumping 60k on an automobile.
Just like there is no reason to "bash" Infiniti and call their products "poor".
03-12-04, 07:11 PM
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reasons to dump an '02 Q45
My friend came out of an '01 Max and wanted something new, luxurious and full-size. Like he claimed: a car to pamper him. He went back-and-forth b/w the Lex and Infiniti dealer. There was an '01 LS with like 35K miles w/ML/Nav, for $45K. And then there was the top-of-the-line (premium) '02 Q45 which had much lower miles (like 15K miles) priced at $42K. The LS was 1-yr older, higher milage, and less features, but dealer won't move lower than asking of $45K. He was able to buy the Q for $40K, a $5K difference with the LS. So he went with the cheaper car - the Q. Now in retrospect, he can understand why the LS was priced higher. Much morre quality. His Q has been back to Infiniti twice in 3 months - to fix an a/c and an O2 sensor. And each time he got a G35 loaner which he liked a LOT, and wished he had bought something smaller than the Q. PLUS, he feels the Q rides like a large sedan and much too large for his liking. That's just him tho', now he is looking for a replacement without taking a bath in resale 
Ever try driving the Q yet ? Go and take it for a spin, and then drive an '04 LS and see for yourself.
'Nuff said
Ever try driving the Q yet ? Go and take it for a spin, and then drive an '04 LS and see for yourself.
'Nuff said
Last edited by bluestar; 03-12-04 at 07:17 PM.