theRain04

No, reliability alone does not make a luxury car.. but then i ask you, what makes a luxury car a luxury car ? Is it features ? (both Q and LS have about the same as most other brands) Is it performance ? (about the same) handling ? (about the same) or is it high volume sales ? I'm starting to think your definition of luxury is "if everyone else is buying this expensive car, it must be luxurious". Well, sorry to tell you buddy, but the Audi A8L sells about the same as the Q does and it is PLENTY luxurious. So, tell me.. what are the CLEAR differences between the two cars, besides high sales volumes for the LS and low sales for the Q ? As you and I both know, many many people buy BMW's and MB's because they "believe" that they are the best cars in the world. It's nothing more than a popularity contest. If those consumers were well informed, they wouldn't spend their money on such crap. Lexus has done extremely well marketing their fantastic product. Infiniti has not. But don't bash the Infiniti product simply because it isn't "popular". Being popular does not neccessarily mean being the best. Nor does being unpopular mean being the worst !

theRain04

Well, large sedans like the Q are not for everyone. I like a nice big sedan, others are better suited for midsize i suppose. In any event, an A/C and O2 sensor are not the biggest problems in the world. It's covered under warranty, so who cares ? If your friend is assuming that the Q is unreliable, i have a friend who's LS's transmission just died recently, in which it cost him $2700 to rebuild. Cars have problems. All cars have probelms, especially used ones which is what your friend bought. Pre-owned or used, it's still a car that was driven by somebody else and who knows what they might have done to it. When i finally decide to make my purchase, it will be for a new car. Anyway, I have in fact driven both cars, and they both drive beautifully. I have not yet driven them back-to-back, which i think i will do very soon. I don't think I will be so swept away by the superiority of the LS, but we will see. If I notice any specific differences, I will be very honest and I will report them. So far, outside of car magazines which are PAID to give their opinions by specific automakers, I have yet to read a review from a CONSUMER who test drove both cars back to back. All I keep hearing about is how they feel the interior is nicer in the LS, or the seats are more confortable, blah blah blah. If anyone has tested these 2 sedans back-to-back, I would appreciate your opinion on this. I will gladly give my own very very soon.

dj.ctwatt

Ok, this thread just seems to be rocking back and forth with the same arguements, and I just feel like dropping another of my huge posts by telling you this story:
We went to Benz dealership to research the new S-class. We wanted to acquire a vehicle for status, and unfortunately status is dumb, meaning status is what everyone else wants, whether it is a good choice or not. For instance tastes in Jewelry. We needed a car to display status, and without arguement MB is the benchmark for that. Anyway we drove in with our LS400 and our Porsche 911GT3(yes we took two cars to show off) and were fairly satisfied with the MB. It's just not the same quality engineering/quality as Lexus. Certain panels were loose and some even came off with some fiddling, no joke! A brand new S430! The battery was dead to boot, being on the showroom floor. Anyway the dealer persisted to downplay Lexus, and we explained our case: the Lexus LS430 is far superior, but we needed the social benefits for our business of the Benz "status." Anyway he got angry, arguing BS about Lexus being Toyota, and we argued now Benz is Chrysler. Basically, he lost the sale and was very angry. . . we actually ridiculed him as bein a poor salesman, as he should have at least patronized us for the sale. The point is that Lexus gets a lot of this heat from Mercedes, and we can be at least a little simpathetic and understanding to theRain in his case. Yes he made some pretty biased comments earlier and exaggerated things a bit, but has since toned down. The Q is a great car, even the guys who have test driven it should realize that. If Lexus did not exist, you'd all probably be driving the Q. Yours and my choice to stick with Lexus is our own and we have our reasons, even if Lexus is better. . . or even if Infiniti is better-- it's your opinion. But at least you'd have to admit that both cars are incredible, well built machines. Far more reliable, far more comfortable, and in some cases faster than most standard high status sedans. And even though Infiniti doesn't quite have the same status as Lexus has, nor does Lexus have the same status that Mercedes has, you'd have to be an idiot to regard either car as junk. I like both cars, both for absolutely different reasons. Bravo to the Q45, you keep Lexus on its toes, and bravo to the LS430 as it provides Lexus customers with exactly what they want. Without either competitor, neither car would be what it is now. To each his own. Can I get a "here here?"

LexFather

I agree. The line of what makes a luxury car are BLUURING, with many features that were only on luxury cars (NAV, HID, wood, Vehicle control systems, gauge clusters, leather, etc etc) are available on many cars under 30k.

theRain04

I agree with what you say, but I would still like to see Infiniti rise in sales numbers and develop more "prestige". If the quality of the 2 brands are about the same or at least close, it doesnt make sense that so many prefer BMW or Mercedes. Just a quick side note: I have mentioned in casual conversation to fellow co-workers that I might be considering buying an Infiniti soon (all of whom know that I drive a Lexus). The reaction that I have gotten from them is "wow, I wish I could afford an Infiniti". So, don't think the name "Infiniti" carrys no weight. The general public realizes that they are excellent luxury cars. At no point do I ever get "Infiniti ? what's that ?" as a reaction. Again, I think it all comes down to marketing. I have still yet to see a commercial of the Q45 in the 15 years of it's existance.

bluestar

Your co-workers know you drive a Lexus and think they cannot afford an Infiniti ? Uhm, yeah. Listen, so far your position has been in favor of Infiniti and your wish to have them rise in sales if, according to you, Infiniti is close to Lexus. I hate to bust your bubble, but Inifiniti is NOT close to Lexus, except in the area of reliability. To be close to Lexus, Infiniti needs a line-up of winners in entry level lux, mid-level lux, full-size lux, as well as a combination of car-based and body-on-frame luxo-SUVs. Is Infiniti there yet ? Nope. By 2007, Lexus will come out with the HPX, and it will blow away the FX. The G35 doesn't really compete with any Lex product, so that leaves, the I35, M45, Q45 and QX56. All these four vehicles are DUDS. It is going to take a miracle to get them off the mopping floor and get buyers interested. But as long as the competition improves on their offerings, it will take that much longer for Infiniti to get its footing in other trim lines. But I give Nissan/Infiniti credit: they have risen from the ashes thus far, if they continue the momentum, they may yet get close to Lexus in years to come. For now, they are a distant runners-up in the luxury car space.

Gojirra99

I just sat in a 04 Q45 at the dealer today, tried all the front & back seats, and having test driven the 01-03 LS430, it's obvious to me that the LS is significantly more comfortable & coddling, & exudes a level of quality & craftsmanship not matched by the Q. The Q is still a nice luxury car for its price though, and an excellent bargain if bought used.

theRain04

Apparently you missed my point. Let me explain it so you can better understand. My POINT was, that all this talk of Infiniti being invisible or nobody cares about Infiniti is nothing but nonsense. The Infiniti name carries alot of weight to people who don't buy or cannot afford luxury cars. It is at the same level as Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW for non-Lexus fanatics. I did not say they were MORE impressed by the fact that I would buy an Infiniti OVER a Lexus. But my '99 Lexus is not new anymore and they would be more impressed if I bought a NEW Infiniti as they would If i said I was buying a "new" Mercedes, Lexus, etc. Obviously, if i said I was buying a new Camry they would not be impressed.

Anyway, you say Infiniti is not "there yet" when compared to Lexus. And sales-wise, you are correct. While, the Q and the M45 could be considered "duds" to use your word, they are only duds because not many people buy them. Certainly the quality is there. As far as the other vehicles, they are quite successful. I don't know where you live, but i see TONS of I35's on the road. Probably more so than ES's. The G35 is an obvious success, in either its coupe or 4-door sedan version. And the FX is a winner as well. The Q56 is just coming out now, so how on Earth could you possibly call it a "dud" when it hasn't even had the chance to sell ?? Maybe you were just trying to exagerate your point. Yeah, that's what it must be. BTW, Lexus has a "dud" of its own called the IS300. Sales are down, and the quality from what i've heard is not so Lexus-like. Maybe the redo will strengthen its image. Just like the redo's of the M45 and Q45 may strengthen their images.

You say it is going to take a miracle to get those cars off the mopping floor, but honestly it doesn't take too much. Some new styling and a decent advertising campaign is all it takes. The quality is there. The G35 came out of nowehere and became a huge success. Don't be surprised if the same thing happens with the M45. If Lexus sticks with that hideous new GS (looks like i wont be upgrading afterall), they could lose alot of business in that category to Infiniti come next year.

Gojirra99

therain04, you know Infiniti still has a brand name recognition problem when there're still many people that can't spell Infiniti(y) right, just look at your other thread about Infiniti & Acura in the Car Chat forum.

theRain04

I know, tell me about it. It's so aggravating that people STILL don't know how to spell it. I think people are just used to seeing Infinity (as in the car stereo) spelled with a "y" instead of an "i". In the dictionary it's also spelled with a "y", so maybe that has something to do with it. But you are right, there is a brand name recognition problem there.

LexFather

Sorry but B.S. No one gives a fig about Infiniti but Nissan fans. Sorry, that is the way it is. Only the new G35s have brought some sort of light onto the brand (and they deserve it). No one knows what they are or what they look like. No one cares. Hell just do the "rapper" test. Rappers name Benzs, Lexus, Caddy and no mention of Infiniti. THey don't care and they know their listners don't care (and these are young people). There is nothing wrong with the cars but you really have to stand out in the even more crowded luxury market. 12 years of M30s, G20s, I30s, Q45s, QX4s, J30s didn't help a bit.

So true. Just today at work, a lady sent out an e-mail stating "an Infinity QX4 left it's lights on". Classic

It's funny but mention Lexus and people's eyes open up. People aspire to own a Lexus. Similar to BMW or Benz.

theRain04

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
[B]Sorry but B.S. No one gives a fig about Infiniti but Nissan fans. Sorry, that is the way it is. Only the new G35s have brought some sort of light onto the brand (and they deserve it). No one knows what they are or what they look like. No one cares. Hell just do the "rapper" test. Rappers name Benzs, Lexus, Caddy and no mention of Infiniti. THey don't care and they know their listners don't care (and these are young people). There is nothing wrong with the cars but you really have to stand out in the even more crowded luxury market. 12 years of M30s, G20s, I30s, Q45s, QX4s, J30s didn't help a bit.

LOL, right, cuz nothing screams "class" more than having the approval of your local rapper. Dude, that comment must be a joke, or maybe you didn't proof read what you wrote. In any event, the fact remains that the Infiniti name holds just as much weight as the Lexus name. Lexus has more money, thus more advertising, thus more sales. Let's face it, as good as Lexus is, and as good of a reputation it has for being a high quality car, it is STILL in the shadows of Mercedes and BMW when it comes to being a status symbol. Mercedes, probably more so than BMW, is the ultimate status symbol. Will that change ? maybe. Can things change for Infiniti as well ? maybe. Only time will tell. But without being biased (as you obviously are), you have to know that the general public respects Infiniti just as much as the other brands. They are all luxury cars, and all have a certain level of prestige that your common car does not.

LexFather

U missed the jest of my argument concerning "bling bling". Wrong, they have a better product, for the last 14 years. I agree. You cannot be serious here. The big 3 luxury car companies are univerally recognized as Benz, BMW and Lexus. The general public and every major magazine recognizes this. Hell just read this. It dismisses the LS 430 but never mentions the Q45. Typical for the past 14 years.

http://www.forbes.com/2004/03/15/cx_...aymatchup.html

Sal Collaziano

The Lexus LS430 is not only more comfortable inside - it's more refined as well. There's less road noise, wind noise and has a softer ride. Unless there's a worldwide conspiracy and every reviewer is lying...

Milla...

Well how about we just say Infiniti is not popular. When it comes to status symbols Infiniti is forgotten sorry to say but thats reality, not to say that wont change or isn't changing. Case in point do you watch MTV cribs rappers aren't always featured, there are others too, Basketball stars, producers, etc and never once do you see any Infinities in their drive ways. Basically Celebs don't drive them I live in LA so I know, and seeing the sort of influance they have on the general public as to whats in and whats not has a bearing on the whole appeal factor when it comes to cars. I do believe thats the point 1Sicklex was making. When I go out of state I see even less of these cars (mid west love their american cars) you see Caddy's and Lincolns. The argument here isn't or shouldn't be about quality or luxury because the Infiniti has both and as we can see the comparisons made of both Lexus and Infiniti are subjective. The issue here is popularity, the Infiniti has none. The G35 and FX is its only hope but unfortunately that may and most likely attract attention to the two only, it still does nothing for the rest of the line, so who nows maybe from here foward things will look up for them...as to their popularity.