theRain04

Not exactly. The American public recognizes it, not the world, or the universe. Lexus doesn't exist outside of this country as of yet, so let's put that into perspective. Toyota's are well regarded as fine automobiles, but don't quite carry a prestigeous name to go along with that. Of course, Toyota realizes this, that is why they have the intentions of going global with the Lexus name. Good idea on their part. I'm sure more than half the people on this board wouldn't be caught dead in any of these cars if they carried the Toyota badge from day 1. Again, Toyota realized this, thus came the name "Lexus".

You say that every major magazine recognizes the "big 3". Well, every major magazine is also paid lots and lots of money by the "big 3" to give excellent reviews on these cars, so their opinions are quite biased. The only reputable source is of course, Consumer Reports. The same way a rich idiot from Texas could win a major election, is the same way a rich car company could receive many approvals from different magazines. It all comes down to $$$.

Gojirra99

The Lexus brand is available in many countries in the world, see the LEXUS Worldwide Link.

It's just that Toyota has mainly concentrated it's efforts to market Lexus cars in America in the past 15 years as it is the world's largesr car market. This is going to change in the future too.

LexFather

If u look at Consumer Reports, I think every or almost Every Lexus is a recommended buy. Thanks for making another point for me.

theRain04

Of course almost every Lexus is a recommended buy. So is any other top end car. They all have strong points and weak points. But Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, Infiniti, and Audi, are overall the best of the best. Mercedes has status, BMW has performance, Lexus has reliability, and Infiniti and Audi have exclusivity. Not that one is better than the other or vice versa. Lexus doesn't have half the performance that BMW's have. But BMW's don't have half the reliability of Lexus's. Infiniti's and Audi's are unique and the least seen on the road, but have every bit of performance and luxury as a Mercedes Benz. People like different cars for different reasons. I think people who go for the "big 3" as you call it, have strong passions for their favorite brands "strong point". People who want a Mercedes want STATUS. They want people to say "wow, look at that". People who want a BMW want PERFORMANCE. They want to blow people off the road with their "ultimate driving machine". People who want Lexus want RELIABILITY and to be PAMPERED. They want to cruise around in their comfy little cabin with peace of mind. Then you have Audi and Infiniti who are sort of the "jack of all trades" in the luxury car maket. Honestly, I think that is probably their weak point. People who love cars have strong passions about their cars. They want the best of what THEY believe is most important to THEM. No other cars carry those extremes better than Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus. Infinitis and Audis do everything very well, but they don't excel in just one category. They both offer great performance, luxury, reliability, and a certain level of status. But they aren't symbols of any of those things. THAT is their problem. It's not a problem for someone like me who enjoys having a car that is good at everything. But for people who have these strong passions about one or 2 aspects of a car, it is.

XeroK00L

While I agree with most of your points, I have to disagree with your use on Infiniti and Audi of the word "exclusivity", a word that refers to the quality of being unattainable for the vast majority, a word that in the automotive world is usually only reserved for brands selling above the $100k mark, such as Ferrari, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Maybach and so on. Instead, "rarity" or "uniqueness" (or "least seen on the road" as you mentioned) are probably better fitting words to describe the qualities that the top-of-the-line Infiniti and Audi possess.

Just remember that whereas almost all exclusive automobiles are rare, many "rare" automobiles are NOT exclusive.

Gojirra99

No Mercedes nor BMW nor Audi nor Jaguar is a recommended buy by the magazine except for the 3 series this year. Last year, the old 5 series is the only recommended European model.

bluestar

OK. Infiniti is a great car. It is a luxury car. It is a reliable car. It is well known lux car in its sector. It is at par with the Lexuses, MBs, Bimmers, Jags, Bentleys, Rolls Royce's, etc of this world.... Infiniti is the next best thing to sliced bread !

theRain04: satisfied ?

The fact of the matter is that regardless of our biases, the buying public speaks loud and clear about thei preferences in automobiles. Sales-wise, Infiniti sells SQUAT compared to its peers in the lux space. Don't even speak about how the Q is doing sales-wise.

I called the QX56 a DUD, even when its only hitting dealerships this month. Why ? Its predecessor the QX4 was a DUD, and looking at the exterior of this QX56 beast, it ain't pretty to behold. So my prediction is it will follow the path of its replacement - the Pathfinder-based QX4 and it will be a DUD as well. You are welcome to disagree, and we'll see when the dust settles and the sales numbers come in next year.

theRain04

Lexus is the greatest car in the universe. No, wait, Lexus is the greatest car in the galaxy !
bluestar: satisfied ?

In my previous post, I stated what motivates people to buy the cars that they decide to buy. I talked about people having specific "passions" which drive them to make the decisions that they inevitably make. The buying public speaks loud and clear about their preferences because they have very specific desires on what makes them happy. Who ever said that having the popular choice was the BEST choice ? Maybe, you are just another sheep following the herd. Lexus IS the most bought luxury car in the US. Doesn't neccessarily make it the best in everything. BMW has better performance than a Lexus. Mercedes has more status and class than a Lexus. Infiniti and Audi have better handling and are much more unique than a Lexus. Lexus beats all the others by reliability, and only slightly edges out Infiniti at that. So, you can go on and on all you want and say "well if everyone else is doing it, i guess it must be right", but that just proves my sheep theory.

Oh, you "predict" the Q56 will be a dud ?? Well, I predict the new M45 will be a huge success and take away mucho business from that soon to be Maxima photo copy known as the 2006 GS Sedan (I still chuckle at how the new Lexus GS looks more like a Nissan than the new M45 does). Let's also not forget that the Q56 is in the same category as the LX470 and GX470. So, we can compare sales numbers at the end of the year if you want, but I guarantee the Q will outsell the desperately in need of a makeover LX, seeing as it is its main competition in that class.

bluestar

theRain04: We Lexus owners are sheeps, eh ? Just great !

And the 2006 Lexus GS being a Max copy ? Just a quick question for you: Have you actually SEEN this car in person ? Oh wait, all you have seen are pics, right ? And where were you when Nissan stole the GS design for their new Altima ? Now it is Lexus copying Nissan ? Hehehehe.....

So the QX56 wants a piece of the LX ?. Let me remind you that despite the LX's long-tooth design-wise, it still outsells its competition. And an unpoven new comer like the ugly duckling QX56 will just unseat the best luxury f/s SUV on the planet ? Says who ?

Let's not get side-tracked here tho'. We are talking about the Q45 vs the LS430, right ? The LS beats the Q in all areas except engine hp paper-specs. Better ride, better handling, better perfomance, quieter, lowest NVH, more luxury, better ergonomics, better Nav system, better sound system, better resale, higher volume of sales, more repeat buyers, and the list goes on and on...So how exactly do we say the Q competes with the LS ? Except on paper, of course....

theRain04

Better ride ? subjective
better handling ? Q45, hands down. The LS is a boat.
better performance ? subjective
quieter ? about equal
more luxury ? equal (what does "more" luxury mean exactly ??)
better ergonomics ? about equal
better Nav system ? subjective
better sound system ? LS
better resale ? LS
higher volume of sales ? only important to sheep
more repeat buyers ? again, only important to sheep
better engine ? Q45
better tranny ? LS
better value ? Q45

all in all, it's about equal. The only clear advantage the LS has is in "volumes of sales". Hey, Ford sells more Taurus's than Lexus sells LS's. Doesn't make the Taurus a better car, never will.

Gojirra99

I can assure you there are a lot less sheeps among Lexus buyers than the buyers of the other two top traditonal luxury brands.

bluestar

Take a test drive of the 04 LS430 (6-speed/290hp/18" wheels, sport susp) and the 04 Q45 (premium/18" wheels/340hp/5-speed) and judge for yourself on your claims that the Q outhandles and outpeforms the LS. No one in their right minds will judge the Q ahead of the LS in these areas. Except, of course, die-hard Nissan/Infiniti sheeps Maybe the Q is a better value than the LS, BUT only if you buy the Q used letting the shmuck who buys it new take the big depreciation hit.

Sal Collaziano

You're right. That's the problem. Where's the one place that Infiniti seperates itself from the crowd? If you want STATUS, you choose Mercedes. If you want PERFORMANCE, you choose BMW. If you want COMFORT and RELIABILITY, you choose Lexus...

Let me put it to you like this... On the New York Yankees, Luis Sojo is a good comparison to Infiniti. hehe. He's the "jack of all trades". He's good at first base. He's good at second base. He's good at shortstop. He's good at third base. And he's good in the outfield.. But he's NO Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez... Buuuuut, he's pretty good at everything..

If you ask me - and you (I bet) - you'd rather have Derek Jeter or ARod over Luis Sojo...

Anyway. Here's your comparison

Better ride ? subjective - Forget about better ride. Change that to Softer ride: LS

better handling ? Q45, hands down. The LS is a boat.

better performance ? subjective Subjective?: LS

quieter ? about equal About equal? Honk/Buzz. Wrong. LS

more luxury ? equal (what does "more" luxury mean exactly ??) There are more luxury options and it's more comfortable inside. LS

better ergonomics ? about equal

better Nav system ? subjective

better sound system ? LS

better resale ? LS

higher volume of sales ? only important to sheep Only important to sheep? It's damn important to Nissan. And you can take that to the bank! LS

more repeat buyers ? again, only important to sheep Yeah, who cares about customers anyway? LS

better engine ? Q45 Is it better? How?

better tranny ? LS

better value ? Q45


Are we finished yet?

theRain04

no, not yet.
Nissan has always built better engines than Toyota. It's very close, but the edge goes to Nissan. They get better torque and much more horsepower than any Toyota V6 or V8. Now having said that, have you actually driven both vehicles and compared them to each other ? Probably not. Why would you ? You seem to be so incredibly biased anyway, why give the competition a chance ? I would love to hear how you think the LS has more luxury options ? please list them for me, so I can make the distinction. And you say the LS is quieter than the Q, but that is simply not true. All reviews say that both cars are about equal in terms of quietness. There are even some that claim the Q to be more quiet than the LS. So we can say that's about equal. The LS does have a softer ride, but that also translates a bit to a "floaty-boaty" feel. Doesn't make for great handling. Mercedes seems to have found the best balance between softness and good handling. Neither the LS nor the Q really excels in this department, but if I have to give an edge, I would say the Q. It just handles the corners better than the LS.

Brett

Ummmm, since it takes about 12 months to get out of negative equity on an LS and about 59 months on a Q, how is the Q a better value?

exclusivity? Buy an Aztek. Bad sales figures dont translate to exclusivity. It means nobody wants them