Brett

C'mon Sal we're all adults here, nobody is flaming or anything. Ive been to your site cadillacforums.com a few times and things get pretty crazy around there too

theRain04

Ultimately, I think alot of people's final decisions when buying a car come down to looks. I am the same way to an extent. I recently went to BMW and Mercedes-Benz and sat inside their vehicles. I thought the BMW's had just awful ambiance inside. Everything seemed so dull and depressing. I thought to myself, "If I buy this car, i'm going to have to look at this depressing dull environment every day of my life". I don't care how great it handles, if i don't like the way it looks, it's not worth it to me. I felt more the same about the MB's as well. Although nicer than the BMW's, I still felt the interior seemed cheap to me. It was "nice", but not nicer than the other 3 competitors (lexus, infiniti, and audi). I personally love the interiors of the Audi's. I think they are somewhat german-like in their "cold" sorta feel, yet still maintain to have a very high luxury and contemporary feel. I feel the Infiniti Q is very coddling and luxurious and has a very rich look to it. The LS is very luxurious and the quality of the materials used are probably the best of any car. If ultimate luxury and comfort is your #1 priority, then you will indeed want the LS. The seats are the most comfortable of any car out there and offers numerous luxury features. Overall, I guess it comes down to personal taste. I loved the look of the 2000 LS, but i'm just not a big fan of the newer body style or interior. It's still very nice, just not for me. If you like the style of the LS, then you can't go wrong with the rest of it (performance, reliablilty, features). But my point in this whole thread was to point out that the Q45 offers pretty much the same thing and is a great alternative to the LS. Not to say it is BETTER than the LS, but on many many levels, it is equal, and does surpass the LS in some ways. Either car is great buy and a much more intelligent purchase than what the germans have to offer.

Brett

I think we found our common ground

LexFather

The fact remains, if the Q45 were so good or great, it would be a great seller or respected. It gets neither. The car is not even included in ANY car magazine comparo's of flagship sedans. It is a dud ala the Acura RL. Cars that are okay but in this competitive field, offer nothing but rebates to buyers.The Q45 has been a dud for 14 years now. 14 YEARS. Nissan can't figure out in 14 YEARS what top-end luxury car buyers want?

ANd please don't go there with Nissan makes better engines. Nissan has the incredible VQ and the 2.6 I-6 in the GT-R. Toyota has their 4.3 V-8 and 2JZ. Both make excellent engines.
You can buy a 2002 Q45 for 35k in Atlanta. A very tempting offer. 2001 LS base 430s are going for low 40s. Q45, just doesn't have the mojo.

theRain04

You know, this thread could have been over, but anyway...

You say such things with conviction as if you really know what you are talking about or that your word is law. Well, it certainly isn't, and you've produced very little info to back up your claims. What makes the Q45 a dud ? the fact that it doesn't sell well ? The Audi A8L doesn't sell well either, doesn't make it a dud. You say Nissan can't figure out in 14 years what top-end luxury car buyers want. However, the Q45 offers everything the LS offers (outside of a 5-can cooler in the backseat) at a better price. You have not proven anything by saying "oh, but Lexus is better, Lexus is better". You think what you want, but don't dare diminish the Q45 capabilities or what it has to offer to its owner. You seem very brainwashed and that is quite sad. You sorta remind me of those people who INSIST Mercedes is still the best of the best. They only go by reputation and know nothing from personal experience. So, before you continue to knock the Q, you may want to research your facts some more and try to come up with something where the LS is "clearly better" than the Q. All you keep saying is "Lexus sells more cars so it must be better", but yet you have nothing to back it up. Unless you can come up with some facts to support your claims, I have nothing else to say to you.

Oh, and I can "go there" all I want to and say that Nissan makes a better engine than Toyota and alot of people (maybe not on this board, but in general) would agree with me. There is no contest when it comes to 6 cylinders. Nissan makes one of the best, if not THE best in the world. Toyota does not make a better V6 than Nissan. Now, talking V8's, that's another story. The V8 in the Q produces more horsepower and more torque than the LS. 0-60 times prove these cars to be about equal, however the LS has a 6-speed tranny vs. the Q's 5-speed, thus leveling the race so to speak. However, I will admit that the LS's tranny has always been better than the Q's. Toyota does make better trannys than Nissan, IMO. But we are talking engines here and these are the specs:

Infiniti Q45: 340HP and 333lbs of Torque
Lexus LS: 290HP and 320lbs of Torque

The Q engine is stronger than the LS. Both engine are quiet and smooth and deliver great power. However, the slight edge has to go to the Q.

You've also got to remember that the LS is currently using the same exact engine as it did a decade ago. THE SAME ENGINE !! They have tweaked it just once in those 10 years and have done NOTHING since. It's a great engine, but they have not produced any other V8's since back in the day. The Q's engine is only 3 years old. When Toyota starts producing several different V8's and/or supercharged alternatives, then you can make the claim that Toyota makes the best V8. Until then, you won't convince me otherwise. Toyota has only really developed ONE good V8, but it still isn't better than what Nissan can and has produced IMO.

daryll40

Speaking of the Acura RL...why did they drop the "Legend" name? That second generation Legend was a great car and priced right.

sgfq4

They are both good cars.I have owned 4 Q's 90,94,99 and02 Sport and 3 LS' 92,95and 04 sport ML . Sold the 02 for a CLK55 but went back to Lexus. The 02 Q was great but the interior of the 04 ML is better and easier to use.With the sport package is the best of all of them. The resale cannot be ignored but ultimately the new technology of the 04 made my final decision.If I could I'd kept all of them.

theRain04

Hey, it's good to hear from someone who actually owned both of these cars. Can you maybe go into detail about each of the car's strong points and their weak points ?? How would you compare the LS and the Q. Would you say one performed better than the other ? Would you say one handled better than the other ? would you say that they are about equal in a lot of ways ? your input on this debate would be greatly appreciated

LexFather

Sigh. Well if the old 1998 LS 400 engine made 290hp with a 4.0 liter engine with the same 0-60 times as the 4.5 liter 340hp liter 2002 Q45, bigger IS NOT better.
Then the new 4.3 liter LS 430 with the "only" 290hp is quicker than the larger engine as well. Superior enginering? Dude, have you forgotten Infinitit's shady history? The LAST generation Q45 should have been called the Q41 as it was a smaller displacement engine. 4.1 liters. But Infiniti insisited on called it the Q45. Good for 266hp. You haven't read much on this site have you?
Supercharged GS 400
Twin Turbo GS 400
Twin Turbo GS 430
Maybe Toyota does not FI from the factory but plenty of tuners do. Your entitled to your opinion Nissan develps a better V-8. Let's not forget in 1998 the Lexus GS 400 was the fastest accelerating sedan on earth (until the AMG/M/R cars came).

LexFather

Acura found out in it's focus groups (sometimes not useful at all) that people referred to the cars as Integras and Legends and not Acuras. THe Legend was the best Acura ever made (to this day) and to this day people think of LEGEND and not Acura. So they decided to switch to these silly names no one cares about or remembers. The Legend became the RL. Didn't help 40% of the parts were carryover from the Legend. And they dropped the 230hp engine and gave it the 210hp one only (it now is bumped up to 225).
CL (which is now discontinued)
TL
RL
TSX
NSX
MDX
SLX (the rebadged Trooper that was a dud)

To make things more confusing, the cars when redesigned look nothing like the previous version. And now they bring the Type-S badge for 3 years then drop it. A pathetic business example at branding.
THe RL like the Q45 has been a huge failure. Acura fired the RL design team midway through the new 2nd gen RL (which should be out this fall), as they just wanted a whole new approach and people to the car.

theRain04

The RL and the Q45 are nothing alike. Compare apples with apples, not oranges. The RL is comparable to an ES330 or an I35. The RL does not have a V8 engine, so it cannot be compared to a vehicle that does. If that's the case, then maybe we should also compare the IS330 to an S-Class, whataya say ?

Sal Collaziano

I hear ya!

The Acura RL is in the same class as the Q45 and LS.. It's not nearly as good but their made for the same buyer...

Milla...

I believe he's comparing their failure, not the actual cars. I say that apple and the orange have a common denominator.

BrickHead

These three cars are not in the same class and are not made for the same buyers. They are the flagship sedans of these brands but the similarity ends there. I am not trying to be harsh, don't take it personally.

Sal Collaziano

Maybe I should have said they're intended to be in the same class? I think the RL is targeting LS and Q45 buyers.. No? I could be wrong...