Why are Lexus vehicles so (too??) expensive? (more)
11-29-05, 08:39 PM
#16
Intermediate
I forgot to add that the oil change on some Ferrari's is $700 and a brake job goes for $6000 pads only. Rotors will do you in about $24,000.
Fact is in relation to the higher end of cars, Lex parts arent that bad. Maybe too many people own them who really dont have the means.
Fact is in relation to the higher end of cars, Lex parts arent that bad. Maybe too many people own them who really dont have the means.
11-29-05, 08:58 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by dfkd
I forgot to add that the oil change on some Ferrari's is $700 and a brake job goes for $6000 pads only. Rotors will do you in about $24,000.
Fact is in relation to the higher end of cars, Lex parts arent that bad. Maybe too many people own them who really dont have the means.
Fact is in relation to the higher end of cars, Lex parts arent that bad. Maybe too many people own them who really dont have the means.
11-29-05, 10:57 PM
#19
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Lexus - Too Expensive?
Let me add the following:
*Yes, the #1 advantage of a Lexus is that it never feels old/worn out. . .I'd still be driving my ES300 if it had not conked out a week ago. . .someone here posted the alledged "LS460" photos and my first reaction was. . .it sort-of looks like the ES (remember it came out in 1992)!
*You CANNOT realistically compare Lexus with Subaru or Kia. . .but there is some validity in. . .
Comparing Lexus with some of the higher end Toyotas
(because, to date, they have shared some of the same design/mfg. platforms--not to mention ENGINES--and Lexus in Japan has been known as a Toyota. . .fully loaded Avalons are definitely "business class" as Lexus is "first class". . .back in the 1980's and much of the 1990's there wasn't a 'business class". . .just "coach" and "luxury". . .now we have three definitive classes of service in auto transportation. . .this is a problem for Lexus and the other luxury brands. . .but Toyota most definitely contributed to--and may have led the charge to--the creation of the 'business class"!)
AND
Comparing Lexus with its intended peer class: BMW 7 Series. . .MBZ S Class. . .Audi A8
In 1989-90 there was little doubt or controversy that start up Lexus won HANDS DOWN. . .let me repeat that. . .HANDS DOWN. . .in ALL FOUR(4) of the following critical categories:
1. Under the hood performance
2. Inside cabin experience (luxury/comfort/feel. . .hearing music the way Germans still will not!)
3. Out the door sticker price
4. Ongoing cost of ownership
Read the "Lexus Story" (2004 - given to new owners - still available at Amazon). . .the LS400 was a bit hit because of ALL FOUR FACTORS. . .in fact, it was about $15-20K cheaper at the time than the BMW or MBZ. . .Bill Gates (Microsoft founder and mega billionaire) ordered one immediately from a local PNW dealer!
Flash forward to 2005. . .the Germans aren't stupid or going to give up market share so easily. ..at least not BMW or Audi these days. . .but Lexus, to my sense, seems less than aggressive, even a bit staid and more interested in doing different things than what got it on the map: going down market. . .to sell IS' to spoiled rich kids. . .luxury SUVS that still account for 40%+ of North America sales. . .and aggressive hybrid models that would keep up with Bill Ford!
So. . .about those Germans:
Go test drive the BMW 750i. . .be objective. . .I had a hard time doing this at first because I generally dislike BMWs but love my Lexus. . .but I got blow away. . .the 750 WINS the #1 ABOVE. . .it's an incredible vehicle. . .the LS430 is slow and sluggish in comparison. . .but the LS clearly wins the #2 and 3 category. . .and #4 ONLY IF YOU LOOK AT COST OF OWNERSHIP AFTER THE WARRANTY PERIOD.
So. . .in 1989-90 Lexus wins HANDS DOWN IN ALL FOUR CATEGORIES. . .but in 2005 it only comfortably wins in two, possibly three of the four categories. . .and for those who believe that a $65-70+K car MUST demonstrate closer comparability to the #1 performance category. . .the on balance margin of attractiveness is less than acceptable. . .having cold soft drink access from the back seat (in the "ultra luxury" LS package) cannot realistically compensate for what is lacking under the hood. . .unless you're only looking for a Japanese made limo!
Perhaps in starting a "brand", you have to win in all four categories. . .but once you're a winner (and Lexus is with 15 years of hard earned proof!). . .you can pull back. . .but then again how long did it take the Germans to be the world class luxury car? We cannot evaluate Lexus just by what we see in North America. . .the fact is they do not yet have the same track record in Europe or Asia and may even just be starting!
To the original posting comment: I do not believe Lexus is expensive for what you get. . .I'm happy to pay the bill and "know" they will continue making quality, timeless models and with lower costs of ownership than the German luxury brands. . .but I would like to see Lexus go back to what made them successful, especially with their flagship model, the LS. . .it is, for me, one of the litmus tests of their staying power and success.
I'm going to wait for the LS460. . .in the mean time. . .after happily owning an ES300 and seeing it blow up a week before Thanksgiving. . .I immediately bought a wonderfully maintained 1993 LS400. . .it still is an incredible car some 12 years later!
Thank you for reading!
*Yes, the #1 advantage of a Lexus is that it never feels old/worn out. . .I'd still be driving my ES300 if it had not conked out a week ago. . .someone here posted the alledged "LS460" photos and my first reaction was. . .it sort-of looks like the ES (remember it came out in 1992)!
*You CANNOT realistically compare Lexus with Subaru or Kia. . .but there is some validity in. . .
Comparing Lexus with some of the higher end Toyotas
(because, to date, they have shared some of the same design/mfg. platforms--not to mention ENGINES--and Lexus in Japan has been known as a Toyota. . .fully loaded Avalons are definitely "business class" as Lexus is "first class". . .back in the 1980's and much of the 1990's there wasn't a 'business class". . .just "coach" and "luxury". . .now we have three definitive classes of service in auto transportation. . .this is a problem for Lexus and the other luxury brands. . .but Toyota most definitely contributed to--and may have led the charge to--the creation of the 'business class"!)
AND
Comparing Lexus with its intended peer class: BMW 7 Series. . .MBZ S Class. . .Audi A8
In 1989-90 there was little doubt or controversy that start up Lexus won HANDS DOWN. . .let me repeat that. . .HANDS DOWN. . .in ALL FOUR(4) of the following critical categories:
1. Under the hood performance
2. Inside cabin experience (luxury/comfort/feel. . .hearing music the way Germans still will not!)
3. Out the door sticker price
4. Ongoing cost of ownership
Read the "Lexus Story" (2004 - given to new owners - still available at Amazon). . .the LS400 was a bit hit because of ALL FOUR FACTORS. . .in fact, it was about $15-20K cheaper at the time than the BMW or MBZ. . .Bill Gates (Microsoft founder and mega billionaire) ordered one immediately from a local PNW dealer!
Flash forward to 2005. . .the Germans aren't stupid or going to give up market share so easily. ..at least not BMW or Audi these days. . .but Lexus, to my sense, seems less than aggressive, even a bit staid and more interested in doing different things than what got it on the map: going down market. . .to sell IS' to spoiled rich kids. . .luxury SUVS that still account for 40%+ of North America sales. . .and aggressive hybrid models that would keep up with Bill Ford!
So. . .about those Germans:
Go test drive the BMW 750i. . .be objective. . .I had a hard time doing this at first because I generally dislike BMWs but love my Lexus. . .but I got blow away. . .the 750 WINS the #1 ABOVE. . .it's an incredible vehicle. . .the LS430 is slow and sluggish in comparison. . .but the LS clearly wins the #2 and 3 category. . .and #4 ONLY IF YOU LOOK AT COST OF OWNERSHIP AFTER THE WARRANTY PERIOD.
So. . .in 1989-90 Lexus wins HANDS DOWN IN ALL FOUR CATEGORIES. . .but in 2005 it only comfortably wins in two, possibly three of the four categories. . .and for those who believe that a $65-70+K car MUST demonstrate closer comparability to the #1 performance category. . .the on balance margin of attractiveness is less than acceptable. . .having cold soft drink access from the back seat (in the "ultra luxury" LS package) cannot realistically compensate for what is lacking under the hood. . .unless you're only looking for a Japanese made limo!
Perhaps in starting a "brand", you have to win in all four categories. . .but once you're a winner (and Lexus is with 15 years of hard earned proof!). . .you can pull back. . .but then again how long did it take the Germans to be the world class luxury car? We cannot evaluate Lexus just by what we see in North America. . .the fact is they do not yet have the same track record in Europe or Asia and may even just be starting!
To the original posting comment: I do not believe Lexus is expensive for what you get. . .I'm happy to pay the bill and "know" they will continue making quality, timeless models and with lower costs of ownership than the German luxury brands. . .but I would like to see Lexus go back to what made them successful, especially with their flagship model, the LS. . .it is, for me, one of the litmus tests of their staying power and success.
I'm going to wait for the LS460. . .in the mean time. . .after happily owning an ES300 and seeing it blow up a week before Thanksgiving. . .I immediately bought a wonderfully maintained 1993 LS400. . .it still is an incredible car some 12 years later!
Thank you for reading!
11-30-05, 09:19 AM
#20
It has already been said above.
Quality parts, good production values and well thought engineering combine to contribute to a product that is above what the others offer. Every car has some issues and Lexus is no different. Given the pro's & con's, I give a
to Toyota for this level of car.
Quality parts, good production values and well thought engineering combine to contribute to a product that is above what the others offer. Every car has some issues and Lexus is no different. Given the pro's & con's, I give a
to Toyota for this level of car.
11-30-05, 09:44 PM
#21
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Finally, its natural to ask "is a LS 430 worth twice as much as a Subie or Hyundai". Now we should also ask "Is a S600 or 760 BMW worth twice as much as a LS"?
From a performance standpoint, the Mitsubishi EVO can dust, hang or beat most any performance car, for $30,000. So are $250,000 Ferraris worth it? Etc etc?
Clearly in our world, people think so. Rationally speaking, I see where your point is.
From a performance standpoint, the Mitsubishi EVO can dust, hang or beat most any performance car, for $30,000. So are $250,000 Ferraris worth it? Etc etc?
Clearly in our world, people think so. Rationally speaking, I see where your point is.
LOL I knew it ..where is my BS flag
12-01-05, 05:09 AM
#22
This guy is a TROLL guys. He posted the EXACT SAME POST over on the Mercedes Forum (MBWorld Discussion Forum). Here is the link:
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
12-01-05, 06:46 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by rjm
This guy is a TROLL guys. He posted the EXACT SAME POST over on the Mercedes Forum (MBWorld Discussion Forum). Here is the link:
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
rjm - you beat me to the punch...have you checked the Bimmer forums yet?
12-01-05, 06:47 AM
#24
Originally Posted by rjm
This guy is a TROLL guys. He posted the EXACT SAME POST over on the Mercedes Forum (MBWorld Discussion Forum). Here is the link:
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
I didnt like this thread from the start. Thanks for the heads up, rjm.
This guy has wasted a lot of valuable time from our respected board members.
12-01-05, 08:25 AM
#25
Originally Posted by rjm
This guy is a TROLL guys. He posted the EXACT SAME POST over on the Mercedes Forum (MBWorld Discussion Forum). Here is the link:
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/sho...8&page=1&pp=50
12-01-05, 09:11 AM
#26
Originally Posted by PHX ATC
rjm - you beat me to the punch...have you checked the Bimmer forums yet?
Keep 'em flying and beware of the Kool-Aid Drinkers over on the other side
. rjm
12-01-05, 10:30 AM
#28
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How I became a lexus owner!
I been following this thread since day one, And there are many good points. The fact is that for the money you will not find a better car. How I became a lexus owner: First lexus I drove was a 93 GS3 owned by my bother back in 1999. I sat in the car and it felt great, At that moment I new I
had to look into geting my owne. I kept his car for a week. till I took delivery of my LX470 in 00.
Two years later I took ownership of a preowne 99 SC4. Now I'm the proud onwer of a LX/SC, and my next car will be a LEXUS. Yea I would like my car to perform more like a BMW or MB but
keep in mind that with that performance there is a premiun. Take BMW if you own one than you better find a good service-manager cause you will see him alot! Take any car it takes money to keep running (some more than oders BMW/MB) .But any ways the point is a LEXUS will allways be a LEXUS and no othe brand can take that away. The problem is that alot of people think that lexus is just an over-price toyota, and this are the same people that never sat in a lexus or driven one. I just like for people to stop comparing lexus to toyota and other brands that are not in the same class. LEXUS vs Hyundai (you know who my money is on) . JWS2 would you like to trade that LS in for a sonata? Would you? You cant compare chicken **** to chicken breast, or can you? 
Lexus is doing great as car maker the service could be better, But they are people just like everyone here.
had to look into geting my owne. I kept his car for a week.
till I took delivery of my LX470 in 00.Two years later I took ownership of a preowne 99 SC4. Now I'm the proud onwer of a LX/SC, and my next car will be a LEXUS. Yea I would like my car to perform more like a BMW or MB but
keep in mind that with that performance there is a premiun. Take BMW if you own one than you better find a good service-manager cause you will see him alot! Take any car it takes money to keep running (some more than oders BMW/MB)
.But any ways the point is a LEXUS will allways be a LEXUS and no othe brand can take that away. The problem is that alot of people think that lexus is just an over-price toyota, and this are the same people that never sat in a lexus or driven one. I just like for people to stop comparing lexus to toyota and other brands that are not in the same class. LEXUS vs Hyundai (you know who my money is on) . JWS2 would you like to trade that LS in for a sonata? Would you? You cant compare chicken **** to chicken breast, or can you? Lexus is doing great as car maker the service could be better, But they are people just like everyone here.
12-01-05, 11:21 AM
#29
Originally Posted by SC400-V8
What the hell is a troll?
I get the feeling it is a poser who puts across that he's older and more successful than he actually is.
I get the feeling it is a poser who puts across that he's older and more successful than he actually is.
12-01-05, 12:50 PM
#30
Originally Posted by SC400-V8
What the hell is a troll?
One who trolls forums like this posting fallacious information in an attempt to stir up controversary, disagreement, and argumentation.