LS400 lunges when you drop it in (drive) '94
01-30-08, 09:10 PM
#47
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01-31-08, 06:30 AM
#48
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BIGBADDAD,
You mentioned you recently had the tranny fluid changed.. Was it flushed or just changed... And if it was flushed, they put back in Toyota Type 4 fluid... My LS had the Torque Converter chatter because the previous owner didn't have type 4 in it....I assume you did this..
It definitely sounds like a prob w/Transmission to me, specifically is sounds like something may be stuck in a valve body passage.. Because of the way it bangs and smooths out...
ANd I kind of rule out clutch pack or TCC clutch because You wouldn't have banging in upper gears if that was the case which would be very rare, almost always with worn out clutch packs you have slippage usually in 1 gear or another... Usually you'll lose only 1 clutch plate in the pack, or more common because of people hauling on OD, you'll heat everything up with the TC clutch slipping and blow it up.. But you aren't hauling, so I doubt you have ALL Clutch pack plates worn down, vern unlikely and you would know it when you change the fluid there would be alot of clutch particles...
I had a BMW 750 IL and about 167K the reverse went out.. Well that transmission in the cluth pack the R and 2nd gear shared the same clutch pack plate. Tore apart and rebuilt the tranny, it had 2 problems, all the electronics were good, the Beads were worn out allowing too much fluid to pass... But the car's upper gears were smooth and good, you couldn't feel the 2nd gear slip because of momentum and the car was already rolling..it was just the 2nd clutch pack surface was all burnt and worn off...
See that isn't your problem because you are not banging on one gear and smooth on others ya know...sounds like something stuck in the valve body, or some electronic transmission control module went bad, but you don't have any dash lites on????
See since you have banging in all gears, that tells me it's something either with a shift servo, although I'm not sure if these transmissions have separate servo's like others, but If you've had the tranny flushed and you know
it was refilled with Type 4 your only next step is to have the tranny diagnosed at a tranny shop.... You don't have the diag tools to hook up to the transmission to see fi the electronics are telling it to shift correctly, that would be my next step...
It sounds like you've went through the obvious stuff that would fix %90 of these problems, now you need to verify all the electronics in the transmission are good, I mean the wire loom there isn't anything obvious like burnt wires or broken wires, you've done all that it sounds..
You mentioned you recently had the tranny fluid changed.. Was it flushed or just changed... And if it was flushed, they put back in Toyota Type 4 fluid... My LS had the Torque Converter chatter because the previous owner didn't have type 4 in it....I assume you did this..
It definitely sounds like a prob w/Transmission to me, specifically is sounds like something may be stuck in a valve body passage.. Because of the way it bangs and smooths out...
ANd I kind of rule out clutch pack or TCC clutch because You wouldn't have banging in upper gears if that was the case which would be very rare, almost always with worn out clutch packs you have slippage usually in 1 gear or another... Usually you'll lose only 1 clutch plate in the pack, or more common because of people hauling on OD, you'll heat everything up with the TC clutch slipping and blow it up.. But you aren't hauling, so I doubt you have ALL Clutch pack plates worn down, vern unlikely and you would know it when you change the fluid there would be alot of clutch particles...
I had a BMW 750 IL and about 167K the reverse went out.. Well that transmission in the cluth pack the R and 2nd gear shared the same clutch pack plate. Tore apart and rebuilt the tranny, it had 2 problems, all the electronics were good, the Beads were worn out allowing too much fluid to pass... But the car's upper gears were smooth and good, you couldn't feel the 2nd gear slip because of momentum and the car was already rolling..it was just the 2nd clutch pack surface was all burnt and worn off...
See that isn't your problem because you are not banging on one gear and smooth on others ya know...sounds like something stuck in the valve body, or some electronic transmission control module went bad, but you don't have any dash lites on????
See since you have banging in all gears, that tells me it's something either with a shift servo, although I'm not sure if these transmissions have separate servo's like others, but If you've had the tranny flushed and you know
it was refilled with Type 4 your only next step is to have the tranny diagnosed at a tranny shop.... You don't have the diag tools to hook up to the transmission to see fi the electronics are telling it to shift correctly, that would be my next step...
It sounds like you've went through the obvious stuff that would fix %90 of these problems, now you need to verify all the electronics in the transmission are good, I mean the wire loom there isn't anything obvious like burnt wires or broken wires, you've done all that it sounds..
Last edited by fisher9720; 01-31-08 at 06:44 AM.
01-31-08, 08:54 AM
#49
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I had the trans flushed at the dealer, so I assume(which I hate to do)it was done right, they have done all the major service on the car for the 242,000 miles that it has been alive. I just started doing the repairs on it myself...motor mounts, tune ups... Thank you for the very well written comment, I have looked for burn wires, I have had it on a lift and checked everything, I have put a wrench on just about every nut, and bolt. I will admit that I am not a tranny guy, if I knew for sure it needed a tranny, I would save up and buy one...but I need to know for sure, I took it to the dealer, and they looked at it for an hour, and said they would need more time...well time is money, and I am a single income military guy with three teenage sons, and my wife home schools them....so that is where all my money goes, but enough about me, and more about the car. I will probably break down and go back to the dealer and have them diagnose the tranny.
Thank you all very much.
Have a great day.
Mark
Thank you all very much.
Have a great day.
Mark
01-31-08, 09:33 AM
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I had the trans flushed at the dealer, so I assume(which I hate to do)it was done right, they have done all the major service on the car for the 242,000 miles that it has been alive. I just started doing the repairs on it myself...motor mounts, tune ups... Thank you for the very well written comment, I have looked for burn wires, I have had it on a lift and checked everything, I have put a wrench on just about every nut, and bolt. I will admit that I am not a tranny guy, if I knew for sure it needed a tranny, I would save up and buy one...but I need to know for sure, I took it to the dealer, and they looked at it for an hour, and said they would need more time...well time is money, and I am a single income military guy with three teenage sons, and my wife home schools them....so that is where all my money goes, but enough about me, and more about the car. I will probably break down and go back to the dealer and have them diagnose the tranny.
Thank you all very much.
Have a great day.
Mark
Thank you all very much.
Have a great day.
Mark
Mine was doing that a little too when it just starts up. I had my tranny mount changed yesterday along with my suspension work. that lunge went away. So if you changed your tranny mount and its still doing it, it might be your transmission.
01-31-08, 10:24 AM
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OK BADDAD,
That answers that, if the dealer flushed, they had to put Type iV in it..Yeah, your next step is to verify that the computer and the transmission modules are all telling it to shift at the correct times, and they can measure the pressures of the shifts as they drive it on a lift...
Could just need a new valve body, you just don't know until you open it up..
IF that stuff is all good, then you have to loop at a physical problem with the transmission like a bad servo seal, or clog in the valve body, something like that is beyond the scope here and you'd be better off getting a transmission from a junkyard if it is a physical problem, but first have them hook up and make sure all the shift points in the computer are correct and GL, probalby not doing much damage if keep driving it at this point...
That answers that, if the dealer flushed, they had to put Type iV in it..Yeah, your next step is to verify that the computer and the transmission modules are all telling it to shift at the correct times, and they can measure the pressures of the shifts as they drive it on a lift...
Could just need a new valve body, you just don't know until you open it up..
IF that stuff is all good, then you have to loop at a physical problem with the transmission like a bad servo seal, or clog in the valve body, something like that is beyond the scope here and you'd be better off getting a transmission from a junkyard if it is a physical problem, but first have them hook up and make sure all the shift points in the computer are correct and GL, probalby not doing much damage if keep driving it at this point...
01-31-08, 10:38 AM
#52
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BADDAD
This thread is also referencing the EGR pipe. One person suggested unhooking the neg for an hour to reset the ECU, Could try that?
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...59&mode=linear
This thread is also referencing the EGR pipe. One person suggested unhooking the neg for an hour to reset the ECU, Could try that?
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...59&mode=linear
01-31-08, 10:42 AM
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AUTO TRANS DIAGNOSIS - A-340E/F/H & A-341E
1990 Lexus LS 400
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS
Toyota A-340E/F/H & A-341E Electronic Controls
APPLICATION
APPLICATION TABLE
Vehicle Application Transmission Mod
Lexus
1990 LS400 ...................................... A-341E
Toyota
1988-90 Cressida ................................ A-340E
1990 Pickup (4WD) ............................... A-340F
1988-90 Pickup (4WD) ............................ A-340H
1988-90 Supra ................................... A-340E
1990 4Runner (2WD) .............................. A-340E
1990 4Runner (4WD) .............................. A-340F
1988-90 4Runner (4WD) ........................... A-340H
������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������
DESCRIPTION
The center of the Electronically Controlled Transmission/
Transaxle (ECT) is the Electronic Controlled Unit (ECU). The ECU
receives information from various sensors and switches. Based on
information received, the ECU generates output signals to control
transmission operation. The ECU system controls shift points and
operation of lock-up clutch. The A-341E has a self-diagnosis function
which diagnoses and notifies of a malfunction in the electronically
controlled components. A failsafe function enables continuous vehicle
operation even when an electronic circuit malfunction has occurred.
The fail-safe feature controls solenoid valve back-up, speed sensor
back-up and manual operation functions.
OPERATION
* PLEASE READ THIS FIRST *
The engine control system consists of an engine ECU, sensors,
switches and solenoids. In order for the engine ECU to perform
properly, it must be kept constantly informed of engine operating
conditions. It is the task of the sensors to supply the engine ECU,
via electrical signals, with specific information required to
determine engine operating conditions. The engine ECU will then send
electrical signals to the ECT ECU to control shift timing, lock-up
timing, transfer shift timing (if equipped), self-diagnostic system,
fluid temperature warning system and backup system. Individual
component operation is as follows.
NOTE: Unless otherwise specified, references in this article to ECU
refer to the ECT ECU.
ECU INPUT SENSORS
Throttle Position (TP) Sensor
The TP sensor is mounted on side of throttle body. The TP
sensor senses throttle movement and position, and transmits an
electrical signal to ECU. This signal determines gear shifting points.
Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS)
This signal is picked up from a rotor on the output shaft and
informs the ECU of road speed. The ECU uses sensor signals to control
shift points and lock-up clutch operation.
Transfer Shift Position Switch (TSPS)
The switch signals the ECU that transfer shift lever has been
shifted into "L4". When switch contact points are open, the ECU
detects the lever is in "H2" or "H4" position,
Pattern Select Switch (PSS)
2 shift schedules are programmed into ECU: "Power" and
"Normal" modes. The mode used by the ECU is determined by setting
driving pattern select switch.
Neutral Start Switch (NSS)
The neutral start switch signals the ECU range selector lever
position. Switch contains contacts for both starts; control circuit
and shift position indicator. The ECU uses signals from "2" and "L"
range.
Brake Light Switch (BLS)
The brake light switch signals the ECU whenever brakes are
applied. This signals the ECU whenever brakes are applied. This
signals the ECU to disengage torque converter lock-up clutch.
OD Main Switch (ODMS)
This switch causes transmission to shift in and out of
overdrive. When OD main switch is "ON", current from battery flows to
ECU, causing transmission to be OD enabled. When OD main switch is
turned off, current from the battery flows to ground.
Water Temperature Sensor (WTS)
The sensor monitors engine coolant temperature. A signal is
transmitted to ECU throughout entire range of operating temperatures.
Fluid Temperature Sensor (FTS)
The fluid temperature sensor sends a signal to ECU that
varies with transmission fluid temperatures.
Cruise Control Sensor (CCS)
This sensor signals a Cruise Control ECU which prevents
transmission from shifting into OD and prohibits lockup control when
vehicle speed drops below the drive set speed parameters.
Kickdown Switch (KS)
This switch signals the ECU if the accelerator pedal is
depressed beyond the full throttle valve opening position.
Engine Speed Sensor (ESS)
The engine speed sensor indicates engine RPM and sends a
signal to the ECU.
OD Direct Clutch Speed Sensor (ODDCSS)
The sensor senses the input shaft speed from 1-3 gear.
1990 Lexus LS 400
AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS
Toyota A-340E/F/H & A-341E Electronic Controls
APPLICATION
APPLICATION TABLE
Vehicle Application Transmission Mod
Lexus
1990 LS400 ...................................... A-341E
Toyota
1988-90 Cressida ................................ A-340E
1990 Pickup (4WD) ............................... A-340F
1988-90 Pickup (4WD) ............................ A-340H
1988-90 Supra ................................... A-340E
1990 4Runner (2WD) .............................. A-340E
1990 4Runner (4WD) .............................. A-340F
1988-90 4Runner (4WD) ........................... A-340H
������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������������
DESCRIPTION
The center of the Electronically Controlled Transmission/
Transaxle (ECT) is the Electronic Controlled Unit (ECU). The ECU
receives information from various sensors and switches. Based on
information received, the ECU generates output signals to control
transmission operation. The ECU system controls shift points and
operation of lock-up clutch. The A-341E has a self-diagnosis function
which diagnoses and notifies of a malfunction in the electronically
controlled components. A failsafe function enables continuous vehicle
operation even when an electronic circuit malfunction has occurred.
The fail-safe feature controls solenoid valve back-up, speed sensor
back-up and manual operation functions.
OPERATION
* PLEASE READ THIS FIRST *
The engine control system consists of an engine ECU, sensors,
switches and solenoids. In order for the engine ECU to perform
properly, it must be kept constantly informed of engine operating
conditions. It is the task of the sensors to supply the engine ECU,
via electrical signals, with specific information required to
determine engine operating conditions. The engine ECU will then send
electrical signals to the ECT ECU to control shift timing, lock-up
timing, transfer shift timing (if equipped), self-diagnostic system,
fluid temperature warning system and backup system. Individual
component operation is as follows.
NOTE: Unless otherwise specified, references in this article to ECU
refer to the ECT ECU.
ECU INPUT SENSORS
Throttle Position (TP) Sensor
The TP sensor is mounted on side of throttle body. The TP
sensor senses throttle movement and position, and transmits an
electrical signal to ECU. This signal determines gear shifting points.
Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS)
This signal is picked up from a rotor on the output shaft and
informs the ECU of road speed. The ECU uses sensor signals to control
shift points and lock-up clutch operation.
Transfer Shift Position Switch (TSPS)
The switch signals the ECU that transfer shift lever has been
shifted into "L4". When switch contact points are open, the ECU
detects the lever is in "H2" or "H4" position,
Pattern Select Switch (PSS)
2 shift schedules are programmed into ECU: "Power" and
"Normal" modes. The mode used by the ECU is determined by setting
driving pattern select switch.
Neutral Start Switch (NSS)
The neutral start switch signals the ECU range selector lever
position. Switch contains contacts for both starts; control circuit
and shift position indicator. The ECU uses signals from "2" and "L"
range.
Brake Light Switch (BLS)
The brake light switch signals the ECU whenever brakes are
applied. This signals the ECU whenever brakes are applied. This
signals the ECU to disengage torque converter lock-up clutch.
OD Main Switch (ODMS)
This switch causes transmission to shift in and out of
overdrive. When OD main switch is "ON", current from battery flows to
ECU, causing transmission to be OD enabled. When OD main switch is
turned off, current from the battery flows to ground.
Water Temperature Sensor (WTS)
The sensor monitors engine coolant temperature. A signal is
transmitted to ECU throughout entire range of operating temperatures.
Fluid Temperature Sensor (FTS)
The fluid temperature sensor sends a signal to ECU that
varies with transmission fluid temperatures.
Cruise Control Sensor (CCS)
This sensor signals a Cruise Control ECU which prevents
transmission from shifting into OD and prohibits lockup control when
vehicle speed drops below the drive set speed parameters.
Kickdown Switch (KS)
This switch signals the ECU if the accelerator pedal is
depressed beyond the full throttle valve opening position.
Engine Speed Sensor (ESS)
The engine speed sensor indicates engine RPM and sends a
signal to the ECU.
OD Direct Clutch Speed Sensor (ODDCSS)
The sensor senses the input shaft speed from 1-3 gear.
01-31-08, 10:47 AM
#54
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I don't know if you've parused other sites, here is some info if you want to try it yourself
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...l=transmission
It does sound like a fluid problem, but you could also easily check the diagnostics readout on the transmission. If you use a short piece of wire to connect between the TE1 and E1 terminals of the diagnostics connector (one in engine bay, one in drivers footwell) and turn on the ignition the computer will tell you if there are any troubles with solenoids, clutches etc. Normal code is a steady on/off flashing of the "OD off" light.
See www.Lexls.com site for code reading guide. Fault codes will flash out, i.e. 2 flashes, pause, then 3 flashes would be a 23 error code. post any here for decoding.
Bali26 & Leadfoot,
Thank you for the comments - I have been using Type IV, and also looked at the TE1 and EI jumped code (61); this translated into a speed sensor 2 problem! I have tried finding information from the two owners manuals (Vol 1 & 2) but there does not seem to be any other info on that, other than it may affect OD (4th gear) operation. I am waiting for a copy of RM235U (tranmission repair manual) to diagnose further, but do you think the solenoids may be intermittently gumming up? When I step on the brakes, the car does not brake smoothly - sort of like a mild juddering. Also, if it is the solenoids (1 or 2 I think), how difficult would it be to clean or change them?
What level is the trans fluid showing? Is it still red?
You have an OBD 1 system, so plug in a shorting wire between TE1 and E1 then turn on the ignition. The faults codes should show you the problem, watch the OD light flashing. See www.Lexls.com site for code reading guide. Report back what its showing.
http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums...l=transmission
It does sound like a fluid problem, but you could also easily check the diagnostics readout on the transmission. If you use a short piece of wire to connect between the TE1 and E1 terminals of the diagnostics connector (one in engine bay, one in drivers footwell) and turn on the ignition the computer will tell you if there are any troubles with solenoids, clutches etc. Normal code is a steady on/off flashing of the "OD off" light.
See www.Lexls.com site for code reading guide. Fault codes will flash out, i.e. 2 flashes, pause, then 3 flashes would be a 23 error code. post any here for decoding.
Bali26 & Leadfoot,
Thank you for the comments - I have been using Type IV, and also looked at the TE1 and EI jumped code (61); this translated into a speed sensor 2 problem! I have tried finding information from the two owners manuals (Vol 1 & 2) but there does not seem to be any other info on that, other than it may affect OD (4th gear) operation. I am waiting for a copy of RM235U (tranmission repair manual) to diagnose further, but do you think the solenoids may be intermittently gumming up? When I step on the brakes, the car does not brake smoothly - sort of like a mild juddering. Also, if it is the solenoids (1 or 2 I think), how difficult would it be to clean or change them?
What level is the trans fluid showing? Is it still red?
You have an OBD 1 system, so plug in a shorting wire between TE1 and E1 then turn on the ignition. The faults codes should show you the problem, watch the OD light flashing. See www.Lexls.com site for code reading guide. Report back what its showing.
01-31-08, 10:55 AM
#55
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01-31-08, 12:15 PM
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Wow you guy "ROCK", and now you have planned my weekend. Thank you so much, I do appreciate all the imput, and I will get back to you on the results.
Thank you, thank you , thank you.
Have a great day.
Mark
Thank you, thank you , thank you.
Have a great day.
Mark
01-31-08, 07:42 PM
#57
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How I knew the EGR pipe was leaking
BIGBADDAD,
What I failed to mention was the diagnosis on the EGR pipe. This problem was kicking my butt so badly that I finally gave in and went to the Lexus dealership. I hating doing that because I haven't had good experiences with them in the past. To make a long story short, they had my car for diagnosing this problem for 4 days and I had a brand new 2007 ES350 to drive around as a loner for that time period. As a side note, the "newness" of the loner was nice to drive, but it definitely was NOT an LS and I couldn't wait to get back to my car. However, in the end, I drove their new car for free for four days and paid a rather sensible $97.00 diagnostic fee in which they concluded that both of my TPS's (throttle position sensors - two of them with Trac control) needed to be replaced and I had a cracked EGR pipe. Their diagnosis claimed that the TPS's were possibly responsible for the trans problem and the EGR pipe was simply a FYI for me that it was cracked and needed replacement but wasn't related to the problem. They explained to me that what I thought was an exhaust leak, as someone else on this thread also admitted to misdiagnosing, was actually a badly cracked EGR pipe. I think this is commonly misdiagnosed as an exhaust leak.
I decided with their diagnosis printout in hand I would set out to fix the problems myself. By the way, they wanted over $500.00 to fix the TPS's alone. No thanks.
I decided to first fix the cracked EGR pipe since I KNEW for a fact that it was bad because I could hear it. It really does sound like an exhaust leak. The sound is loudest coming from the rear of the engine (of course that is where the EGR pipe is located, between the engine and the firewall). It is even more noticeable if you jack up the car, roll underneath it and place yourself inbetween the passenger side front tire and the motor and listen for what sounds like an exhaust leak muffled popping sound. Even more noticeable if you can have someone slightly rev the engine while you're underneath it. If you roll around while underneath the car, you'll also notice that the sound is strongest in the location that I described.
I know all this EGR pipe stuff sounds like it would have no possible relation to a transmission problem... well, consider the amazement that I experienced upon driving it later and the trans problem gone. By the way, I haven't changed the TPS's to this day and it drives like a new car. There is no erratic throttle behavior and until I have reason to, they will stay where they are and I will save $160.00 in parts for new TPS's.
What I failed to mention was the diagnosis on the EGR pipe. This problem was kicking my butt so badly that I finally gave in and went to the Lexus dealership. I hating doing that because I haven't had good experiences with them in the past. To make a long story short, they had my car for diagnosing this problem for 4 days and I had a brand new 2007 ES350 to drive around as a loner for that time period. As a side note, the "newness" of the loner was nice to drive, but it definitely was NOT an LS and I couldn't wait to get back to my car. However, in the end, I drove their new car for free for four days and paid a rather sensible $97.00 diagnostic fee in which they concluded that both of my TPS's (throttle position sensors - two of them with Trac control) needed to be replaced and I had a cracked EGR pipe. Their diagnosis claimed that the TPS's were possibly responsible for the trans problem and the EGR pipe was simply a FYI for me that it was cracked and needed replacement but wasn't related to the problem. They explained to me that what I thought was an exhaust leak, as someone else on this thread also admitted to misdiagnosing, was actually a badly cracked EGR pipe. I think this is commonly misdiagnosed as an exhaust leak.
I decided with their diagnosis printout in hand I would set out to fix the problems myself. By the way, they wanted over $500.00 to fix the TPS's alone. No thanks.
I decided to first fix the cracked EGR pipe since I KNEW for a fact that it was bad because I could hear it. It really does sound like an exhaust leak. The sound is loudest coming from the rear of the engine (of course that is where the EGR pipe is located, between the engine and the firewall). It is even more noticeable if you jack up the car, roll underneath it and place yourself inbetween the passenger side front tire and the motor and listen for what sounds like an exhaust leak muffled popping sound. Even more noticeable if you can have someone slightly rev the engine while you're underneath it. If you roll around while underneath the car, you'll also notice that the sound is strongest in the location that I described.
I know all this EGR pipe stuff sounds like it would have no possible relation to a transmission problem... well, consider the amazement that I experienced upon driving it later and the trans problem gone. By the way, I haven't changed the TPS's to this day and it drives like a new car. There is no erratic throttle behavior and until I have reason to, they will stay where they are and I will save $160.00 in parts for new TPS's.
01-31-08, 09:28 PM
#58
Could a cracked EGR pipe be confused with the sound of tapping valves? My car sounds like a diesel and does lunge when I shift to drive. I always thought it was the valves and tranny mount but have yet to check em out.
01-31-08, 09:34 PM
#59
Hacked CL to become a Mod
yea whats with that...i thought my SC jerked but drove an LS at work and wow that thing jumped like a foot forward even when i had the brake pedal floored
