Ross LS400

I think you've been misinformed. My brother has had 3 W140 Mercedes 500SE's. All with quality leather, AC, Electric interior and most certainly not diesels. Having said that, none were as refined, reliable or as quick as my LS400.

And to tbilisi79, you need to get a grip my son! Having driven both cars for a lot of miles, the Merc could not lace the shoes of the LS400.

Ross LS400

Jump across the channel to Britain and see how wrong you are.

tbilisi79

The cattle has been branded.

Och

iTrader: (3)

I know most W126 and W140 in Russia came stripped, even without headrests. And most W126's were diesels.

Ross LS400

Ok, now I understand where you're coming from. The Russian market is very different from the main population base of western Europe. Cars destined for one market or another can have very different specifications. UK cars are often much better specced than German versions of the same car. I've lived in both countries and can attest to this fact.

In the early 90's, Russia could be termed as an emerging market. The Western manufacturers knew that there was not sufficient strength in the economy at that point to make mass profits on luxury specification vehicles but they knew there was the possibility that the economy would mature to the point where luxury vehicles were profitable on a large scale. It was good business practice on their part to get into the infant marketplace albeit with massively down-specified vehicles to develop their brand in a country previously dominated by Zils and Ladas.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Actually there was no dealerships for MB or any other imported vehicles in Russia in the early 90ies, they only started coming there in the very late 90ies and 2000's. Back in the early 90ies, and even nowadays, people actually used to go abroad and buy these cars, mostly used, because new cars in Russia are taxed ridiculously heavy.

People in the Western and Central Russia used to go mostly to Germany, through Poland, to buy these cars, so what you've said makes a lot of sense, if German versions of MB were poorly equipped, then this is why they were poorly equipped in Russia. However people from Eastern Russia used to go to Japan, because its geographically closer, and pick up Japanese cars, mostly with RHD. So even nowadays half of Russia is mosly German cars with LHD, and the other half is Japanese with RHD.

P.S.

Actually now I remember, the first foreign maker to start building a dealer network in Russia and advertize heavily, was Renault. Their cars were quite popular in Russia in the early 90ies.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

ive been looking for this video for ever and to Dustin v, i dont want to try to fight with you or anything, but you have to remeber, lexus isn't like a european car becuase it isn't european, but im sure you know that and to tbilisi79, the one who doesn't seem openminded here is you. i love the s class, but honestly, the 92-99 s class was one of the worst s classes made, but then agian we are talking about s class so it coudn't be that bad. The interior was a disgrace for a car of it's price, the reliability was a joke, and even with all the gadgets it had, it doesn't mean anything if they didn't work. and sure you have the driver feel involved and everything but honestly, if driver feel is everything, get a smaller car, not some barge. I love the s class, but really if you don't like lexus leave. and im not tring to stand up for lexus or anything like that, i just think they are great cars, and having an s class myself, ( the best one ever made i think) and having dealt withc many other german and american cars, i think i am not making any closed minded statement by saying lexus is much better. Because i look at a car over all, not just driver feel sorry for the rant

Neofate

iTrader: (1)

heheh..

People are getting to involved about their own vehicles or experiences.

The Lexus is just that, a LEXUS. Toyota built a family name in 5years. The Lexus name is renouned and known across civilized Earth. Much like Mercedes and BMW.

Lexus does not have the heritage,.. it is impossible to. It does have toyota as its maker,.. hands down the most reliable car manufacturer in the world. Toyota has even tried to separate itself from the brand to establish the name. Which it has done very succesfully in many parts of the world.

What Toyota did with the Lexus is nothing short of remarkable.. to be able to compete is a hefty task.. to OUT perform in any arena is simply remarkable.

Yes, we are on a Lexus forum, meaning the majority of us drive a Lexus. Which obviously means VERY biased opinions. The original post here was just a link to a great video.. It was one magazines opinion of the cars in questions, and is 15+ years old.

The car in question, a first gen LS 400 is Reliable,.. The most reliable car ever in some minds, and certainly one of the top 5 in the world, ever. Undeniable.

This is an amazing statistic considering the young age 'newness' at which the car stood.

Are there better cars,.. Yes. Overall in every category, no.

There is no car that outperforms every other car in every possible category period. It is impossible to create... the diversity is , well, too diverse.

I still think this is an honest and fair report, at the time, and still true today of the very cars/models represented.

As Lexus has progressed.. no , not every make/model/year has been a First gen quality/caliber LS 400 -- There have been flaws, which would be expected.

ie: Sludge in ES's -- Tranny problems abound in Rx's.. and so forth. I personally don't think the '07 LS 430's are reliable as the 90-94 LS400's.. or even 90-2000 400's.. But is opinion alone.

That is the point of this thread it is opinion. and opinion alone.

If anyone wants to back up fact, the older the car the more facts that surround it,.. ie: JD power and associates reports on the 400..

Take the newer designs.. they are great, luxurious, but with no reliability history behind them because you cannot build a reliability report until time passes,..

As for cloth vs leather, diesel vs non.. and so on. That is apples vs oranges. No point in arguing those facts. Though one point that was made, that I found very valid. Toyota designed these cars to have the options included,.. As standard. These aren't pick and choose Mercedes in Europe.. These are standard luxury cars.

In other words you could take the body/chassis/engine of a Lexus and make it a reasonably priced car, dropping many options, but then it wouldn't be a "Lexus". Understand? Lexus = Luxury, in EVERY model.. Despite where you bought it, and for what price. If you want a reliable automobile of the same manufacturer.. Buy a toyota.

tbilisi79

Dude, are you kicking me off the board??? If so, may I inform you that, you would be violating my first amendment rights, which I clearly do have! Unless something has changed in the last 8 years.


Not only will I not be sorry for my claims, but I will state even more how boring the LS is. Note that I never said it was a bad vehicle,never. I have lots of respect for a car for its quality, even f it uses most of the interior buttons from a camry.

Kansas

Another funny thread we've got going here!

I took great interest in this Top Gear video having purchased an LS400 in early 1990 and having been in the U.K. when the LS400 was introduced.

The exact same four cars shown in the Top Gear video were circulated around the various British car magazines in 1990 for their staffs to evaluate and write about. If I remember correctly, Toyota supplied the cars. I wish I had kept some of those magazines but things like that pile up and I pitched all except one after a few years.

I remember taking a close look at the BMW 735i in 1989. The main thing I remember is that a six footer like me had their head firmly pressed into the headliner when sitting in the back seat.

If you look at my signature below, you might be able to tell how much I was into Mercedes cars. I was fortunate to own a MB 450SEL in 1979 at the time that Car and Driver magazine proclaimed it to be the "Best Car in the World" in one of its issues -- it was certainly fun to have both adults and kids suddenly ask me about my rather bland four door Mercedes sedan.

But I'm not much of a Mercedes fan anymore. My 18 years driving Lexus LS cars has been infinitely more pleasant and less stressful and far less expensive than my many years owning Mercedes cars.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

where did you get i was kicking you oof the board, i was just satating my opinions as you were yours, and yes the ls did have the same buttons as the corolla, but why not, they were functional, simple, o and they didn't break. And besides, if they weren't from the corolla, what would you want? sure the ls may be boring, but can't that be said for the s class to, a demure interior, with vile wood, nasty leather, and gauges from the 70s? The only really cool thing about the s class was its size. But i am talking of the older s classes, not the current one, well besides for the wood comment, that still apllies
Well i think i am done, here, dont want to start nothing with anyone, And by the way if you think i am so random kid who hates mb and just bashes em because i like lexus, you are wrong, because i love both, but i just think this model lexus along with a few iothers is better

GKLCPA

You know, I try not to get emotional here, but sometimes one can get pushed and tblisi just pushed me too hard.

Where do you get off ******* the LS? Don't you realize these are fighting words?

You know the Spanish had the inquisition at one point to deal with those who had problems keeping the faith. We on this board may have to consider that whenever someone breaks ranks just to keep them in line. I say that the next time he gets out of line that his MB be drawn and quartered after being tarred and feathered.

encore888

OK, please everyone tone it down a bit, this is just a thread about the Top Gear video, try to stick to that please, let's not spiral off into a 'my brand is better than yours' war, and no personal attacks. Yes, there are discussions of the brands in the video, but limited to specific models.

For those of you who have been searching for this vid for a while, glad you can now view it--there are also quite a few Firefox/browser plugins etc. that let you save the .FLV file off of YouTube.

RXGS

iTrader: (2)

that cup test was pretty cool, i wonder how the ls400 would have done next to my 560? lol

tbilisi79

Fighting words?

Read my original post.
All I said is that, I think MB and BMW is more fun to drive if you have a pulse. FUN TO DRIVE. I said nothing about reliability or practicality. Time has shown which one of those 4 cars are the best in the long run. MB 420's had timing chain problems at 100k. 560SEL had suspension problems, BMW would leak oil all over the place and I am not even talking about the Jag.
LS400 at that time was a great value for the MONEY, that is a fact.
Traction Control, 4 valve per cyl V8 motor, good sound system, auto climate control. All good features. Great value then and now.
But, if I was to buy a car in 1990, it would be a 735 BMW, it just drives great, to my liking.
Today, if I had to buy a car under $7000. It would be a Lexus, not a MB or BMW.
Now. I like to treat myself good when I can. With that said. I buy cars that bring smiles my way. I like cars that are big, cars that are fast, cars that have lots of interesting details, inside and out. Cars like BMW 750IL (95-01), MB S500 or S600-v12 (1992-1999), BMW 635CSI,M6. Special cars with hand stitched leather and one of the kind persona. Cars that one does not see every day. Cars that let you know that, you are driving a special car.
I owned a few cars in my life so far.
3 Lincolns, 2 of them I used for drag racing.
1 96 Mustang Convertible V8, slowest car I owned.
a 95 S500, one of the best.
And a car I drive now, a 98 LS, which I love, for all it is. A reliable 4 door car.
I stated my opinion, nothing else.


You are talking about keeping the faith??? Are you serious?? This is just a car brand, nothing else. Unless you own a large Toyota stock, or work at a Lexus dealership polishing wheels, I dont see what your problem is.