Should I run Synthetic on next service?
#17
I do my own changes as well. That way I control the process and get a chance to keep a close eye on the under carriage The debate between syn and non-syn always gets many replies. We always have used Mobil1 Syn with equivalent filter. Bottom line though it is up to you as they both exceed standard specifications. I don't mind spending the extra $$$ on Mobil1 Syn since I do it each 15,000 miles.
#18
Instructor
Given my recent experience with synthetic, I might try a synthetic blend first. I went with full synthetic Mobile1 on my 91LS @ 86k miles or so and my rear main seal started to leak. I'm keeping an eye on it to see if it stops, otherwise I'll have to have it replaced over the winter. The cleaning action of the synthetic removes all the junk/residue that dino oil leaves behind and opens up pathways around seals that weren't there before. I'm hoping the seal conditioners in the Mobil1 will help the seal expand but I may be too optimistic.
That's not a bad deal if your getting nice prices. 6 qts at $5 a piece adds up to $30, and that doesn't include the filter. I am sure you can get some great pricing but at our Toyota shop it was $19.99 for an oil change, OEM filter, all fluid top off, and tire pressure checked, plus employee discount, can't beat that. I don't like to get dirty.... j/k
Last edited by 3UZFTE; 08-27-09 at 09:27 AM.
#19
Lexus Test Driver
3UZFTE,
I don't really disagree with what your saying, especially about the smaller size of the molecules in synthetic oil. I think this is why they add seal conditioners to the synthetic.
Through my reading, I found articles that spoke about problems with synthetics from many, many years ago. Oil leaks from switching to synthetics back years ago seemed to be more the norm than the exception. Once the oil companies got the additive mixture right, including the addition of more seal conditioners, many of the oil leak problems went away.
I've also read that today, 10-20% of cars switching to synthetic develop oil leaks. Is it because those 10~20% that switch have marginal seals or gaskets to begin with? That could very well be the case.
There apparently is a cleaning action that takes place at least when switching to Mobil1 (this is the brand I've researched the most up to now). Different Mobil1 products contain "extra seal conditioners" and "additional cleaning agents". I think the cleaning agents are working at the particle level, not necessarily disloging large pieces of junk.
Anyways, it took over 1k miles of driving over a month after switching to the Mobile1 before I had signs of a leak. So what was happening inside my engine during those 1k+ miles that led to the leak and why wasn't it more immediate?
Thanks
Jim
I don't really disagree with what your saying, especially about the smaller size of the molecules in synthetic oil. I think this is why they add seal conditioners to the synthetic.
Through my reading, I found articles that spoke about problems with synthetics from many, many years ago. Oil leaks from switching to synthetics back years ago seemed to be more the norm than the exception. Once the oil companies got the additive mixture right, including the addition of more seal conditioners, many of the oil leak problems went away.
I've also read that today, 10-20% of cars switching to synthetic develop oil leaks. Is it because those 10~20% that switch have marginal seals or gaskets to begin with? That could very well be the case.
There apparently is a cleaning action that takes place at least when switching to Mobil1 (this is the brand I've researched the most up to now). Different Mobil1 products contain "extra seal conditioners" and "additional cleaning agents". I think the cleaning agents are working at the particle level, not necessarily disloging large pieces of junk.
Anyways, it took over 1k miles of driving over a month after switching to the Mobile1 before I had signs of a leak. So what was happening inside my engine during those 1k+ miles that led to the leak and why wasn't it more immediate?
Thanks
Jim
#20
Lexus Champion
Mobil 1 High Mileage - of which AutoZone is having a oil change special on uses a stouter add pack which meets tougher ACEA A3/B3 standards that BMW/Mercedes/VW specify over API/ILSAC specs.
I've been running synthetic in my engine since last year with Pennzoil Platinum - I have Valvoline SynPower in it now. I also have Red Line 75W-90 in my rear diff, I used M1 before in rear ends. I'm also running synthetic in a 2005 Sienna and a 2009 Prius. I'm trying to keep the Sienna's 1MZ-FE based engine clean and to eke out every MPG in the Prius.
I've been running synthetic in my engine since last year with Pennzoil Platinum - I have Valvoline SynPower in it now. I also have Red Line 75W-90 in my rear diff, I used M1 before in rear ends. I'm also running synthetic in a 2005 Sienna and a 2009 Prius. I'm trying to keep the Sienna's 1MZ-FE based engine clean and to eke out every MPG in the Prius.
#21
Lexus Test Driver
Thanks
Last edited by JimsGX; 08-27-09 at 06:20 PM.
#22
Instructor
3UZFTE,
I don't really disagree with what your saying, especially about the smaller size of the molecules in synthetic oil. I think this is why they add seal conditioners to the synthetic.
I've also read that today, 10-20% of cars switching to synthetic develop oil leaks. Is it because those 10~20% that switch have marginal seals or gaskets to begin with? That could very well be the case.
Anyways, it took over 1k miles of driving over a month after switching to the Mobile1 before I had signs of a leak. So what was happening inside my engine during those 1k+ miles that led to the leak and why wasn't it more immediate?
Thanks
Jim
I don't really disagree with what your saying, especially about the smaller size of the molecules in synthetic oil. I think this is why they add seal conditioners to the synthetic.
I've also read that today, 10-20% of cars switching to synthetic develop oil leaks. Is it because those 10~20% that switch have marginal seals or gaskets to begin with? That could very well be the case.
Anyways, it took over 1k miles of driving over a month after switching to the Mobile1 before I had signs of a leak. So what was happening inside my engine during those 1k+ miles that led to the leak and why wasn't it more immediate?
Thanks
Jim
I don't think you saw an immediate leak because the oil hasn't really broken down yet. When you put fresh oil in, it takes a few miles to break it down to be able to pick up dirt, go through the pump, filter, and passages. Plus, you also mostly likely has just a smig of conventional non-synthetic left over from maybe 3 oil changes ago, however eventually you will just have synthetic. Have you tried running 10w-40 to help your leak?
Last thing I would mention... is that if you guys didn't know Mobil1 is still a conventional based oil. It says "fully synthetic" on the bottle, but like most advertising, it is false and is actually a synthetic dino oil. I used to run Mobil1 synthetic before I went to Royal Purple, now back at the cheap stuff.
Last edited by 3UZFTE; 08-29-09 at 05:30 AM.
#23
Instructor
Mobil 1 High Mileage - of which AutoZone is having a oil change special on uses a stouter add pack which meets tougher ACEA A3/B3 standards that BMW/Mercedes/VW specify over API/ILSAC specs.
I've been running synthetic in my engine since last year with Pennzoil Platinum - I have Valvoline SynPower in it now. I also have Red Line 75W-90 in my rear diff, I used M1 before in rear ends. I'm also running synthetic in a 2005 Sienna and a 2009 Prius. I'm trying to keep the Sienna's 1MZ-FE based engine clean and to eke out every MPG in the Prius.
I've been running synthetic in my engine since last year with Pennzoil Platinum - I have Valvoline SynPower in it now. I also have Red Line 75W-90 in my rear diff, I used M1 before in rear ends. I'm also running synthetic in a 2005 Sienna and a 2009 Prius. I'm trying to keep the Sienna's 1MZ-FE based engine clean and to eke out every MPG in the Prius.
I do not mean to harp, I just love a good ole' debate. Maybe there is something that I don't know about this stuff, but I would love to hear it from you, and not Mobil1, I can watch TV and read the bottle myself.
#24
Lexus Champion
The only car I would trust a regular Group II oil per OEM maintenance schedule is a Honda - my friend's Civic went well over 7000 miles on Quaker State conventional. Toyotas are just too hard on their lube oil.
#25
Keep in mind, all oils have had cleaning agent/detergent additives for 30 or 40 years, its not just the synthetics that do that. So, like 3UZFTE, i don't think this argument explains why synthetics can cause older engines to leak.
Still, one thing i wonder is, how can a synthetic be physically thinner, and more able to penetrate seals if it has the same warm viscosity rating? (say *w30). That's the whole point of a viscosity rating surely?
My 95 (done 190,000kms), did start to puff a bit of oil smoke on cold startup (valve seals), when i changed to the semi syn 10w40 at 150,000kms. I guess it ran dino oil most of it's life. It doesn't worry me tho because it's a very small amount.
Still, one thing i wonder is, how can a synthetic be physically thinner, and more able to penetrate seals if it has the same warm viscosity rating? (say *w30). That's the whole point of a viscosity rating surely?
My 95 (done 190,000kms), did start to puff a bit of oil smoke on cold startup (valve seals), when i changed to the semi syn 10w40 at 150,000kms. I guess it ran dino oil most of it's life. It doesn't worry me tho because it's a very small amount.
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Last edited by JimsGX; 08-31-09 at 02:16 AM.
#27
Instructor
I was able to pull off 53.75mpg, my parents never check their MPG, but I drove it for a week and a half. And I don't drive like a old lady either. The trip computer said 48.7mpg - but Toyota's TCs are inaccurate.
The only car I would trust a regular Group II oil per OEM maintenance schedule is a Honda - my friend's Civic went well over 7000 miles on Quaker State conventional. Toyotas are just too hard on their lube oil.
The only car I would trust a regular Group II oil per OEM maintenance schedule is a Honda - my friend's Civic went well over 7000 miles on Quaker State conventional. Toyotas are just too hard on their lube oil.
Gmacrae: That's a good point about viscosity, but that rating is done by basically taking a cup, poking a hole in it, and let it come through, the faster it comes out, the thinner the viscosity, and the slower it comes out, the thicker it is. 0w, 5w, 10w are the winter weights, below 40* it will act as a 5 weight oil, and above 40* it will act like a 20, 30, or 40 weight... 5w-30, is a 5 weight below 40*, and 30 weight above 40*. I'm sure you already knew that, but how fast something pours isn't necessarily related to the molecular build up, but you bring up a good point.
#28
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Jul 2009
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My LS has 222,000 on the clock now, and runs, beautifully, on normal oil. No smoke on start up, no blue trial under accelleration, etc.
I also run motorbikes, and have had a number that have done big mileages. My Fireblade is now on 95,000 miles, and has run with semi synth for the last 50,000 miles.
I did have a GSX-R 750 that, at 100,000 miles I decided to change to fully synth oil. Upon start up it smoked (it never did before) and sounded really rattly. Worried I drained it and put cheap 20-50 car oil in it. It ran for another 80,000 miles on the cheapest oil i coulD buy before it was crashed and written off by the insurance co.
I swear that engines last so much longer when they always do trips that heat the oil to it's optimum tempreture, and boil off condensation and contaminates. My bikes rarely do trips of less than 60 miles, and i am sure this is why they last. It is certainly not because they are treated gently, except for the first few miles, then it's redline all the way
I also run motorbikes, and have had a number that have done big mileages. My Fireblade is now on 95,000 miles, and has run with semi synth for the last 50,000 miles.
I did have a GSX-R 750 that, at 100,000 miles I decided to change to fully synth oil. Upon start up it smoked (it never did before) and sounded really rattly. Worried I drained it and put cheap 20-50 car oil in it. It ran for another 80,000 miles on the cheapest oil i coulD buy before it was crashed and written off by the insurance co.
I swear that engines last so much longer when they always do trips that heat the oil to it's optimum tempreture, and boil off condensation and contaminates. My bikes rarely do trips of less than 60 miles, and i am sure this is why they last. It is certainly not because they are treated gently, except for the first few miles, then it's redline all the way
#29
Lexus Champion
I was just saying, if you add up a $60 oil change, everything 3000 miles for 100k, you will have spent $2,000 dollars on oil. Whereas if you find a $20 oil change, like we did at Carlson, it comes out to be around $670, that's $1,230 that you could save and put towards fuel.... Again, I am not trying to harp, but does it make sense to spend an extra $1,200 to make 2 mpg more?
We spend $15-30 for oil changes with the DIY route, with 5K OCIs.
#30
Instructor
The local Toyota dealer here charges $60 for a oil change - unless it calls 0W-20, and they use Chevron bulk in which I can easily buy a case at Costco. I go to Wal-Mart for my oil needs. Honda here uses Quaker State bulk, unless it's a Civic Hybrid/Insight/Accord Hybrid or a S2K, then they tack on a additional $20 charge for Honda/Idemitsu 0W-20 or Mobil 10W-30.
We spend $15-30 for oil changes with the DIY route, with 5K OCIs.
We spend $15-30 for oil changes with the DIY route, with 5K OCIs.