Shmee

iTrader: (3)

I'm not suggesting his choice of a Lucas product is the cause of the problem. More that the use of any such product could or could not be the cause....

That said, in well maintained cars/trucks most additives of any sort do nothing more than lighten your wallet.
I have never seen any quantifiable proof any of them have ever worked. Hearsay and conjecture is not proof just like butt-dyno results are not either. I have tested a lot of them in customer cars and very few things make a decernable difference in how the car runs. And how a car runs can be tested with a 5gas analyzer... Most of the off the shelf fuel products do nothing and are little more than a simple solvent to remove fuel varnish. Some cause injector seal issues, others simply do nothing. Standard Variation and a host of other chemicals being burned accounts for most cases of why a car failed before and passed an emission test after a bottle was introduced... Typically, those same people who proclaim miracles from a bottle often think higher octane gas makes there 95 corolla run better and it cleans their engines while they drive!

If you take good care of your cars and want to spend/waste your money on that sort of stuff, its not going to hurt you... That's the beauty of those products. If you don't take care of your cars and/or buy neglected cars, well who knows what can of worms you are opening...

The solution the the OP's problem could be anything. I was simply stating that the first thing he needs to do is drain the tank and fill the car with fresh gas. That may or may not fix the problem but at least he can get that crap out of his tank. I wouldn't be surprised if the car had a fair amount of sediment in the tank that the fuel treatment loosened up, got suck up by the pump and plugged the filter..... Would not be the first time I've seen that happen.

pondfisher

I agree get the tank clean and baseline with fresh unadulterated gas.

IncgntoLex

Thats dead on! The heavy varnish effects stale fuel has in addition to the way it draws water into a fuel system contributes to failure. The filter, seals, and any other part of the fuel system are eaten away by bad fuel. Toss some cleaner in the mix and you could cause debris including pieces of a broken down fuel filter and buildup to be flushed directly to the injectors resulting in a few being plugged. Lucky for us the ucf10/20 are well designed and odds are no debris made the way in the system. If it was me I would take the advice to drain the tank of all fuel and start over. You could disconnect the fuel line just before the rail, direct the line to a fuel container. Then jump the diag terminals causing the fuel pump to turn on and get every bit of fuel out of the tank. ( if its flowing really slow then the filter may be clogged, change it to avoid stress on the pump- a little bad fuel wont hurt your new filter too much). Once it runs dry add fresh fuel to push any remaining fuel from the lines and filter. Reconect the line to the rail. There may still be a little old fuel ontop of the injectors and in the rail. But I wouldnt worry. It will work itself out. Words of caution running the pump dry is not good for it either. But at least you will get everybit of the bad fuel out.

LScowboyLS

Oh good grief - it is NOT caustic, it is diethyl ether, and in fact, it is the main ingredient in some MAF cleaners! - nor does ether damage a paper filter, where do you get this silliness?
I have used this 100 times on my '96 - might hurt a karman vortex AFM, but not the MAF on the 95 and newer LS400

and even if it could damage the MAF, which it doesn't, I would much rather replace a MAF than a starter on an LS400 from overheating it trying to get it to start! - the MAF takes 5 minutes to replace, the starter takes all day and all night!

PureDrifter

iTrader: (10)

NO maf cleaner will use diethyl ether. it's too flammable and does unkind things to plastic. most MAF cleaners use hexane/hexane isomers, no ether at all. It isn't caustic though it is a solvent.

diethyl ether isn't the kindest thing to plastic, which makes up the MAFs on these cars (internals on AFMs, complete unit for MAFs)

LScowboyLS

so after 100 uses of starting fluid, if I open up my MAF and there is no damage whatsoever to the plastic nor to it operationally, can we then finally conclude that PD is just sometimes a "full of baloney" alarmist? - lol

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

Seriously give your head a shake.
You'd rather damage a $500-1000 part doing something the wrong way because it takes 5 mins to replace than a $200 part because it takes 5-10hours to replace.
That wasn't even what was being suggested?!


Where do you get this silliness?
I'd rather do it the proper way, how I outlined, and not damage EITHER!
I never said don't use starter spray, just don't use it the lazy way you suggested for that sake of not causing collateral damage to other parts. Takes all of an extra minute to pull a breather or PCV line to inject your starter fluid and you WON'T damage anything.
Seems like the smart way... Oh guess what, it's also the way most manufactures suggest you do it too! Guess what else, also for the exact reasons I said not to do it before the filter?!?!!

You doing something 100 times, lol, does not make it proof!
Not only that, every starting fluid is not formulated the EXACT SAME WAY! Brand A and brand B can use completely different chemicals which react completely differently to other materials. Same thing with MAF cleaners, many of which are known to damage certain types of MAFs which they claim to clean,

Just because the one you use doesn't or hasn't (that you know of) cause you an issue doesn't mean that someone else, reading your hack-job advice, is going to buy the same product you use --by chance-- and have the exact same results. Your assumptions and unfounded advice are an issue.

Most starting fuilds are not supposed to come in contact with paint, certain types of plastic as per the directions on the side of the cans, like the 2 kinds I have I'm my garage for instance, most even warn against shooting pre filter and outline the exact method I suggested.

I outlined a method which would keep people from burning out their starter AND damaging their MAF... Don't know about you but I'd rather not replace either and I'd certainly not want to have to replace one because I got some poor advice from someone who doesn't seem to take proper care of their cars to need to have to use starter fluid hundreds of times...

And for the record, any foreign fluid going over just about any kind of MAF can potentially damage the sensor. It can deteriorate the plastic, as PD stated, or it can leave a film on the sensor itself which can also alter your sensor output signals very negatively. On Hotwire MAFs, for eg, you are essentially blasting super-cooled fuel over the maf sensor which not only causes your ECU to freak out from the sudden massive drop in temperature, but can also damage the sensor circuit, as suddenly the ECU is forced to send a surge of current to bring the sensor element back up to temp spec... This can burn out the sensor or worse, can burn out an ECU driver.

Also, not everyone has a paper filter nor are all starting sprays paper filter friendly. Most starting fluids on a K&N or similar filter can and will destroy the filter element... Maybe not from one shot but that one shot will remove some (or all of, if you spray and excessive amount) of the oil on the element reducing the effectiveness of the filter in that area; which also happens to usually be the same area where the filter does most of the work. Great advice, once again from you.


Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you.

You seem to have done everything a 100 times... Even things, that in the 12 years of being a tech and working on TENS OF THOUSANDS of customer cars, I haven't even done a hundred times. That suggests one of two things, you grossly over exaggerate everything and your posts need to be read with that understanding or you don't bother to fix your cars properly. I'm inclined to believe it is a bit of both. lol

RA40

iTrader: (6)

Ok guys, there are differing view points on this situation. We don't mind a good discussion when it comes to the implementation of the product, not at each other. At this stage of the discussion just agree that there will be varying thoughts.

I'm taking this from the debate rules section, the same rules and courtesy to our forum members applies throughout Club Lexus.

Let's play nicely.

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

Fair enough.

freegard

I never go for the quick fix; the quick fix always causes problems later.
The only thing I ever would put in my fuel tank is "heat" which is simply
methyl alcohol. Methyl alcohol is miscible in water and so it
solves the water in the fuel problem IF that is the problem.
Beyond that though:
Spraying starting fluid into your car's intake is another thing I never
do. It is bad for the motor.
All these pour this and spray that suggestions are not good and never
fix the problem.

And as you have already learned, it is not a good idea to listen to them.

Kanderson1

At this point, I am willing to do the safest thing to get it started. Where and how much starting spray would I use to get it going???

Shmee

iTrader: (3)

Remove, drain and clean the tank, refill with fresh gas, replace fuel filter.
Start with that!