Lexus or a Benz ?
12-24-02, 11:37 PM
#16
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I just sold my MB. It was the first and last Mercedes I bought. I have had Toyota vehicles all my life and I am back for good. By the way, what is wrong with being an upscale version of one of the most reliable cars in the world???
Here is a short list of the many problems I had with my "prestigious" (!!) car with the three pointed star:
--the rear window fell into the door FOUR times in 3 years...
--fuel leaked onto the garage floor from the fuel pump (car towed)...
--power steering failure....
--Oxygen sensor failure....
--front lights failed four times...
--sunroof stuck in open numerous times (thankfully it never rained)....
About the window problem that I mentioned. The service advisor told me that the carriage for the glass is made of brittle plastic and it breaks routinely. This part is outsourced to a manufacturer in Germany by Mercedes and the cost of repair is the responsibility of the outsourced firm. Since MB does not have to pay for the cost of the repair, they don't care if the hapless customer has to come to have his car's windows repaired numerous times!! This is the service advisor of MB telling me this about MB service!! If this is not pitiful I don't know what is.
Any way, if you want to spend a lot of time with the service department of your car, go ahead and buy a Merc. If you would rather spend that time with your friends and family driving, buy a Lexus or a Toyota for that matter. There is no shame in driving a well engineered and reliable car that you also paid less for. In fact it is a no brainer.
Here is a short list of the many problems I had with my "prestigious" (!!) car with the three pointed star:
--the rear window fell into the door FOUR times in 3 years...
--fuel leaked onto the garage floor from the fuel pump (car towed)...
--power steering failure....
--Oxygen sensor failure....
--front lights failed four times...
--sunroof stuck in open numerous times (thankfully it never rained)....
About the window problem that I mentioned. The service advisor told me that the carriage for the glass is made of brittle plastic and it breaks routinely. This part is outsourced to a manufacturer in Germany by Mercedes and the cost of repair is the responsibility of the outsourced firm. Since MB does not have to pay for the cost of the repair, they don't care if the hapless customer has to come to have his car's windows repaired numerous times!! This is the service advisor of MB telling me this about MB service!! If this is not pitiful I don't know what is.
Any way, if you want to spend a lot of time with the service department of your car, go ahead and buy a Merc. If you would rather spend that time with your friends and family driving, buy a Lexus or a Toyota for that matter. There is no shame in driving a well engineered and reliable car that you also paid less for. In fact it is a no brainer.
12-25-02, 10:32 PM
#17
Originally posted by Lexozz
I can't believe you actually said something like that especially being a CL member. Lexus is not an upscale Toyota, it's the luxury division of Toyota. The word Lexus means "luxury" and "elegance." Lexus gives a big status symbol just like Benz. Don't get me wrong MB has been around for a long time, Lexus came on the scene about 12 years and they caught up to their competitors so they're doing damn good and just by the quality and reliability alone you have MB, BMW, etc.. coming over to Lexus. My opinion you probably will buy your S-Class., good luck, but when your on the roadside with your 'S' you'll see the LS pass you by and you'll say to your self damn I should've bought an LS...
I can't believe you actually said something like that especially being a CL member. Lexus is not an upscale Toyota, it's the luxury division of Toyota. The word Lexus means "luxury" and "elegance." Lexus gives a big status symbol just like Benz. Don't get me wrong MB has been around for a long time, Lexus came on the scene about 12 years and they caught up to their competitors so they're doing damn good and just by the quality and reliability alone you have MB, BMW, etc.. coming over to Lexus. My opinion you probably will buy your S-Class., good luck, but when your on the roadside with your 'S' you'll see the LS pass you by and you'll say to your self damn I should've bought an LS...
AMEENNNN
12-25-02, 10:34 PM
#18
Re: DEPENDING ON WHICH S-CLASS YOU CHOOSE:
Originally posted by ltauamkau
S600 > S55 > LS430 > S500 > S430
But the LS has better build quality and more reliable than ALL MB's.
MB's - better for a weekend toy/show off car.
Lexus - better daily driver/hassle free family transportation
S600 > S55 > LS430 > S500 > S430
But the LS has better build quality and more reliable than ALL MB's.
MB's - better for a weekend toy/show off car.
Lexus - better daily driver/hassle free family transportation
Have your tried the CL600
......I have.......
12-26-02, 02:49 AM
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Re: Lexus or a Benz ?
Originally posted by Lexs400
Allright well, I'm sure this has been asked a lot of times already. But if one is given a choice between an LS and an S class which would you buy ?
I agree that LS has it's positives but at the end of the day I get the feeling that the benz was and always will be more of a status symbol where as lexus is just thought of as an upscale toyota.
Am I right or ... ?
Allright well, I'm sure this has been asked a lot of times already. But if one is given a choice between an LS and an S class which would you buy ?
I agree that LS has it's positives but at the end of the day I get the feeling that the benz was and always will be more of a status symbol where as lexus is just thought of as an upscale toyota.
Am I right or ... ?
12-26-02, 09:07 AM
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You neglected to mention what years that you were considering!
I'm in the same situation. I'm trying to decide between a '93/'94 LS or W140 500 series. So far the MB is winning out, mainly for the rear seat room for the LWB S-class and power/heated rear seats (whatever happended to the LS 450L Lexus promised in '92?)
Don't get me wrong, I am the original Lexus psycho-fan and the first person on the Lexus lot on the launch day in August '89. Until 1995 I stalked every bit of Lexus minutia.
Anyway- if you are considering a '00 or newer, I would go with the Lexus. As noted by previous poster, once M-B started to go "mainstream" (build vehicles to a price point, not a standard) the product suffered. Cheaper materials, poor construction, even dealer service attitude suffered. (I think they were tainted by Chrysler gremlins with Daimler- Chrysler merger...) Now they are just expensive Chryslers relying on their heritage for the premium cache of owning a Mercedes.
The decision is so personal- What are you going to use the car for?
Do you need more/less rear leg room? (are you comparing LS with SWB or LWB/"V" benz?)
Have you checked the insurance costs? (the LS was almost 1/2 the cost of the S-class for me!)
Are you more of an "ooh-aah gadget" person or one who would forgo the gadgets for dependability? (I'm an ooh-aah-er, just imagining how many times I will have to scream "Don't slam the doors, they'll close themselves!") There are premium toys available on the older MB that couldn't be had on the LS, but these are also more things to go wrong and cost the big $$$ to repair/replace.
Do you want to state "I'm pleased to announce that I have attained my goals" (Lexus) or scream "I'm a sucess!!! Hey! You! Did you notice? I "made it"! (S class)
And when it comes down to it have you considered gas mileage? I would love to have the V-12 600 (would be accused of using Viagra evertime I drove...), but at @ 10mpg mixed cycle, I would just get tired of being at the gas station!
If buying preowned, there seems to be a mixed bag of longevity of materials. I was massively disappointed in the long-term wear of the Lexus interior materials, especially the LCD displays and leather wear compared to the MB, but some colors faded VERY oddly in the MB - I counted 7 different interior tones in one 94 SEL!
Shop you local dealers for service! The MB dealer is frequently out of loaner cars and they act as though they are doing you a favor by charging an arm, leg and ******** for service. My Lexus dealer (previous gf's SC400) sometimes runs out of loaners, but will drop me off and if necessary will drop off a car for me to use later if it becomes available, one out of area dealer pulled an RX from used cars and put dealer tags on it for me to use! A majority of service advisors have been great at the Lexus dealer, went with a friend to pick up her Benz and I was treated very rudely by the M-B staff.
And finally (is he REALLY going to shut up?) keep in mind that the S-class (W140) was at one point 2-4 times the price of the LS. Depreciation takes it's toll on the initial investment, but you will still be purchasing service and parts on a much more expensive vehicle.
Now why am I looking for an S-class again? Oh yeah, my ego, umm... I mean more space for my clients and more toys to play with in traffic. But if I should find the right LS...
I'm in the same situation. I'm trying to decide between a '93/'94 LS or W140 500 series. So far the MB is winning out, mainly for the rear seat room for the LWB S-class and power/heated rear seats (whatever happended to the LS 450L Lexus promised in '92?)
Don't get me wrong, I am the original Lexus psycho-fan and the first person on the Lexus lot on the launch day in August '89. Until 1995 I stalked every bit of Lexus minutia.
Anyway- if you are considering a '00 or newer, I would go with the Lexus. As noted by previous poster, once M-B started to go "mainstream" (build vehicles to a price point, not a standard) the product suffered. Cheaper materials, poor construction, even dealer service attitude suffered. (I think they were tainted by Chrysler gremlins with Daimler- Chrysler merger...) Now they are just expensive Chryslers relying on their heritage for the premium cache of owning a Mercedes.
The decision is so personal- What are you going to use the car for?
Do you need more/less rear leg room? (are you comparing LS with SWB or LWB/"V" benz?)
Have you checked the insurance costs? (the LS was almost 1/2 the cost of the S-class for me!)
Are you more of an "ooh-aah gadget" person or one who would forgo the gadgets for dependability? (I'm an ooh-aah-er, just imagining how many times I will have to scream "Don't slam the doors, they'll close themselves!") There are premium toys available on the older MB that couldn't be had on the LS, but these are also more things to go wrong and cost the big $$$ to repair/replace.
Do you want to state "I'm pleased to announce that I have attained my goals" (Lexus) or scream "I'm a sucess!!! Hey! You! Did you notice? I "made it"! (S class)
And when it comes down to it have you considered gas mileage? I would love to have the V-12 600 (would be accused of using Viagra evertime I drove...), but at @ 10mpg mixed cycle, I would just get tired of being at the gas station!
If buying preowned, there seems to be a mixed bag of longevity of materials. I was massively disappointed in the long-term wear of the Lexus interior materials, especially the LCD displays and leather wear compared to the MB, but some colors faded VERY oddly in the MB - I counted 7 different interior tones in one 94 SEL!
Shop you local dealers for service! The MB dealer is frequently out of loaner cars and they act as though they are doing you a favor by charging an arm, leg and ******** for service. My Lexus dealer (previous gf's SC400) sometimes runs out of loaners, but will drop me off and if necessary will drop off a car for me to use later if it becomes available, one out of area dealer pulled an RX from used cars and put dealer tags on it for me to use! A majority of service advisors have been great at the Lexus dealer, went with a friend to pick up her Benz and I was treated very rudely by the M-B staff.
And finally (is he REALLY going to shut up?) keep in mind that the S-class (W140) was at one point 2-4 times the price of the LS. Depreciation takes it's toll on the initial investment, but you will still be purchasing service and parts on a much more expensive vehicle.
Now why am I looking for an S-class again? Oh yeah, my ego, umm... I mean more space for my clients and more toys to play with in traffic. But if I should find the right LS...
12-26-02, 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by 42N8
You neglected to mention what years that you were considering!
I'm in the same situation. I'm trying to decide between a '93/'94 LS or W140 500 series. So far the MB is winning out, mainly for the rear seat room for the LWB S-class and power/heated rear seats
Are you more of an "ooh-aah gadget" person or one who would forgo the gadgets for dependability? (I'm an ooh-aah-er, just imagining how many times I will have to scream "Don't slam the doors, they'll close themselves!") There are premium toys available on the older MB that couldn't be had on the LS, but these are also more things to go wrong and cost the big $$$ to repair/replace.
Do you want to state "I'm pleased to announce that I have attained my goals" (Lexus) or scream "I'm a sucess!!! Hey! You! Did you notice? I "made it"! (S class)
And when it comes down to it have you considered gas mileage? I would love to have the V-12 600 (would be accused of using Viagra evertime I drove...), but at @ 10mpg mixed cycle, I would just get tired of being at the gas station!
If buying preowned, there seems to be a mixed bag of longevity of materials. I was massively disappointed in the long-term wear of the Lexus interior materials, especially the LCD displays and leather wear compared to the MB, but some colors faded VERY oddly in the MB - I counted 7 different interior tones in one 94 SEL!
Shop you local dealers for service! The MB dealer is frequently out of loaner cars and they act as though they are doing you a favor by charging an arm, leg and ******** for service. My Lexus dealer (previous gf's SC400) sometimes runs out of loaners, but will drop me off and if necessary will drop off a car for me to use later if it becomes available, one out of area dealer pulled an RX from used cars and put dealer tags on it for me to use! A majority of service advisors have been great at the Lexus dealer, went with a friend to pick up her Benz and I was treated very rudely by the M-B staff.
And finally (is he REALLY going to shut up?) keep in mind that the S-class (W140) was at one point 2-4 times the price of the LS. Depreciation takes it's toll on the initial investment, but you will still be purchasing service and parts on a much more expensive vehicle.
Now why am I looking for an S-class again? Oh yeah, my ego, umm... I mean more space for my clients and more toys to play with in traffic. But if I should find the right LS...
You neglected to mention what years that you were considering!
I'm in the same situation. I'm trying to decide between a '93/'94 LS or W140 500 series. So far the MB is winning out, mainly for the rear seat room for the LWB S-class and power/heated rear seats
Are you more of an "ooh-aah gadget" person or one who would forgo the gadgets for dependability? (I'm an ooh-aah-er, just imagining how many times I will have to scream "Don't slam the doors, they'll close themselves!") There are premium toys available on the older MB that couldn't be had on the LS, but these are also more things to go wrong and cost the big $$$ to repair/replace.
Do you want to state "I'm pleased to announce that I have attained my goals" (Lexus) or scream "I'm a sucess!!! Hey! You! Did you notice? I "made it"! (S class)
And when it comes down to it have you considered gas mileage? I would love to have the V-12 600 (would be accused of using Viagra evertime I drove...), but at @ 10mpg mixed cycle, I would just get tired of being at the gas station!
If buying preowned, there seems to be a mixed bag of longevity of materials. I was massively disappointed in the long-term wear of the Lexus interior materials, especially the LCD displays and leather wear compared to the MB, but some colors faded VERY oddly in the MB - I counted 7 different interior tones in one 94 SEL!
Shop you local dealers for service! The MB dealer is frequently out of loaner cars and they act as though they are doing you a favor by charging an arm, leg and ******** for service. My Lexus dealer (previous gf's SC400) sometimes runs out of loaners, but will drop me off and if necessary will drop off a car for me to use later if it becomes available, one out of area dealer pulled an RX from used cars and put dealer tags on it for me to use! A majority of service advisors have been great at the Lexus dealer, went with a friend to pick up her Benz and I was treated very rudely by the M-B staff.
And finally (is he REALLY going to shut up?) keep in mind that the S-class (W140) was at one point 2-4 times the price of the LS. Depreciation takes it's toll on the initial investment, but you will still be purchasing service and parts on a much more expensive vehicle.
Now why am I looking for an S-class again? Oh yeah, my ego, umm... I mean more space for my clients and more toys to play with in traffic. But if I should find the right LS...
I really like(have always) the W-140 version of the S class. I am looking at one for next year. I think I'll let my son(he starts driving next summer) use our 90 and I'll get a W-140 for my next car. My wife has the 93 and I'll keep the 90 as a back-up for myself in case the W 140 is in the shop. I am going all the way and getting the S600 sedan. I just can't deny myself all that passing power and I especially like the interior. The all leather dash and door panels, extra interior wood and the wood/leather steering wheel. As well as being fully optioned. Just a tank of a car. Yes, I will be using more gas but if you add it up as an annual expense it's not that significant. 94-99 S600's can be had for 20K-35K. Maybe a little less by the fall of next year when I'm looking to pick one up. Always wanted one..............gotta have it!
Our 2 LS 400's aren't going anywhere though. Love them too!D.K.
12-27-02, 11:46 PM
#22
Originally posted by D.K.
I really like(have always) the W-140 version of the S class. I am looking at one for next year. I think I'll let my son(he starts driving next summer) use our 90 and I'll get a W-140 for my next car. My wife has the 93 and I'll keep the 90 as a back-up for myself in case the W 140 is in the shop. I am going all the way and getting the S600 sedan. I just can't deny myself all that passing power and I especially like the interior. The all leather dash and door panels, extra interior wood and the wood/leather steering wheel. As well as being fully optioned. Just a tank of a car. Yes, I will be using more gas but if you add it up as an annual expense it's not that significant. 94-99 S600's can be had for 20K-35K. Maybe a little less by the fall of next year when I'm looking to pick one up. Always wanted one..............gotta have it! Our 2 LS 400's aren't going anywhere though. Love them too!
D.K.
I really like(have always) the W-140 version of the S class. I am looking at one for next year. I think I'll let my son(he starts driving next summer) use our 90 and I'll get a W-140 for my next car. My wife has the 93 and I'll keep the 90 as a back-up for myself in case the W 140 is in the shop. I am going all the way and getting the S600 sedan. I just can't deny myself all that passing power and I especially like the interior. The all leather dash and door panels, extra interior wood and the wood/leather steering wheel. As well as being fully optioned. Just a tank of a car. Yes, I will be using more gas but if you add it up as an annual expense it's not that significant. 94-99 S600's can be had for 20K-35K. Maybe a little less by the fall of next year when I'm looking to pick one up. Always wanted one..............gotta have it!
Our 2 LS 400's aren't going anywhere though. Love them too!D.K.
01-01-03, 08:11 PM
#24
Originally posted by Aristo2JG
Lexus is Toyota.
Mercedes benz is chrysler...??
Lexus is Toyota.
Mercedes benz is chrysler...??
01-02-03, 09:18 PM
#25
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or what??
THis has been a fun thread, but why is the discussion LS VS MB?
Wouldn't it be more fun to compare LS to Q?
Dec 20th my LS went to car heaven, as a rogue F-350
smashed into its rear at 50mph.
I was faced with searching for a new LS to replace it.
I wanted a newer one so I raised my available cash
to 20K. The search went on.
What I found was, it was hard to find a LS that wasnt high mile
or beat. (thats my market problem not a global problem I hope)
or crazy money ($27 for a 96!) so I went for a Q with 39K mi for $20K. Still love the LS, just Q had the juice the toys and the red dots in Consumer Reports. I found a nice 99 LS but it was $15K more ($35K) . The difference in quality speed quiet toys etc. wasnt worth the $15K, so I went Q. Discuss.
For the record, I still think LS is at the top, Q is very close though.
Best wishes
Wouldn't it be more fun to compare LS to Q?
Dec 20th my LS went to car heaven, as a rogue F-350
smashed into its rear at 50mph.
I was faced with searching for a new LS to replace it.
I wanted a newer one so I raised my available cash
to 20K. The search went on.
What I found was, it was hard to find a LS that wasnt high mile
or beat. (thats my market problem not a global problem I hope)
or crazy money ($27 for a 96!) so I went for a Q with 39K mi for $20K. Still love the LS, just Q had the juice the toys and the red dots in Consumer Reports. I found a nice 99 LS but it was $15K more ($35K) . The difference in quality speed quiet toys etc. wasnt worth the $15K, so I went Q. Discuss.
For the record, I still think LS is at the top, Q is very close though.
Best wishes
01-02-03, 10:33 PM
#26
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Re: Lexus or a Benz ?
Originally posted by Lexs400
Am I right or ... ?
Am I right or ... ?
01-03-03, 12:11 AM
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Originally posted by vraa
i think it would be the other way around no? i'm not sure tho.. i thought it was more of a takeover with chysler being on the smaller end instead of a true merge.
i think it would be the other way around no? i'm not sure tho.. i thought it was more of a takeover with chysler being on the smaller end instead of a true merge.
01-03-03, 12:32 AM
#28
Whenever i see any lexus in a lighter color like White i think of an extremely upscale, high class, person that hey, i've got it made and stuff. To me it just doesn't happen like that with benz. BUT, when i see a dark colored lexus, i dont get that same feeling but i get it with a dark colored benz. Red and yellow tho for me just don't cut it for either car! lol
01-03-03, 11:55 PM
#29
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My lawyer went from the last model of the LS400 to a new S500 a year or so ago. He says the only thing he does not miss about the LS is the lack of power. Other than the increase in power the S500 is no comparison. He actually misses the LS a lot, especially when the Benz is in the shop, for "stupid things".
Chas
Chas
01-05-03, 08:14 AM
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Real World
This is exactly what I have been debating for some time now MB vs L. Although my cash flow has dictated that I look at E500 vs. LS430. I keep coming back to the LS for several reasons, most importantly - reliability and quality.
I'd love a MB for just the reasons cited here - "finally made it" type statement. And I've liked them since living 3x over in Germany as kid and then while in Army and enjoyed watching them blow my doors off on the Autobahn. Plus it was great fun to see them used as taxi's and watch new arrivals in country drop their jaws when the taxi pulled up - folks so used to beat up yellow chevy & fords.
The number of folks who own MB's and talk on various boards about constant issues is what keeps me not spending cash on one. I'll stay with Lexus and make my LS purchase upon completing a relocation later this year.
I'd love a MB for just the reasons cited here - "finally made it" type statement. And I've liked them since living 3x over in Germany as kid and then while in Army and enjoyed watching them blow my doors off on the Autobahn. Plus it was great fun to see them used as taxi's and watch new arrivals in country drop their jaws when the taxi pulled up - folks so used to beat up yellow chevy & fords.
The number of folks who own MB's and talk on various boards about constant issues is what keeps me not spending cash on one. I'll stay with Lexus and make my LS purchase upon completing a relocation later this year.