Alignment Woes for 1st Gen - Rear Right
10-15-14, 09:49 AM
#1
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Alignment Woes for 1st Gen - Rear Right
I just got the alignment checked with following results:
front:
left; right
0.10; -0.58 deg camber
9.66; 9.40 deg caster
0.17; 0.25 deg toe
rear:
left; right
-0.93; -1.92 deg camber
-0.34; -0.32 deg toe
I don’t know how alignment could go off so bad all of a sudden. Technician is recommending to replace right rear lower suspension arm to make the proper adjustment. But I thought the rear was more flexible to adjust; even up to 2 degree. How could the rear, right could go off that much? The rear right tire is worn at inside almost to the bald within 4,000 miles. Fairly new tire has become useless within 4K miles. Any comment on the right rear suspension arm in order to make camber adjustment? Any comment would be appreciated.
front:
left; right
0.10; -0.58 deg camber
9.66; 9.40 deg caster
0.17; 0.25 deg toe
rear:
left; right
-0.93; -1.92 deg camber
-0.34; -0.32 deg toe
I don’t know how alignment could go off so bad all of a sudden. Technician is recommending to replace right rear lower suspension arm to make the proper adjustment. But I thought the rear was more flexible to adjust; even up to 2 degree. How could the rear, right could go off that much? The rear right tire is worn at inside almost to the bald within 4,000 miles. Fairly new tire has become useless within 4K miles. Any comment on the right rear suspension arm in order to make camber adjustment? Any comment would be appreciated.
10-15-14, 10:21 AM
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What to do>>>
RA40,
Yes, all of my suspension parts are original and I am still quite content with the ride quality. Only thing I've changed was both front and rear sway bar bushings.
Should I replace lower control arm bushing at the knuckle end before performing alignment? I've read from this forum that the inner bushings on the lower control arm is usually OK. Is the lower control arm, the only thing that will be used to adjust the rear axle camber? Is there an adjustment on the upper control arm?
Also at this time, alignment is in order and I have an option to get lifetime alignment from Firestone for $190 relative to the $75 one-tine alignment from Pepboys. Any recommendation which to go with?
Yes, all of my suspension parts are original and I am still quite content with the ride quality. Only thing I've changed was both front and rear sway bar bushings.
Should I replace lower control arm bushing at the knuckle end before performing alignment? I've read from this forum that the inner bushings on the lower control arm is usually OK. Is the lower control arm, the only thing that will be used to adjust the rear axle camber? Is there an adjustment on the upper control arm?
Also at this time, alignment is in order and I have an option to get lifetime alignment from Firestone for $190 relative to the $75 one-tine alignment from Pepboys. Any recommendation which to go with?
10-15-14, 10:43 AM
#4
i'm with RA40, i would go to another shop and have them align it. not all techs are knowledgeable (unfortunately).
i like getting the lifetime alignment since i have it checked every year or so. usually the variance isn't too much between checks but i like the peace of mind. firestone has many locations too so it helps if your location has that sub-par tech, you have the option to take it elsewhere. also some locations have better alignment racks than others. it all depends on your preference.
i like getting the lifetime alignment since i have it checked every year or so. usually the variance isn't too much between checks but i like the peace of mind. firestone has many locations too so it helps if your location has that sub-par tech, you have the option to take it elsewhere. also some locations have better alignment racks than others. it all depends on your preference.
10-15-14, 11:58 AM
#5
I know of a guy years ago that had his sub frame damaged by some idiot doing the alignment. All new parts and not tight, the guy was using an air chisel to try to loosen something that was not tight so it slips off an goes through the sheet metal. I don't trust anyone working on my stuff. Especially some po'ed employee at a shop.
Anything that has looseness will show up at the wheel alignment, it seems the neg camber is on the right hand side, it could be bushing wear, and it could also be who ever set the alignment last time too. Has the car gone off the road, hit a curb or ?
The negative toe is what is killing tires along with that neg camber on rh rear.
Heres specs at bottom.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...ent-specs.html
Anything that has looseness will show up at the wheel alignment, it seems the neg camber is on the right hand side, it could be bushing wear, and it could also be who ever set the alignment last time too. Has the car gone off the road, hit a curb or ?
The negative toe is what is killing tires along with that neg camber on rh rear.
Heres specs at bottom.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...ent-specs.html
Last edited by dicer; 10-15-14 at 12:06 PM.
10-15-14, 02:05 PM
#6
The tech should be able to tell you if the bushings are worn because the settings will change as they get torqued down. The conservative approach will be to replace all the bushings because fixing one will show that the one that wasn't replaced is also worn. Then you'll have to go back in and replace that along with another alignment. Unfortunately this is $$ but for long term ownership, this will yield an improved ride and being able to get a good alignment.
As for the Lifetime, up to you. With the pot hole rut ridden LA-OC streets, it isn't hard to ruin an alignment. If the car isn't running over things or going up curbs, once a good alignment is dialed in don't have it changed for the sake of it. I always disliked when buying tires that the shop would push an alignment because it had fresh rubber. I had a good alignment but got talked into spending more $ thinking of the tires.
For me , monitor tire wear and when it indicates something is off, then I pursue the fix.
In the instance of suspension work-changes, an alignment is necessary.
As for the Lifetime, up to you. With the pot hole rut ridden LA-OC streets, it isn't hard to ruin an alignment. If the car isn't running over things or going up curbs, once a good alignment is dialed in don't have it changed for the sake of it. I always disliked when buying tires that the shop would push an alignment because it had fresh rubber. I had a good alignment but got talked into spending more $ thinking of the tires.
For me , monitor tire wear and when it indicates something is off, then I pursue the fix. In the instance of suspension work-changes, an alignment is necessary.
10-15-14, 04:11 PM
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Alignment Done
I took the advice from timmy0tool and went to Firestone to get the job done, lifetime alignment, that is. They were able to set the rear-right to the factory spec without any problem. However, they had trouble adjusting the rear-left as the adjusting on lower control arm bolt stripped. There is a bolt that is used on the lower control arm to make toe adjustment and that is called "Rear Toe Excentric Bolt" (see attached). Technician claims this happens to older vehicle driven in rust belt and I agreed. Now I have to buy the bolt and this is a dealer only item. I am not sure what the part number would be or if there will be a counter parts from Toyota. Anyone?
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10-15-14, 04:30 PM
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Alignment Spec - Before
Another funny thing I should mention is that now I have two alignment specs before the job done from two places. They are within proximity but the front is somewhat off.
Here is the spec from first place:
Front
Left; Right
0.10; -0.58 Camber
9.66; 9.40 Caster
0.17; 0.25 Toe
Rear
Left; Right
-0.93; -1.92 Camber
-0.34; -0.32 Toe
And here is the spec from the second place
Front
Left; Right
0.0; -0.3 Camber
9.6; 9.4 Caster
0.30; 0.27 Toe
Rear
Left; Right
-0.9; -1.7 Camber
-0.34; -0.3 Toe
Here is the spec from first place:
Front
Left; Right
0.10; -0.58 Camber
9.66; 9.40 Caster
0.17; 0.25 Toe
Rear
Left; Right
-0.93; -1.92 Camber
-0.34; -0.32 Toe
And here is the spec from the second place
Front
Left; Right
0.0; -0.3 Camber
9.6; 9.4 Caster
0.30; 0.27 Toe
Rear
Left; Right
-0.9; -1.7 Camber
-0.34; -0.3 Toe
10-15-14, 06:59 PM
#10
the bolt you show looks ok from what i can see. what i am afraid is that the 'slot' or groove where the eccentric bolt rotates around might be the 'stripped' part. this is part of your subframe which cannot be replaced. rotating the bolt makes the eccentric part push or pull the arm against the subframe to the right alignment specs.
example 'slot' or groove i am referring to is shown here, at the 9 and 3 oclock positions. if this groove is rounded on your subframe, turning the bolts will not do anything.
i had the same thing happen to my is300! what the tech did was have another tech pull on the wheel to get the alignment to spec, then he tightened the eccentric bolt. not the best solution but it holds.
example 'slot' or groove i am referring to is shown here, at the 9 and 3 oclock positions. if this groove is rounded on your subframe, turning the bolts will not do anything.
i had the same thing happen to my is300! what the tech did was have another tech pull on the wheel to get the alignment to spec, then he tightened the eccentric bolt. not the best solution but it holds.
10-15-14, 09:35 PM
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the bolt you show looks ok from what i can see. what i am afraid is that the 'slot' or groove where the eccentric bolt rotates around might be the 'stripped' part. this is part of your subframe which cannot be replaced. rotating the bolt makes the eccentric part push or pull the arm against the subframe to the right alignment specs.
example 'slot' or groove i am referring to is shown here, at the 9 and 3 oclock positions. if this groove is rounded on your subframe, turning the bolts will not do anything.
i had the same thing happen to my is300! what the tech did was have another tech pull on the wheel to get the alignment to spec, then he tightened the eccentric bolt. not the best solution but it holds.
example 'slot' or groove i am referring to is shown here, at the 9 and 3 oclock positions. if this groove is rounded on your subframe, turning the bolts will not do anything.
i had the same thing happen to my is300! what the tech did was have another tech pull on the wheel to get the alignment to spec, then he tightened the eccentric bolt. not the best solution but it holds.
The pic of part I attached is NOT the bolt that was taken out. I pulled the pic from a site and it may not even be the bolt that is used for LS.
The technician just said to get the bolt and cam and he will replace the bolt and realign the rear-right wheel. Looking through the parts diagram, it looks like the cam portion of part is part number 48198-50011 and bolt with cams are 48190-50011, it seems. It is hard to tell with out the parts pic in the on-line part store sites. First part is named "CAM, REAR SUSPENSION CAMBER ADJUST, No.2." and second one is named "CAM ASSEMBLY, CAMBER ADJUST".
10-16-14, 12:04 PM
#12
didn't mean to scare but it is good news that the culprit could still be the eccentric bolt. i like to use the sewell lexus website where the actual parts breakdown is shown.
http://lexus.sewellparts.com/oem-cat...S400-1993.html
if the frame is truly stripped, the only fix i could think of other than getting a new subframe, is to add metal by making precise welds next to the eccentric bolts. i would definitely try to replace the bolts first to see if that remedy's the problem before tackling the subframe.
http://lexus.sewellparts.com/oem-cat...S400-1993.html
if the frame is truly stripped, the only fix i could think of other than getting a new subframe, is to add metal by making precise welds next to the eccentric bolts. i would definitely try to replace the bolts first to see if that remedy's the problem before tackling the subframe.
10-16-14, 12:13 PM
#13
btw, there are two eccentric bolts on each rear corner; one for the toe rod and one for the lower control arm. depending on what was stripped on your car, get the correct one for the appropriate rod or arm (obviously). reference the schematic.
also i suggest you buy from sewell lexus parts! make an account with them. when doing so you, there is a portion to say that you are part of club lexus and you will get a nice discount upon checkout. the price you see now is not the price you pay for unless you sign up as being in the club
!
also i suggest you buy from sewell lexus parts! make an account with them. when doing so you, there is a portion to say that you are part of club lexus and you will get a nice discount upon checkout. the price you see now is not the price you pay for unless you sign up as being in the club
!
10-16-14, 12:49 PM
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Parts to Buy
didn't mean to scare but it is good news that the culprit could still be the eccentric bolt. i like to use the sewell lexus website where the actual parts breakdown is shown.
http://lexus.sewellparts.com/oem-cat...S400-1993.html
if the frame is truly stripped, the only fix i could think of other than getting a new subframe, is to add metal by making precise welds next to the eccentric bolts. i would definitely try to replace the bolts first to see if that remedy's the problem before tackling the subframe.
http://lexus.sewellparts.com/oem-cat...S400-1993.html
if the frame is truly stripped, the only fix i could think of other than getting a new subframe, is to add metal by making precise welds next to the eccentric bolts. i would definitely try to replace the bolts first to see if that remedy's the problem before tackling the subframe.
48190-50011 - I think is the bolt itself with a nut like thing (eccentric washer?) attached to the bolt head.
48198-50011 - I think is the eccentric washer.
90170-14023 - Nut.
90201-14020 - Washer
If a part is stripped, would it be the bolt (48190-50011) or eccentric washer (48198-50011)? Or do I need to buy both?
I am not sure if I can have shop be responsible for any of this if the subframe is stripped.... What do you think?
10-16-14, 01:55 PM
#15
depending on what 'stripped' you may get just the part that was compromised. for good measure, if you can afford to, i would get all four parts which you have outlined correctly (for the toe arm) just to eliminate it completely.
shop can be held responsible for the subframe strip but it's hard to prove and might not be worth the trouble. it's simply typical 'wear and tear' or just the nature of the old metal, corrosion, etc. even if it was stripped, the alignment can be adjusted and locked down by the two-technician method i explained before.
shop can be held responsible for the subframe strip but it's hard to prove and might not be worth the trouble. it's simply typical 'wear and tear' or just the nature of the old metal, corrosion, etc. even if it was stripped, the alignment can be adjusted and locked down by the two-technician method i explained before.