DK Audio

NOT GOOD
I spoke to the mechanic who did the starter, this is my co-workers brother in law at a respected shop, gets incredible reviews. He always took me back to show me the bad parts and why they were bad, etc. He basically said he isn't too interested in looking at it, worried it might be over his head. He asked me some questions to try and troubleshoot, kept mentioning injectors and maybe packs/plugs. I told him it was across multiple cylinders and I can hear a sucking noise now and that the carb cleaner was getting burned and exited the exhaust, clearly a leak.

SO,
at this point I guess I have no option but to attempt this myself. I will wrench a couple hours after work when I can. I was wondering if someone experienced with this can write me a layman terms procedure? I looked at it for a long time yesterday and this is what it looks like to me...

-drain some coolant
-disconnect multiple vacuum hoses
-pull fuse for fuel pump and run car until it dies, disconnect fuel supply line driver side, kind of by the fender, in front of the master cylinder.
-unplug injector wires.
-looks like some T-40 torx and then a nut in each corner to pull off the intake. Looks like the throttle body, fuel rails and injectors can all stay and comes off in 1 big piece.

Is that pretty much it? I just hope once this is off that something obvious will be there.

djamps

/facepalm

Time for a bad review IMO. At least after you fix his shoddy work yourself.

I don't know about LS platforms but I have alot of experience with VQ35 (nissan/infiniti) and it's really easy to crack the aluminum manifolds if you're hasty on torquing stuff down. Almost smells like a crack to me.

DK Audio

Think I found it!
These intake gaskets are falling apart, they have a plastic material with thin metal on each side, the plastic was all busted and probably sucking in air. Did he way over torque these?
So, what are good ones that I should get? Never want this to happen again. Here are some pics...

dicer

He likely never replaced them and they had already been cracked etc. are they easy to crack? Old and crispy from age and heat. Its very hard to find a trusted mechanic. They are always rushing and just don't care usually.
Always hammer, pry, gouge scratch, and mess up parts and paint or what ever. I know I have worked with many in past years.
Go buy them at a Toyota dealer.

DK Audio

Toyota by me doesn't have them, he said it will have to be a Lexus dealer. Lexus dealer is pretty far from me, what about online? I checked RockAuto and don't see an OEM one. They do have Fel-Pro upper and lower for only $20, seems really low. My concern is the ones I took off had that inner spacer, they were probably 1/8" to 3/16" thick or so. The Fel-Pro ones just look like a paper gasket. I didn't see any at RockAuto that said OEM.

DK Audio

The Lexus 40 min away only has 1 side. The Lexus well over an hour from me has 2 in stock. Grrr, yeah, maybe online. Their price was only around $35 ea though, not too bad. So where can I get these online? I know our favorite dealer who gave ClubLexus discounts is no longer around.

EDIT

I just ordered from
mylparts
Part 1717150020, looks like the same for LH and RH sides.

djamps

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Gdwrench35

The fel pro stuff would work fine, the spacer you mention is part of the new gaskets. Either they weren't replaced or they were waaaay over-torqued. Either way, I'd take those gaskets to the grease monkey that worked on it and kindly insert them in his anus.

While it can be difficult to find a good tech, you as the consumer typically make the situation worse. If you shop around for the cheapest guy, then you get what you paid for. Good techs are NOT cheap. That's because we do things correctly. The cheap guys, get you done, out the door quick, and you usually have problems again in rapid fashion.

I see people use the term 'stealership' all the time. Such a stupid term. The good ones are where the money is and its usually dealerships. There are independents out there that pay a competitive wage but they are few and far between. The odds of you getting a good tech at a chain store (jiffy lube, firestone, goodyear, NTB, etc) are slim to none. They pay crap. They hire crap. They do crap work. Again, you get what you pay for.

I'm not saying this is the case for you specifically (the OP), I just get tired of ignorant people lumping all of us techs together in blanket statements like the above. I've worked with the guys as described above, and they usually don't last long. I've had to babysit guys like that and I hated it. I've had to fire lots of guys like that and I'll admit, it felt pretty good. I care very much about what I do and I treat everyone's car like its my own. I can say the same for everyone that works around me. Yes, there are bad ones, but were not all bad. Pony up and pay for a good one, you won't be disappointed.

Almost forgot, good job DK. Admit it, it wasn't as hard as you thought right? Glad you got to the bottom of it and it wasn't too pricey.

DK Audio

Yes, I was so happy to see the cracked gaskets, it finally meant something! I thought I found a good trustworthy mechanic and he is definitely not the cheapest. His friend and him started this shop out of high school, they are both now in their 50's I'd guess. They have all the certifications and like I said, everyone loves them. This definitely makes me think twice about ever going back, especially since he said he wasn't that interested in looking at it. If he made it right that would be one thing but he didn't.

sha4000

iTrader: (1)

This is why I would ask for the old parts.

DK Audio

I think they were new but WAY over torqued. The torque spec is 13ftlbs, I used a 3/8" ratchet and had to really work on a few of them before they'd turn. I think this over torque just crushed the inside spacer.

Gdwrench35

I would present what you found to the shop owner. If he still won't own up to his responsibility, then I'd stick it to him.

I've seen better than half a dozen cases over the years where a customer sued shops for different reasons and the customer ALWAYS won. Even when the evidence was in the shops favor, the customer collected. I'm no lawyer and I don't understand why, but that seems to be the case.

I'm still not convinced the gaskets were replaced to begin with. I don't think they ever replaced them. Especially now that I know the shop owner is 'aged' a bit. Most older techs have never seen a starter under an intake manifold. I've seen numerous service advisers and older techs screw up and give quotes on that starter replacement and not include the intake gaskets. Then you have to

1. call the customer and sell the gaskets to them after the fact which nobody ever wants to do

2. eat the cost of the gaskets to save face

3. don't replace them and pray.

The latter is usually the chosen option. And billing you for them anyway, what a douche.

But these are all assumptions and you know what assuming does. ASSUME *** U ME

Give the guy a chance to own up to it. Maybe on the phone he didn't think it was related to what he did. Any good tech seeing those gaskets would know what happened.

dicer

The felpro would likely work just fine. Usually that material would be a silicone or rubber like material in other words kind of like an o ring. And not a hard plastic, especially on a inlet manifold gasket that thick. Even if it was to be a heat isolator I don't think they would use hard plastic. I really don't remember I have had them off before too, its been 4 years now. I will be doing one soon.

DK Audio

So has anybody ordered from mylparts before? I ordered on 10/27 and got priority 2 day shipping. On 10/27 the status said "complete" and "shipped" but I still have yet to receive an order email and there is no tracking either, weird, hopefully they show up today.

Gdwrench35

Never used them before. I usually use rockauto for online parts. Hope you get your stuff soon. We had some issues at the shop this week getting some parts in from the south. Got some story about weather issues.

Sorry, I missed this comment before.

I bet you would like to see how I do it I did one today on an 02 in less than 2 hours. They get pretty easy after the first 12 or so. The starter bolts are easy if you have the right tools. And half that stuff on the intake doesn't even have to be disconnected. If your taking the intake out of the engine bay, your doing it wrong. Lowering the transmission would only make it harder. If you think that starter is tough, try a BMW 3.0. Talk about clearance issues!! And head snapping off aluminum bolts to boot. What I wouldn't give to slap a Bavarian engineer.

Today, after I replaced the lexus starter, I removed the engine from an 04 Subaru outback, re-sealed (heads and all) and put it back in. Burning gas by 6 pm. I'm no slouch. Been doing this all my life. If you doubt me, come on down to KCMO and I'll teach you how to do it correctly.