No start condition 2000 lS400, some analysis done, what next?
#1
No start condition 2000 lS400, some analysis done, what next?
History: 2000 LS400 with about 180k miles. Purchased at 150k and changed sparked plugs and cleaned throttle body and swapped out an 02 sensor at that time. Been running fine for 30k miles with no problems.Current condition: No start in the garage. Traveled to work and back fine Monday before Thanksgiving. Parked for a few days. Started up on Friday and had severe engine shake, turned off immediately. Checked on Saturday and currently have a no start. Cranks fine with plenty of power, but will not catch.Initial analysis:
Looking for the forums wisdom and experience before I tear the back seat out and check the fuel pump.
Are there any other relays/switches/controls I can check first? If so, where are they?
Thanks.
- Battery shows nearly 13 volts, terminals clean.
- · No codes being provided by ECM
- · Found spark on driver side front COP
- · Pulled Fuel pump relay and bridged pins 3 and 4 … no change.
- · All other fuses in the engine fuse box check out OK
- · Cannot hear fuel enter the fuel rail and no Schrader valve on the rail to easily check
Looking for the forums wisdom and experience before I tear the back seat out and check the fuel pump.
Are there any other relays/switches/controls I can check first? If so, where are they?
Thanks.
#2
I'd try the starting fluid removing one of vacuum hoses to intake manifolds.
If it works, I'll check the Circuit Opening Relay before checking the fuel pump. Sometimes a dead AFM causes your type of problem though.
If it works, I'll check the Circuit Opening Relay before checking the fuel pump. Sometimes a dead AFM causes your type of problem though.
Last edited by Yamae; 11-28-16 at 07:46 AM.
#3
To check fuel pump power, remove trunk liner facing rear seats - it's the grey plug IIRC. You could also boost it for a very short duration to listen for operation. It's audible from inside the trunk.
Last edited by M4rk; 11-28-16 at 04:04 PM.
#5
Any idea the condition & age of the timing belt if its still intact? It would run rough and die if the belt lost some teeth.
Hopefully this isnt the case... interference engine and all.
I would remove the spark covers and visually inspect the timing belt before you crank on it any more.
Hopefully this isnt the case... interference engine and all.
I would remove the spark covers and visually inspect the timing belt before you crank on it any more.
#6
Thanks everyone for your inputs and inquiries. I will get to the bottom of this. Fortunately have a spare car so no time pressure to get on the road quickly.
Yes, it ran for 30k miles after I did the original work so don't think that's the problem.
Essentially, the vehicle has been running fine for months and then all of a sudden would not start after parking in the garage, where it's always parked. Kind of quit working all on it's own accord without me touching it.
Tried the starting fluid this AM, but could not get enough into any vacuum opening to do any good.
MAF sensor is too close to ABS and can't get the can in there upright to spray.
Timing belt really should be OK as was changed out post 100k miles, just can't remember the exact miles. But can't rule it out.
Oil is good level and color and change out regularly with synthetic.
Gas is 1/2 tank and the gage has and is still working. Range indicated on computer is consistent with gas level.
Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and was not covered in oil, like from a leaking cam seal. Swapped out the sensor and no difference.
Yes, getting power to the fuel pump to see if it powers up would be useful. I'll look for access as described above.
Plan on pulling the air duct off the throttle body tonight and spraying directly past the butterfly...and insure butterfly operation at the same time. Will let you know the results.
Thinking if that does not start and run... then I need to re-think my options.
Yes, it ran for 30k miles after I did the original work so don't think that's the problem.
Essentially, the vehicle has been running fine for months and then all of a sudden would not start after parking in the garage, where it's always parked. Kind of quit working all on it's own accord without me touching it.
Tried the starting fluid this AM, but could not get enough into any vacuum opening to do any good.
MAF sensor is too close to ABS and can't get the can in there upright to spray.
Timing belt really should be OK as was changed out post 100k miles, just can't remember the exact miles. But can't rule it out.
Oil is good level and color and change out regularly with synthetic.
Gas is 1/2 tank and the gage has and is still working. Range indicated on computer is consistent with gas level.
Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and was not covered in oil, like from a leaking cam seal. Swapped out the sensor and no difference.
Yes, getting power to the fuel pump to see if it powers up would be useful. I'll look for access as described above.
Plan on pulling the air duct off the throttle body tonight and spraying directly past the butterfly...and insure butterfly operation at the same time. Will let you know the results.
Thinking if that does not start and run... then I need to re-think my options.
#7
Thanks everyone for your inputs and inquiries. I will get to the bottom of this. Fortunately have a spare car so no time pressure to get on the road quickly.
Yes, it ran for 30k miles after I did the original work so don't think that's the problem.
Essentially, the vehicle has been running fine for months and then all of a sudden would not start after parking in the garage, where it's always parked. Kind of quit working all on it's own accord without me touching it.
Tried the starting fluid this AM, but could not get enough into any vacuum opening to do any good.
MAF sensor is too close to ABS and can't get the can in there upright to spray.
Timing belt really should be OK as was changed out post 100k miles, just can't remember the exact miles. But can't rule it out.
Oil is good level and color and change out regularly with synthetic.
Gas is 1/2 tank and the gage has and is still working. Range indicated on computer is consistent with gas level.
Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and was not covered in oil, like from a leaking cam seal. Swapped out the sensor and no difference.
Yes, getting power to the fuel pump to see if it powers up would be useful. I'll look for access as described above.
Plan on pulling the air duct off the throttle body tonight and spraying directly past the butterfly...and insure butterfly operation at the same time. Will let you know the results.
Thinking if that does not start and run... then I need to re-think my options.
Yes, it ran for 30k miles after I did the original work so don't think that's the problem.
Essentially, the vehicle has been running fine for months and then all of a sudden would not start after parking in the garage, where it's always parked. Kind of quit working all on it's own accord without me touching it.
Tried the starting fluid this AM, but could not get enough into any vacuum opening to do any good.
MAF sensor is too close to ABS and can't get the can in there upright to spray.
Timing belt really should be OK as was changed out post 100k miles, just can't remember the exact miles. But can't rule it out.
Oil is good level and color and change out regularly with synthetic.
Gas is 1/2 tank and the gage has and is still working. Range indicated on computer is consistent with gas level.
Pulled the crankshaft position sensor and was not covered in oil, like from a leaking cam seal. Swapped out the sensor and no difference.
Yes, getting power to the fuel pump to see if it powers up would be useful. I'll look for access as described above.
Plan on pulling the air duct off the throttle body tonight and spraying directly past the butterfly...and insure butterfly operation at the same time. Will let you know the results.
Thinking if that does not start and run... then I need to re-think my options.
A few thoughts :
Starting fluid at the TB works fine.
If the ether doesn't produce results, then you have two possibilities; no spark, or gross timing error. Be sure your key still has the remote module in it----I actually had it fall out once and land on the floorboard, and it caused a crank-but-no start condition just like yours! If you have a spare key, give it a try.
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#8
Well...starting fluid in the throttle body did not produce anything more than starter cranking. Not even a hint of wanting to catch.
Interesting that the butterfly does not open when cranking, so opened it up and sprayed it in, then attempted to start. And also held it open while starting and sprayed at the same time. Same results both ways. Still a no start condition.
I have produced the spark using a screwdriver in the first plug on the driver's side, but did not check the rest of the COPs.
There is a spare key so we can try that... but it did start once with this key, but ran very rough and then we just shut it down. Since that attempt it has not even acted like it wanted to start.
Interesting that the butterfly does not open when cranking, so opened it up and sprayed it in, then attempted to start. And also held it open while starting and sprayed at the same time. Same results both ways. Still a no start condition.
I have produced the spark using a screwdriver in the first plug on the driver's side, but did not check the rest of the COPs.
There is a spare key so we can try that... but it did start once with this key, but ran very rough and then we just shut it down. Since that attempt it has not even acted like it wanted to start.
Last edited by Legender; 12-02-16 at 06:11 AM.
#9
Its time for a good scan tool to check things out. Could be a CAN problem, could be a sensor problem, could be a mechanical problem. All just guess work on a computer miles away. You need the info in the shop manual, the trouble shooting guide would be helpful.
Signals need to be checked.
Signals need to be checked.
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